Help Me Care About Fictional Leagues And Players!

GoBucsGo · 06-11-2014, 03:43 PM

Hi all, i'll preface by saying this. I love the concept behind fictional leagues, I love the countless number of possibilities that you can do just to set up a fictional league, it's brilliant for the creative mind.

My problem is, I have trouble caring about guys and teams who I know are fake. I'll try and play out a season or a few, and I just find myself bored because I don't care about who any of the players in the league are.

The reason I love the MLB games is because I know these players, I have a sort of connection with them. Signing that old vet to give him one more run at a championship he never got is awesome to me because I want the same thing to be happening in real life. Real world games give my players a sense of personality, a sense of knowing.

My request to you fictional league guys is to help me stick to a fictional league. What do you do? What are some tips to actually care about the players in the league and what's going on? Basically, how do you make it interesting?

Mike45 · 06-11-2014, 03:47 PM

I would agree 100% with that post. I have come up with tons of ideas for leagues (world league. multiple "professional" leagues with players co-mingling. The evolution of baseball, with fake teams and players. Etc)...and in the end, I always turn back to historical leagues for the same reasons mentioned above. But there are some truly amazing fictional leagues/dynasties out there. So I would be interested in the responses as well

andjbock · 06-11-2014, 03:59 PM

I use fictional players, but use a regular MLB-style setup. I play as the Red Sox, who I root for in real life, which initially helped me.

One thing you could do is to simulate 10 seasons. This way it builds a little history, and you see who the superstars are right off the bat, and don't have make them.

My laptop was stolen in March, so I lost a 20-year league, where I had played out every game, but it easy for me to get back in the grove, since I still had my team, just new players.

GoBucsGo · 06-11-2014, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andjbock

I use fictional players, but use a regular MLB-style setup. I play as the Red Sox, who I root for in real life, which initially helped me.

One thing you could do is to simulate 10 seasons. This way it builds a little history, and you see who the superstars are right off the bat, and don't have make them.

My laptop was stolen in March, so I lost a 20-year league, where I had played out every game, but it easy for me to get back in the grove, since I still had my team, just new players.

Iv'e also debated doing that. Just using real teams and a real life MLB set up with just fictional players. It's a great idea and I'll put it on the list.

Andy · 06-11-2014, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoBucsGo

Iv'e also debated doing that. Just using real teams and a real life MLB set up with just fictional players. It's a great idea and I'll put it on the list.

Yeah, that's what I do.

Matt Arnold · 06-11-2014, 04:38 PM

I think I would have trouble "jumping in" to a fictional league. However, I have absolutely no trouble starting a modern day game, and then eventually the fictional players take over. I enjoy playing a league out past the point where the last player who is a current prospect retires, since when you play out season by season, you build a new history. Like in my current game, my team is headlined by Brett Lawrie, Chase Vallot, and Roberto Osuna, one player who's currently in MLB, my first first round draft pick, and a prospect from my system. But I know that in the next year or 2, one of my stars will be a fictional player that was drafted in year 2-3 of my league. And in 5 or 10 years, maybe Lawrie will be gone, and I won't have any current Blue Jays on the roster. But since I've now drafted and developed him, Vallot is a home-grown player. When in 15 years he's a 38 year old vet on his last legs, I'll have a hard time letting him walk away, especially if he keeps hitting HRs and starts to chase team or league records. Of course, the problem with him is that he came from my first draft, so he feels "fictional" to me. But since I see him actually drafted in real life, it's always a bit confusing. "What do you mean he's not a premium talent? He hit 400 HRs for me!"

So as long as I grow with the players, I can still feel that connection. One thing that may help is if you want to short-circuit the beginning, you can always start with a modern (or historical) league, adapt the settings, teams, divisions, etc... as desired, but then have new players be fictional. Sim ahead, and you may have a mix of old-time players in the league to have that connection to, along with a new crop of young fictional players who have some history. Then as you go forward, the balance will shift, but you'll very soon become more familar with your new rookies than the old guys.

RchW · 06-11-2014, 04:48 PM

I grow very attached to my fictional players. The league set up doesn't matter though I currently run modern day MLB leagues.

My problem is the opposite, can't stand seeing a name I know in an unfamiliar spot. I stopped playing a historical league when DiMaggio became a reserve LF on Philadelphia. A fictional version of that set up was fine.

The Game · 06-11-2014, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoBucsGo

Hi all, i'll preface by saying this. I love the concept behind fictional leagues, I love the countless number of possibilities that you can do just to set up a fictional league, it's brilliant for the creative mind.

My problem is, I have trouble caring about guys and teams who I know are fake. I'll try and play out a season or a few, and I just find myself bored because I don't care about who any of the players in the league are.

The reason I love the MLB games is because I know these players, I have a sort of connection with them. Signing that old vet to give him one more run at a championship he never got is awesome to me because I want the same thing to be happening in real life. Real world games give my players a sense of personality, a sense of knowing.

My request to you fictional league guys is to help me stick to a fictional league. What do you do? What are some tips to actually care about the players in the league and what's going on? Basically, how do you make it interesting?

i have had 2 fictional leagues that i love. The EBL vs MLB which dates back to the 80's and i have been doing a fictional historical replay & the ABF which the original version starts in 2000 and some of the players are actual; people. namely friends.
I'll add more to this later.

Edit: Now that i am feeling better (i have strep throat) i will add to this. For my EBL vs mLb what keeps me interested is seeing whgat the players did on other games like Hardball 3 Tony La Russa 3 and High Heat compared to OOTP. i should have more HOFers after 17 seasons. most oif the HOF classes will be weak the next 3-4 seasons. Seeing how good the Ford Thunderbirds, the team i manage 2020-2025, will actually be.Seeing if Sony will win only 8 games in 2022 again.
For my ABF the league has many people that i know IRL. my best friend and people i met each year basically 1994 - 2014. i clone a former MLB player for them. my buddy alfredo is Alex Fernandez, my nephew is Aramis Ramirez, my buddy kevin is Eric karros. someone who i know from the boards is Eddie collins. 16 team league real cities with cool names. chicago Fire, Boston Fightin' irish, cleveland Rockers, San diego seals, houston Colt .45's to name a few.
i am redoing this league starting in 1876 and simming to 2000 when i came into the league.
To me i feel when i play with real players i have too many expectations of what they should do

check out my EBL vs MLB league
http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...12-beyond.html

madJ · 06-11-2014, 04:53 PM

I built a league rather randomly and gave every team a nice looking logo and a jersey for the facegen part. I even did that with the minor league teams. Good looking logos and jerseys help me to get immersed.

Then I looked over the rosters of the teams and picked the team I liked most. But when I took over the team, I moved it to a city I can somehow relate to. I also changed the name of the team to something that fits the city.

To relate to the fictional players I play out every inning of every game. I also write a recap of every game after it is finished. Those recaps are biased towards the team I manage, though.

Trebro · 06-11-2014, 05:33 PM

It's funny, because after not being too sure about doing something with fictional players (and admittedly, I will be importing some historical players here and there), I quickly fell in love with the idea!

Now I prefer to be commish only, so take that in advisement.

What I did was pick out the top players every year and keep track of them. So now, six years in, I have a strong "rivalry" between two players who ended up on the same team for a bit, and I started thinking about the story behind how that might play out. Similarly, I like to watch how the folks who won Rookie of the Year do. Were they a fluke? Or a new star? Does a guy who hits for average rise and fall as the stats league-wide adjust? Who crashed after age 30? Who took time off to try and get a higher deal?

My next project was going to be a historical fictional hybrid, but now that I've seen how much fun and engaging fictional is--because no one comes with any expectations--I may only play fictional from here on out!

For me, because I don't follow MLB closely anymore, the names aren't of much importance. Seeing career stats and the ebb and flow is, and fictional is perfect for that, IMO, now that I've tried it!

David Watts · 06-11-2014, 05:48 PM

I would recommend starting small. Maybe try a 8 team 1 subleague 2 divisions setup to start. This will be easily expandable to 10,12,14 etc with OOTP schedules available. Pick a team and play out the games. A small setup means facing the same players over and over.

Fyrestorm3 · 06-11-2014, 07:23 PM

Interestingly, I have the exact opposite issue: I can't bring myself to get invested in historical and/or current-day players because the parallel-universe aspect is weird to me. But fictional leagues are a blank slate; there's no preconception as to how a team or player should perform (the Yankees in last place for two years running? Preposterous!), there's no worries with getting "realistic" league totals (my current league is trending towards hitting, with someone going 5-5 at least twice a week, and I'm letting it go that way), and there's no pre-existing repertoire with the players that could be shattered (Derek Jeter being traded, for example). Even though my current "favorite" league is an MLB setup, it's far enough into the future where it's almost entirely fictional players, save for a few old vets here and there. I could never think of playing the game any other way; I don't get invested UNLESS it's fictional.

Basically, I wouldn't worry about it. If you aren't ensnared by the allure of fictional leagues, then just play historical. As goes the motto of the forums, it's your game, play it your way. BUT if you definitely want to give it a shot, then you've got to stick to it. Don't just play three seasons and get discouraged. The reason you're attached to the MLB is because it has a history and a story. Give that to your league. Let it run for 15, 20, 25 years. Write seasons-in-review, or championship game summaries. Give it life. Make it real. And then take over a team you've been following, one that appeals to you, and play out games rather than sim.

That last part is key - there's nothing wrong with simming through seasons, if that's how you like to play, but the best way to get attached to your club is to experience all the ups and downs alongside the players. Don't be afraid to get excited, either. I tend to cheer out loud if I experience a huge comeback or an exciting win, and I keep a Word document full of written recaps of my favorite moments, so that I can relive them just like a highlight reel in real life. Whatever you have to do to make your league "real" to you, do it. Never underestimate the power of immersion.

curt · 06-11-2014, 07:26 PM

I have been doing a fictional league for two years now. I started with an initial draft and away I went. I take pride in being able to pick players around the style of the team I wanted to build. My team finished with a wildcard spot and unfortunately lost. That was after holding down first place all year and slumping in September and finishing 2nd in my division. The point is, its MY team, I picked it and nurtured/developed it and watched it excel. I have tried MLB teams and was always frustrated with playing and watching my players underperforming or not matching their current MLB stats. Injuries of my MLB players also bothered me especially if they weren't injured in the real life. The beauty of OOTP is we can all pick what delights us the most.

ghostrobot · 06-11-2014, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Watts

I would recommend starting small. Maybe try a 8 team 1 subleague 2 divisions setup to start. This will be easily expandable to 10,12,14 etc with OOTP schedules available. Pick a team and play out the games. A small setup means facing the same players over and over.

This is exactly how I was able to get heavily invested in my fictional league. I started with 6 teams in each league and simulated the first 10 or 12 years before I expanded. When I would simulate, I'd go month by month so that I could read the league news and start to see which players were in the headlines over and over again. At the end of every season, after checking out the league leaders, I would visit all of the team's homepages so that I could get familiar with some of the core players on the stronger teams. After the first decade or so, I'd also check out the all time hitting and pitching records for each team. It definitely takes some time to do all of this. I suppose you could just simulate straight through 10-12 years and then check out the records just as well, but when I've done that, it never felt like I was really getting to know the ins and outs of the entire league.

I started my current fictional league like this and I've since expanded a couple of times, moved west, relocated teams, etc. My league is approaching the 50 year mark and I feel really invested in not just my team, but the league as a whole.

Hope you find a way to make it work for you.

Tram2Whitaker · 06-11-2014, 08:55 PM

My thing is, that my league is basically fictional, except for teams (although with the latest MLB drama, that's history) and history. I start with a team ( I prefer middle sized markets), and I trade away all their "stars" for prospects; I don't even get invested in the team, until the entire roster is turned over (which usually takes about 3 years), and I'll stick with it for 20 or so years when all the current players are retired. At that point, the game usually starts bugging out on me.

The problem I've had with fictional leagues is that they never work the way I intend. A game I started with a beginning date of 1901, with 8 regional 8 team leagues, and then simulated 112 years with evolution to build history. Problem #1, they always, no matter which region the league is based in, expand to Los Angeles and Houston; ALWAYS. Their minor leagues are worse. My limited knowledge of international geography makes an international game a novel idea at first, but impractical in long term application.

olivertheorem · 06-11-2014, 09:31 PM

What's helped me finally get into a fictional league is doing a dynasty on it. I'm just watching it go, simming a week at a time, looking at the players of the week (at all levels), picking all-stars (and eventually award winners). That way I see the names and I start to remember them after a while. When I write my dynasty posts, I tweak the in-game news stories a bit to give the players a bit more personality.

The Wolf · 06-11-2014, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike45

I would agree 100% with that post. I have come up with tons of ideas for leagues (world league. multiple "professional" leagues with players co-mingling. The evolution of baseball, with fake teams and players. Etc)...and in the end, I always turn back to historical leagues for the same reasons mentioned above. But there are some truly amazing fictional leagues/dynasties out there. So I would be interested in the responses as well

This, pretty much exactly.

The Wolf · 06-11-2014, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by curt

The beauty of OOTP is we can all pick what delights us the most.

Exactly. There are a million ways to play, and one of them is the one that's the most fun for you. And everyone else's way will be different than yours. And none of them are wrong.

ukhotstove · 06-12-2014, 08:44 AM

Like many have stated it's down to each players tastes, I personally can't get into real or historical leagues as I like to write back stories about the players, something you can't do with real players. Concerning the op I'd go with a small league, bare bones and turn evolution on. I'd also go with teams from your location, same with the nicknames use what's local to you.

rpriske · 06-12-2014, 09:17 AM

If you have trouble getting interested in fictional players, then don't use them.

There is no advantage in using fictional players if you prefer real players (as I do).

The reverse is also true. Do what you like.

06-11-2014, 04:48 PM	#7
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	I grow very attached to my fictional players. The league set up doesn't matter though I currently run modern day MLB leagues. My problem is the opposite, can't stand seeing a name I know in an unfamiliar spot. I stopped playing a historical league when DiMaggio became a reserve LF on Philadelphia. A fictional version of that set up was fine. __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

06-11-2014, 07:23 PM	#12
Fyrestorm3 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Tampa Bay, Massachusetts Posts: 2,928	Interestingly, I have the exact opposite issue: I can't bring myself to get invested in historical and/or current-day players because the parallel-universe aspect is weird to me. But fictional leagues are a blank slate; there's no preconception as to how a team or player should perform (the Yankees in last place for two years running? Preposterous!), there's no worries with getting "realistic" league totals (my current league is trending towards hitting, with someone going 5-5 at least twice a week, and I'm letting it go that way), and there's no pre-existing repertoire with the players that could be shattered (Derek Jeter being traded, for example). Even though my current "favorite" league is an MLB setup, it's far enough into the future where it's almost entirely fictional players, save for a few old vets here and there. I could never think of playing the game any other way; I don't get invested UNLESS it's fictional. Basically, I wouldn't worry about it. If you aren't ensnared by the allure of fictional leagues, then just play historical. As goes the motto of the forums, it's your game, play it your way. BUT if you definitely want to give it a shot, then you've got to stick to it. Don't just play three seasons and get discouraged. The reason you're attached to the MLB is because it has a history and a story. Give that to your league. Let it run for 15, 20, 25 years. Write seasons-in-review, or championship game summaries. Give it life. Make it real. And then take over a team you've been following, one that appeals to you, and play out games rather than sim. That last part is key - there's nothing wrong with simming through seasons, if that's how you like to play, but the best way to get attached to your club is to experience all the ups and downs alongside the players. Don't be afraid to get excited, either. I tend to cheer out loud if I experience a huge comeback or an exciting win, and I keep a Word document full of written recaps of my favorite moments, so that I can relive them just like a highlight reel in real life. Whatever you have to do to make your league "real" to you, do it. Never underestimate the power of immersion. __________________ Jersey Template (Photoshop) \| Cap Template (Photoshop)

06-11-2014, 08:55 PM	#15
Tram2Whitaker All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 619	My thing is, that my league is basically fictional, except for teams (although with the latest MLB drama, that's history) and history. I start with a team ( I prefer middle sized markets), and I trade away all their "stars" for prospects; I don't even get invested in the team, until the entire roster is turned over (which usually takes about 3 years), and I'll stick with it for 20 or so years when all the current players are retired. At that point, the game usually starts bugging out on me. The problem I've had with fictional leagues is that they never work the way I intend. A game I started with a beginning date of 1901, with 8 regional 8 team leagues, and then simulated 112 years with evolution to build history. Problem #1, they always, no matter which region the league is based in, expand to Los Angeles and Houston; ALWAYS. Their minor leagues are worse. My limited knowledge of international geography makes an international game a novel idea at first, but impractical in long term application. __________________ 404'd!

06-12-2014, 08:44 AM	#19
ukhotstove Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: North of England Gods Country Posts: 7,175	Like many have stated it's down to each players tastes, I personally can't get into real or historical leagues as I like to write back stories about the players, something you can't do with real players. Concerning the op I'd go with a small league, bare bones and turn evolution on. I'd also go with teams from your location, same with the nicknames use what's local to you. __________________ Detroit Diesel Dynasty San Antonio Calzones of Laredo Dynasty

06-12-2014, 09:17 AM	#20
rpriske Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Spencerville, ON, Canada Posts: 25,788	If you have trouble getting interested in fictional players, then don't use them. There is no advantage in using fictional players if you prefer real players (as I do). The reverse is also true. Do what you like. __________________ Rusty Priske Poet, Canadian, Baseball Fan ````````````````````````````````````````

06-11-2014, 03:43 PM	#1
GoBucsGo Banned Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 278 Infractions: 0/2 (4)	Help Me Care About Fictional Leagues And Players! Hi all, i'll preface by saying this. I love the concept behind fictional leagues, I love the countless number of possibilities that you can do just to set up a fictional league, it's brilliant for the creative mind. My problem is, I have trouble caring about guys and teams who I know are fake. I'll try and play out a season or a few, and I just find myself bored because I don't care about who any of the players in the league are. The reason I love the MLB games is because I know these players, I have a sort of connection with them. Signing that old vet to give him one more run at a championship he never got is awesome to me because I want the same thing to be happening in real life. Real world games give my players a sense of personality, a sense of knowing. My request to you fictional league guys is to help me stick to a fictional league. What do you do? What are some tips to actually care about the players in the league and what's going on? Basically, how do you make it interesting?

06-11-2014, 03:47 PM	#2
Mike45 Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 162	I would agree 100% with that post. I have come up with tons of ideas for leagues (world league. multiple "professional" leagues with players co-mingling. The evolution of baseball, with fake teams and players. Etc)...and in the end, I always turn back to historical leagues for the same reasons mentioned above. But there are some truly amazing fictional leagues/dynasties out there. So I would be interested in the responses as well

06-11-2014, 03:59 PM	#3
andjbock Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Somerville, MA, USA Bats: Right Throws: Left Posts: 3,636	I use fictional players, but use a regular MLB-style setup. I play as the Red Sox, who I root for in real life, which initially helped me. One thing you could do is to simulate 10 seasons. This way it builds a little history, and you see who the superstars are right off the bat, and don't have make them. My laptop was stolen in March, so I lost a 20-year league, where I had played out every game, but it easy for me to get back in the grove, since I still had my team, just new players.

06-11-2014, 04:38 PM	#6
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 15,658	I think I would have trouble "jumping in" to a fictional league. However, I have absolutely no trouble starting a modern day game, and then eventually the fictional players take over. I enjoy playing a league out past the point where the last player who is a current prospect retires, since when you play out season by season, you build a new history. Like in my current game, my team is headlined by Brett Lawrie, Chase Vallot, and Roberto Osuna, one player who's currently in MLB, my first first round draft pick, and a prospect from my system. But I know that in the next year or 2, one of my stars will be a fictional player that was drafted in year 2-3 of my league. And in 5 or 10 years, maybe Lawrie will be gone, and I won't have any current Blue Jays on the roster. But since I've now drafted and developed him, Vallot is a home-grown player. When in 15 years he's a 38 year old vet on his last legs, I'll have a hard time letting him walk away, especially if he keeps hitting HRs and starts to chase team or league records. Of course, the problem with him is that he came from my first draft, so he feels "fictional" to me. But since I see him actually drafted in real life, it's always a bit confusing. "What do you mean he's not a premium talent? He hit 400 HRs for me!" So as long as I grow with the players, I can still feel that connection. One thing that may help is if you want to short-circuit the beginning, you can always start with a modern (or historical) league, adapt the settings, teams, divisions, etc... as desired, but then have new players be fictional. Sim ahead, and you may have a mix of old-time players in the league to have that connection to, along with a new crop of young fictional players who have some history. Then as you go forward, the balance will shift, but you'll very soon become more familar with your new rookies than the old guys.

06-11-2014, 04:53 PM	#9
madJ Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 361	I built a league rather randomly and gave every team a nice looking logo and a jersey for the facegen part. I even did that with the minor league teams. Good looking logos and jerseys help me to get immersed. Then I looked over the rosters of the teams and picked the team I liked most. But when I took over the team, I moved it to a city I can somehow relate to. I also changed the name of the team to something that fits the city. To relate to the fictional players I play out every inning of every game. I also write a recap of every game after it is finished. Those recaps are biased towards the team I manage, though.

06-11-2014, 05:33 PM	#10
Trebro All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 753	It's funny, because after not being too sure about doing something with fictional players (and admittedly, I will be importing some historical players here and there), I quickly fell in love with the idea! Now I prefer to be commish only, so take that in advisement. What I did was pick out the top players every year and keep track of them. So now, six years in, I have a strong "rivalry" between two players who ended up on the same team for a bit, and I started thinking about the story behind how that might play out. Similarly, I like to watch how the folks who won Rookie of the Year do. Were they a fluke? Or a new star? Does a guy who hits for average rise and fall as the stats league-wide adjust? Who crashed after age 30? Who took time off to try and get a higher deal? My next project was going to be a historical fictional hybrid, but now that I've seen how much fun and engaging fictional is--because no one comes with any expectations--I may only play fictional from here on out! For me, because I don't follow MLB closely anymore, the names aren't of much importance. Seeing career stats and the ebb and flow is, and fictional is perfect for that, IMO, now that I've tried it!

06-11-2014, 05:48 PM	#11
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 9,584 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	I would recommend starting small. Maybe try a 8 team 1 subleague 2 divisions setup to start. This will be easily expandable to 10,12,14 etc with OOTP schedules available. Pick a team and play out the games. A small setup means facing the same players over and over.

06-11-2014, 07:26 PM	#13
curt Major Leagues Join Date: May 2013 Location: Winnipeg, Canada Posts: 465	I have been doing a fictional league for two years now. I started with an initial draft and away I went. I take pride in being able to pick players around the style of the team I wanted to build. My team finished with a wildcard spot and unfortunately lost. That was after holding down first place all year and slumping in September and finishing 2nd in my division. The point is, its MY team, I picked it and nurtured/developed it and watched it excel. I have tried MLB teams and was always frustrated with playing and watching my players underperforming or not matching their current MLB stats. Injuries of my MLB players also bothered me especially if they weren't injured in the real life. The beauty of OOTP is we can all pick what delights us the most.

06-11-2014, 09:31 PM	#16
olivertheorem All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,919	What's helped me finally get into a fictional league is doing a dynasty on it. I'm just watching it go, simming a week at a time, looking at the players of the week (at all levels), picking all-stars (and eventually award winners). That way I see the names and I start to remember them after a while. When I write my dynasty posts, I tweak the in-game news stories a bit to give the players a bit more personality.