Thoughts - Suggestions - from a member here since 2001

[Squonk]

..

Hi Guys ..

Old timer here that doesn't say much at all. I have a total of 47 posts in 13 years. I try to be the exact opposite of what you see on so many other boards. I sit and read these forums and enjoy them a great deal. I learn a lot by staying quiet. Obviously, being around for a decade and a third here .. I'm an older guy (47). So, I'm not trollin' ya, I ain't a kid and I speak from the heart.

I have a great wealth of baseball knowledge that I have gathered throughout the years as a professional sports broadcaster. I have a philosophy that I believe creates winning baseball. I implement my philosophy and test it against the OOTP engine to see if I am right. Last evening, I finished my year long testing using OOTP 14.



I actually founded Sundown Baseball .. which was the very FIRST online league using OOTP. Markus was a great help and supplied me with one of my most satisfying professional experiences. I would say to Markus "What we need in Sundown is .. " And the next day he would send me a new build of exactly what I said. And this continued on and on and it was a great feeling. I even made the credits! That's a big thing for a guy like me. That was a long time ago. I ran it for several years as commissioner and a great time was had by all. Very intense league, we had PC Gamer journalists and Markus and Steve and the lead programmer to the old Front Page Sports Baseball Pro 98 game. We even had Shaun Sullivan in Sundown. I filled in the holes with various late night newscasters. morning disc jockeys and various sports voices around town. OOTP got a mention on television here in Cleveland back years ago when the evening anchor at the NBC affiliate won the championship one season. He just had to slip that graphic in at the end and show everybody. I got a big chuckle out of that and so did all the guys in the league. Yeah, Sundown baseball .. it was intense .. but more than that .. it was intensely fun.

Here's some of the things I did in the last year playing this game:

In my tests of OOTP 14, I came up with this high water mark in the Power Rankings I thought you guys might get a kick out of it and see if you could top it:



164.1 on that one.

Here's a special team I managed that won 28 in a row. That was a high water mark for me and thoroughly enjoyable:



This is the best season score that I ever achieved .. 194:



OOTP14 represented the first time I had bought the game in several years. I enjoyed it so thoroughly that I thought .. maybe .. if somebody had a very well organized and well managed online league, maybe I would buy OOTP15 and play with some of you guys. I even toyed around and thought about resurrecting the vanguard "Sundown Baseball" but that's a lot to live up to. I don't know whether .. it's very intimidating to mess with that name. I remember, since I was Commissioner, I used to do play-by-play live for the All-Star and Playoff games over the Internet for all the guys. Broadcasting to 30 guys .. my lowest audience ever but I tried so very hard because of who those 20 guys were. It's very time consuming to do it right. But .. if ya wanna talk about an online league .. I'll listen. It is the time of year for resurrections, isn't it? I dunno.

Or maybe I'll just fade back in to the background and sit quietly again and just read the forums like I have been doing for so many years.

A few thoughts for the team that I jotted down .. hoping to help .. hoping to make the game a little better:

- Many times when managing the games, I see too far too many doubles with two outs and a man on first .. and the runner only goes to third. I understand all the parameters involved and such but one of the reasons I posted those things above is so that you would see that I have a very, very deep understanding of baseball honed by decades and decades of my job. Trust me when I tell you, these are things to be looked at for an authentic baseball simulation. I won't go in to numbers upon numbers upon numbers but .. trust me .. two outs, guy on first, if it's a double .. guy's gonna score .. just the way it is. Doesn't happen enough.

- There's way too many instances of a 12 CON 5 POW hitter going 3 for 3. It's just something you need to look at. There's some parameter in the code about "a surprising performance at the plate tonight by .. " that is way, way overheated. Trust me .. look at all the seasons I just did. This is an issue.

- There's an issue with Control ratings for pitchers. 87+ and they walk .. walk .. walk guys in innings. I know it happens but I'm talking, again, over all of the seasons you see above. If a guy has more than 87 control .. that just isn't gonna happen more than once or twice in a season. Something is wrong there. Also, if a catcher has a 100 ARM .. his throwing errors should be MUCH lower. I take the 100 ARM rating as meaning "as good as it gets throwing runners out". I'm not talking perfect season kinda stuff. There's just too many throwing errors for those guys. It's not authentic.

- Markus explained to me many years ago that you can bust any trade AI if you work at it long enough. And it's absolutely true. You have to have house rules and stay true to them .. and to your philosophy of winning baseball. However, I have to point out that way too many guys hitting .344 in a season get traded for a guy hitting .268. I understand all the parameters that can shift these things .. with the salaries and all and age .. it was just something I saw on regular occasion in OOTP 14.

- There's a pretty harsh AI cheat that goes on in "big series" .. like the ALCS or World Series. Such as: If you add up the CON and POW numbers of the two teams .. one team will have TWO AND A HALF times the amount than the other team. Yet, there seems to be the inverse effect. When you are a human and you are playing the AI .. it's really, REALLY harsh. This point could be construed as "Hey, it's a tough game .. especially if you want to win a World Series Championship". If you look above, I won 12 World Series titles in 20 years so .. I get it. I'm just telling you what I saw in this test of the engine from an old timer. Maybe some other folks haven't been at this as long or .. maybe they don't have as deep an understanding of the game. It might put them off.

- With rain delays when managing games .. if the rain delay goes 50 minutes .. you're not going to send your starting pitcher back out there unless it was extraordinary circumstances. It's just the way MLB is played. That's probably something that could add authenticity to the game if it is looked at.

- The trade screen interface needs to be examined. It seems DOS based. You should be able to pop up a window to look at your lineup without losing everything in the trade screen by exiting out. In other words, a revised trade screen interface would allow you to have multiple windows open (with a re-sizing option to make as big or as small as you want) so you can identify the modified Sabermetrics you have as your bible .. and see how the trade might plug in to your philosophy of winning baseball.

- When you update and generate pictures on January 1st .. my God, man .. it took over my machine for 45 minutes. That just shouldn't happen with modern computers. You could plot a course to Alpha Centauri in 45 minutes. That programming code needs to be looked at, refined, streamlined and brought in to the year 2014.

- Many, many times you will call up your pitchers page and it will bring up a screen with all batting stats and ratings for the pitchers. There's no rhyme nor reason why this happens. It's random. Seems to be loose code or something. But it's maddening for the user. It's inconvenient the first 4,921 times it happens. After that, you begin to hate the game. Also, the position of the scroll is counter intuitive. Such as .. it always seems to be in the wrong place. It is always showing me the 23rd rated amateur pitcher or .. my 17th rated prospect .. it's just maddening and seems like an easy fix to be consistent to one spot or .. pitchers so you get pitcher's stats.

- Here in Cleveland, we had Carlos Santana this winter and spring learn a new position .. third base. He was previously a catcher. I think that should be represented better. Send a guy down and say "Learn this position. Play this position. Get good at it." Maybe he doesn't .. maybe he can't. Maybe he just needs another season at it .. or winter ball (like Santana) but .. this is something that happens and I don't really see a real valid way to make that plausible for OOTP without intense and constant tending of a minor league schedule of games. It should just be a check box option of some kind. "Teach this guy third base down there. Handle it".

I say all these things to try to HELP the game get better .. not to whine or criticize. If Markus remembers, this is the way we did things when the game started out .. now 15 seasons ago. So, don't think me negative.

NOW LISTEN .. if I have anybody's attention at the company at this point .. please deeply, deeply consider my next suggestion. I cannot STRESS this enough .. it is absolutely essential for the continued viability of your product in today's marketplace. It is, no less than, the logical next level for OOTP.

Maybe not next year .. but certainly no later than the year after that ..

Markus .. babe .. ya gotta have a graphical representation of the game of baseball. You absolutely have to do this.

Go license .. heck, we don't care .. license the X-Box 360 MLB game engine from 2008. Nobody is using it. Who cares? How expensive could it be? Then, use that game to lay over the top of OUT OF THE PARK BASEBALL.

You have to make something where .. we as the owners .. can draft and trade and sign and cut and arrange and THEN .. and THEN ..

We can sit back and watch our team. Watch on the field what we have assembled.

It doesn't have to be super cutting edge. Look at what we have now .. this is basically the same thing as when we were putting Sundown together all those years ago, Markus. It's BASICALLY .. the same .. thing. Ya gotta give us something to look at.

Just get some license from 2K Sports to use some old X-Box 360 game that nobody plays anymore and license that. It doesn't really matter that it isn't "State of the Art". Even Front Page Sports knew this way back. It was rudimentary but at least we could watch our team. So, that's gotta happen with Out of the Park Baseball. That's the next level. Make everything exactly the same as you have it now .. EVERYTHING .. the same .. just .. when you go to manage a game .. you can sit back from a decent perspective and watch the game. Not little baseballs that get bigger then smaller. It's 2015 next year. It should be this way and I think if I know you, you know this in your heart, Markus.

Now .. that being said ..

.. if .. if .. there is no way in your budget that you can possibly do this .. I have another idea.

Baseball and radio grew up together. Baseball was made for radio. And radio was CERTAINLY made for baseball. I am a professional radio broadcaster of 29 years. It would not be hard to make a very authentic sounding game on the radio in Out of the Park Baseball. I could show you how. BUT .. you would need to understand that this would take a great commitment of time and patience to get all of the sound effects and names and situations catalogued and sorted. But .. with today's technology .. it could be very, very good and very authentic sounding. But you would have to pay a pro announcer .. maybe two .. for a year's worth of work. And they would come in and read things and act out scenes for eight hours a day for close to a year to get this right. BUT .. once you got it .. and you got it catalogued and sorted .. you could have it forevermore. Trust me .. it's not that hard .. baseball is, basically, a simple game to call on radio. It would take planning. It would take script writers. It would take hired talent and audio engineers but .. this could also be the next step up for Out of the Park Baseball. And you would have it from now until eternity for every future version of OOTP. New versions would take 3 days for new names. That's it. That's all. Once you do it, and do it right, you would have it forevermore.

Just click a button and you tune in to the radio station that is going to broadcast your team's game tonight. And it sounds *PERFECT* .. exactly like the MLB broadcast down the dial. And probably better! Hell, with Bluetooth .. Do the yard work .. have a cold one and sit back on your porch on a warm summer night, listen to the game .. shoot a game of pool with the game on the radio .. it's just .. it's YOUR game of YOUR team .. in Out of the Park Baseball.

I think it's an idea that has legs. I really do.

So .. there ya go .. my take, my input. Take it for what ya paid for it.

As I said .. I'm undecided if I want to get in to OOTP 15 at this time. As you can see above, after all the time I put in to OOTP 14 .. if nobody approaches me about anything .. I will just fade back in to the woodwork for another few years. Silent and quietly reading the forums.

If that's the case .. enjoy, gentlemen .. and see you on down the road.

Sq

P.S. - Go Tribe

..

[bwburke94]

tl;dr: Wrong forum.

[Poweshow]

Pretentious

[Sludge]

For what it is worth, I looked at Padre's interviews and got an average age; 44.6.

As far as licensing, well, there's a problem. Control. Once you license with MLB and/or MLBPA, you now have a, not partner, but boss. It's that simple. They don't just license the logos and names, etc, and walk away. Everything will come under their approval. And, trust me, we don't want that.


Sludge

[Lucas718]

While I would like a full on-field game like The Show to be available for PC, I'm not sure I want OOTP to be that game. I've bought it since OOTP3 and have grown to love it the way it is. I'm sure a lot of others have too. I think it is a stretch to say that a graphical representation is "absolutely critical for the continued viability of the product". I don't think the game would have lasted through 15+ versions if this was true.

The radio thing, to me, sounds like one of those ideas that initially seems great. And then when you consider the amount of time and expense that would be required to pull something like that off, and do it so that it sounds natural and doesn't become repetitive, it just seems like a tremendous amount of work for something that I don't think a lot of people would use. Personally, I might give it a try but then I'd probably turn it off after a few games. I like to play my games out quickly and I see this as something that would drag a 15 minute game out to an hour or more as you constantly wait for the announcer to catch up to the action on the field.

I don't understand this point at all:

There's a pretty harsh AI cheat that goes on in "big series" .. like the ALCS or World Series. Such as: If you add up the CON and POW numbers of the two teams .. one team will have TWO AND A HALF times the amount than the other team.

Are you saying that one of the teams will have a drastic ratings change in the post-season?

[r0nster]

I been playing this since 2001 and in mid 40s and I love this game from the word go. I Markus wouldnt want to damage a great product by putting himself UNDER somebodies thumb. He is better off doing what he does best and thats bringing out the best product in this field. Would never want it to be tarnished by some bigwig out there who doesnt understand the consumers desires and not be in contact in with any of us like Markus is. Why ruin a good thing???

[DeViLzzz]

I agree with quite a bit of what the OP said and had typed out a nice response but lost it when trying to post it and was not logged in. :S

Anyway ... Yes to announcing for the game like APBA had with Ernie Harwell Broadcast Blast but they don't even have to get a big name. Just get someone that can do the job decently and professionally. Yes to some sort of graphical presentation and the more eye catchy the better although I would be happy with something even like MicroLeague Baseball did. LOL Eh yes to changing the deal with what happens with pitchers and rain delays but have them come back in late season situations with the playoffs on the line or if it is in the postseason. Yes to the idea that runners do need to score more on doubles or at least attempt to more often if there are 2 outs.

Nice post OP!

[le receveur]

However, I have to point out that way too many guys hitting .344 in a season get traded for a guy hitting .268

[saturn2187]

Originally Posted by Squonk

..


- Here in Cleveland, we had Carlos Santana this winter and spring learn a new position .. third base. He was previously a catcher. I think that should be represented better. Send a guy down and say "Learn this position. Play this position. Get good at it." Maybe he doesn't .. maybe he can't. Maybe he just needs another season at it .. or winter ball (like Santana) but .. this is something that happens and I don't really see a real valid way to make that plausible for OOTP without intense and constant tending of a minor league schedule of games. It should just be a check box option of some kind. "Teach this guy third base down there. Handle it".



..

This can be done already. Send a guy down and Force Start him at whatever position you want. Whether it's successful or not is determined by the player's attributes, but you shouldnt need to be toying with the minor league schedule.

As far as the graphics, was OP not aware that this was one of the biggest new features being released in OOTP15? Markus has said it's just the beginning to even bigger things.....

[Fyrestorm3]

I feel obligated to point out that in a game that offers full and total customization of player and team names, using pre-recorded audio just wouldn't work.

[rancer890]

- With rain delays when managing games .. if the rain delay goes 50 minutes .. you're not going to send your starting pitcher back out there unless it was extraordinary circumstances. It's just the way MLB is played. That's probably something that could add authenticity to the game if it is looked at.

It's already in the game (well in 15 at least). Had a 90 minute rain delay. My pitcher was exhausted after that and I had to replace him.

And we have graphical representation already with 3D ballparks. It's coming along slowly, but it's coming. And imo OOTP doesn't need MLB2K/MLBTS graphics. This is a simulator where you control the team at the end of the day. OOTP is going with the FM route where they're making their own 3D ME and will eventually had an engine similar to FM except with baseball.

And OOTP were under control for a bit (don't know the specifics), with SI/Sega.

[Eugene Church]

Thanks, Squonk for taking the time to share your thoughts on the great game of OOTPB.

I am 74 and I hope I live long enough to see my OOTPB players live and in person on the screen.

That is my ultimate dream.

[majesty95]

First, thank you for the post. It was nice to hear the point of view of someone with your experience!

I am kind of torn on the graphical part. Part of me remembers playing High Heat prior to OOTP and playing out every game as manager and just watching the guys play on the field. I also loved managing my system and rosters. So part of me thinks their is a 10-15 year younger version of me that would enjoy the same thing. On the other hand, do we want OOTP to become that experience as was mentioned before?

I think a far better option would be for OOTP to license the code to MLB the show or another developer if it creeps up. It wouldn't be as extensive as OOTP (which would keep OOTP as we know it in tact) but would allow another developer to deal with the MLB licensing and all their rules and regulations. They wouldn't be able to have the historical import due to licensing so OOTP gets to keep that, but they could use the coding for the present day game and add to it. There could even be a crossover where you could import the graphical game to OOTP or vice versa (the latter likely being much more challenging).

I do like the idea of the the radio announcer but I also agree that most of us sim the games or play them through quickly. So, I'm not sure the resources it would require would be worth it. However, ina partnership with a large developer, anything could happen.

Ultimately, I think 98% of us want to keep OOTP as close to what we have known since we joined the family so many years ago. I certainly understand needing to evolve and continue to grow your consumer base. But, I think staying true to what you are and finding alternative such as licensing out some of the code would be the best way to accomplish that.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by Poweshow

Pretentious

I think I agree. I did not like the tone of the OP. Frankly, it sounded patronizing and condescending at times.

[megamanmatt]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

I think I agree. I did not like the tone of the OP. Frankly, it sounded patronizing and condescending at times.

Odd choice of words... 'sounded'. Especially since as text it doesn't sound like a damn thing. Thus any sound you pull out of it is completely and totally of your own mental fabrication. If we're going to share things we don't like however I'd like to point out I'm not a fan of jumping on a guy for sharing his opinion because of their own imagined slights or inability to read anything longer than a paragraph. If we're sharing that is.....

[Carlton]

Originally Posted by Sludge

For what it is worth, I looked at Padre's interviews and got an average age; 44.6.

As far as licensing, well, there's a problem. Control. Once you license with MLB and/or MLBPA, you now have a, not partner, but boss. It's that simple. They don't just license the logos and names, etc, and walk away. Everything will come under their approval. And, trust me, we don't want that.

Damn you and your Comic sans

But you are 101% correct, anyone who has played a console game knows the ludicrous rating systems MLPA demands, AND minor leaguers are a no go, because they don't pay into the union,and the union doesn't get $$$ from them

Screw licensing

As for OP, I will put my voice out there to do the Pbp cheaply, I've done some podcasting and more importantly, my voice is butter

[24Rocks]

Well most of you remember we did Partner with Sports Interactive for a while, I know from 6.5 to 7 was a totally redesigned game but we broke that partnership and have still thrived on our own and as a community.

Now for the suggestions and stuff yes there's a lot of weird things that happen after a while like 4 prospects for a 38 year-old player who should be traded for one but nothings perfect. The position changes as you should know if you have been around since the start in 6 and 6.5 you could play a guy at 2b to make him learn it and if he didn't it would tell you or a position wouldn't show and there is a option force start at 3B that's what they did with Carlos and that's what ST is for.
For me i played Triple play baseball, MLB The Show, And high Heat for play station if I want to see my team, yes it would be fun to have my game broadcast but ME Personally i'm a simmer in till the playoffs it would be lost feature mostly. I don't use game sound or ball display but I do try everything but that stuff wasn't my forte ()

Now with other things its called the back button, I have had trades and gone and looked at a few things but gone back and finished up the deal and the worst is manual voting for awards and all-star I realized early on that if I just went back I wouldn't lose what I did.

The hitter comment 12 con 5 power well if he has good eye its very possible and good seasons happen when the numbers roll your way, and this new option of relative ratings would have saved me a 2 yer deal to a 39 Gold glove shortstop who was really good but after the deal hit .220 13/63 and next season .197 9/49 and his ratings didn't decline much, plus you cant expect perfect.

Now I may not be very experienced in life as I am only 22 and I know baseball but i'm not that knowledgeable but i know my stuff I have only been around since OOTP 5 but there are always things that could be better could change thanks for the suggestions but if you would try to make them less like tell us what we don't know its more of a opinion.

And we all have a screen grab of our careers, and My dad agrees with me I like winning every year that's fun for me but we don't mind losing. (this doesn't even show my World Baseball titles) I changed a few thinks to make it harder for me and it has now that I won this year it wasn't easy but it was fun and that's all that matters.

[Hooray Saturday]

Originally Posted by majesty95

There could even be a crossover where you could import the graphical game to OOTP or vice versa (the latter likely being much more challenging).

pretty sure someone is working on a program called THE LINK which will do this.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by megamanmatt

Odd choice of words... 'sounded'. Especially since as text it doesn't sound like a damn thing. Thus any sound you pull out of it is completely and totally of your own mental fabrication. If we're going to share things we don't like however I'd like to point out I'm not a fan of jumping on a guy for sharing his opinion because of their own imagined slights or inability to read anything longer than a paragraph. If we're sharing that is.....

No, you and I are sharing nothing, that's for sure. And what an odd thing to be picayune about, that his post "sounded" patronizing and condescending to me. At least his post was not inane, unlike yours. Asshat. My gosh, how old are you?

Rule invoked: Stupid, personally insulting post = Ignore List. Another one bites the dust.

[Lucas718]

Originally Posted by Hooray Saturday

pretty sure someone is working on a program called THE LINK which will do this.

THE LINK Oh man, that brings back memories.