Position Ratings/Experience: Aiming to Understand

HawkyTom · 03-03-2014, 11:43 AM

Hello I'm trying to figure out how players are given their "Position Rating". I'm also curious how viable learning another position is. (mainly how exactly the experience points are given)

I'd imagine experience gain is influenced by work ethic/intelligence and possibly age(?), speed(?) and then it's elevated/multiplied during spring training & minor league games. (obviously while playing that specific position)

Comparing these two players has me CONFUSED:
(Scouting OFF + Commissioner mode ON)

1B Kyle Blanks Age 26 - Throws Right - 6'5, 270lbs [EXP@1B: 200]
Position Rating: 75
Infield Range: 33
Infield Error: 43
Infield Arm: 22
Turn Double Play: 18

1B Maxx Tissenbaum Age 21 - Throws Right - 5'10 185lbs [EXP@1B: 200]
Position Rating: 66
Infield Range: 52
Infield Error: 59
Infield Arm: 55
Turn Double Play: 43

Why is Kyle Blanks Rated higher than Maxx Tissenbaum, when he's worse in every stat??? (ratings from 1-100) and both are MAX experience at 1B. I'm guessing there is a different formula the various positions, but this just leaves me scratching my head...maybe position ratings are even more deeply evaluated than I initially thought: Handedness and Height could potentially be a factor as well?? Hmm...not sure what else!

Here are a couple select quotes that stuck out to me in the OOTP 14 Manual.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OOTP 14 Manual

Players with higher position ratings are better overall defensively at that position. Position ratings aren't truly distinct ratings. They are more of a composite number based on a combination of the player's defensive skills (arm, error, range) and his experience at the position.

Unlike hitting and pitching ratings, defensive ratings do not have corresponding potential ratings.

Players learn more quickly when they play regularly in the minor leagues, or in spring training. The more a player plays at a certain position, the more he improves.

The defensive spectrum is as follows: DH - 1B - LF - RF - 3B - CF - 2B - SS. Generally speaking, the further to the right, the harder the position is to play and the harder it will be to convert a player to that position.

Anybody have anything to add or further thoughts/insight? Possibly some formulas if your really ambitious!

Bluenoser · 03-03-2014, 12:36 PM

Umm, first we'd have to see the "stats" before we can say one is worse the other. You've only shown ratings.

What is the rest of the team defense like?

How many chances?

How many errors?

What are the RF, EFF, ZR stats like?

1B isn't a great position to look at when studying this, since 1B doesn't require great defense to be good.

You need a large sample size of stats, and mostly you'd want to look at balls in play hit directly to the 1B's area of coverage.

If most of their plays are assisted, then that only means they are good at catching the ball when thrown to them or good at digging it out of the dirt on bad throws.

Don't judge them solely on ratings.

HawkyTom · 03-03-2014, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

Umm, first we'd have to see the "stats" before we can say one is worse the other. You've only shown ratings.

What is the rest of the team defense like?

How many chances?

How many errors?

What are the RF, EFF, ZR stats like?

1B isn't a great position to look at when studying this, since 1B doesn't require great defense to be good.

You need a large sample size of stats, and mostly you'd want to look at balls in play hit directly to the 1B's area of coverage.

If most of their plays are assisted, then that only means they are good at catching the ball when thrown to them or good at digging it out of the dirt on bad throws.

Don't judge them solely on ratings.

I was just trying to figure out how the ratings work...specifically how they are assigned the "Position Rating" value. All the stats you've mentioned are ZERO. This is day 1 of MLB quick start, so they haven't played yet and it lists no career fielding stats. I didn't think stats were applied to the "Position Rating".

*shrugs* Confusing to me.

Both of these settings quoted below are unchecked.

Quote:

Overall rating based on AI evalution, not pure ratings

By default, OOTP overall ratings are based purely on the player's pure ratings, and are not affected by the AI's evaluation of the player. You can change this to Based on AI evaluation if you want overall ratings to be based on the AI's evaluation instead.

Overall rating based on all players, not position

By default, OOTP overall ratings compare players to other players at the same position. For example, shortstops are rated relative to all other shortstops. If you select this check box, the game will instead rate all players compared to all players in the entire league, across positions.

RchW · 03-03-2014, 12:57 PM

Is 1B the only or the primary position for both? As Bluenoser says we need more info. Are both players in the same league? If the younger one is in the minors and the older isn't that may explain part of it.

The numbers given are ratings not stats. I do agree that at first look the second player should have the better position rating. That's why I suspect there is something specific like another position or league involved.

Can you post a screenshot of each player page?

HawkyTom · 03-03-2014, 01:09 PM

I might need help on how to provide a screenshot to the message boards if you don't mind!

Also some further information...I have both these boxes unchecked, so I don't think stats would matter, only 'pure ratings'.

Quote:

Overall rating based on AI evalution, not pure ratings

By default, OOTP overall ratings are based purely on the player's pure ratings, and are not affected by the AI's evaluation of the player. You can change this to Based on AI evaluation if you want overall ratings to be based on the AI's evaluation instead.

Overall rating based on all players, not position

By default, OOTP overall ratings compare players to other players at the same position. For example, shortstops are rated relative to all other shortstops. If you select this check box, the game will instead rate all players compared to all players in the entire league, across positions.

endgame · 03-03-2014, 01:11 PM

I don't know what OS you're using, but Windows 7 has a Snipping Tool that works very well for me. Beyond that, a Print Screen and paste to a program like Paint should do it, although I think you may need to crop the size in order to upload. Others will follow here with more or better advice. Good luck.

Oh, and after you save the file, just Go Advanced and Manage Attachments or in one of the quote or reply boxes there's a paper clip icon that will accomplish the same thing. Just Browse, find your file, and upload. It's pretty straightforward, but post if you have any difficulties.

HawkyTom · 03-03-2014, 01:24 PM

Thanks, that paper click button wasn't too hard to find. heh

I figured Tissenbaum just needed more experience at 1B to get better, so I looked at them in commissioner mode and they both had Experience = 200 @ 1B. (which = max)

TGH-Adfabre · 03-03-2014, 01:37 PM

1B has a ratings boost (or deduction) based on height. I do not know the details of how much or where it is applied but height definitely matters at 1st.
6'5" and 5'10" are a long ways apart.

Experience = either games played or innings played. There is a boost to experience during spring training. Look in the players Career Fielding stats and see if the 2nd player has over 200 professional games at 1B. If I remember correctly 200 professional games is max experience.

I have read these on these boards from posters I deemed credible. This is not straight from Markus.

Sorry I don't have a perfect explanation but I am positive I am really close.
I would imagine Lukasburger? or Injury Log could come along and give you a much more detailed explanation.

Edit: Just noticed experience in your opening post.

It seems odd to me too. I would not think height has that much of an effect. I also do not have any analysis of top 1B defensive players and their heights. There may be a penalty for below 5'11" or 6' that is justified when analyzing 1B defense. Other than that I am at a loss.

TGH-Adfabre · 03-03-2014, 01:50 PM

According to here:

Major League Leaderboards » 2013 » First Basemen » Fielding Statistics | FanGraphs Baseball

In the top 10 players, in 2013, at 1B based on UZR. Mike Napoli was number 1 at 6'. No other player in the top 10 was under 6'2".
I stopped at 10.

I do not know how much confidence people place in UZR but it is a commonly referenced stat.

HawkyTom · 03-03-2014, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGH-Adfabre

1B has a ratings boost (or deduction) based on height. I do not know the details of how much or where it is applied but height definitely matters at 1st.
6'5" and 5'10" are a long ways apart.

It seems odd to me too. I would not think height has that much of an effect. I also do not have any analysis of top 1B defensive players and their heights. There may be a penalty for below 5'11" or 6' that is justified when analyzing 1B defense. Other than that I am at a loss.

Yeah I was also thinking that it could possibly be from the height difference, but wasn't sure...because I doubt that's considered a "rating".

I might look at various 1B later on today if I get some time and see if I can figure out what correlates to their "Position Rating".

There could possibly be inconsistencies elsewhere at other positions or this could an isolated incident (maybe I screwed something up and don't know it), I was just browsing through the Padres organization to see how they were rated in the game.

03-03-2014, 12:57 PM	#4
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	Is 1B the only or the primary position for both? As Bluenoser says we need more info. Are both players in the same league? If the younger one is in the minors and the older isn't that may explain part of it. The numbers given are ratings not stats. I do agree that at first look the second player should have the better position rating. That's why I suspect there is something specific like another position or league involved. Can you post a screenshot of each player page? __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

03-03-2014, 01:11 PM	#6
endgame Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 16,842	I don't know what OS you're using, but Windows 7 has a Snipping Tool that works very well for me. Beyond that, a Print Screen and paste to a program like Paint should do it, although I think you may need to crop the size in order to upload. Others will follow here with more or better advice. Good luck. Oh, and after you save the file, just Go Advanced and Manage Attachments or in one of the quote or reply boxes there's a paper clip icon that will accomplish the same thing. Just Browse, find your file, and upload. It's pretty straightforward, but post if you have any difficulties. __________________ "Try again. Fail again. Fail better." -- Samuel Beckett _____________________________________________ Last edited by endgame; 03-03-2014 at 01:22 PM.

03-03-2014, 01:24 PM	#7
HawkyTom Minors (Single A) Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: San Diego Posts: 61	Thanks, that paper click button wasn't too hard to find. heh I figured Tissenbaum just needed more experience at 1B to get better, so I looked at them in commissioner mode and they both had Experience = 200 @ 1B. (which = max) Attached Images Last edited by HawkyTom; 03-03-2014 at 01:27 PM.

03-03-2014, 01:37 PM	#8
TGH-Adfabre Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,601	1B has a ratings boost (or deduction) based on height. I do not know the details of how much or where it is applied but height definitely matters at 1st. 6'5" and 5'10" are a long ways apart. Experience = either games played or innings played. There is a boost to experience during spring training. Look in the players Career Fielding stats and see if the 2nd player has over 200 professional games at 1B. If I remember correctly 200 professional games is max experience. I have read these on these boards from posters I deemed credible. This is not straight from Markus. Sorry I don't have a perfect explanation but I am positive I am really close. I would imagine Lukasburger? or Injury Log could come along and give you a much more detailed explanation. Edit: Just noticed experience in your opening post. It seems odd to me too. I would not think height has that much of an effect. I also do not have any analysis of top 1B defensive players and their heights. There may be a penalty for below 5'11" or 6' that is justified when analyzing 1B defense. Other than that I am at a loss. __________________ You mock me, therefore I am My wife Last edited by TGH-Adfabre; 03-03-2014 at 01:42 PM. Reason: Blonde Moment

03-03-2014, 01:50 PM	#9
TGH-Adfabre Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,601	According to here: Major League Leaderboards » 2013 » First Basemen » Fielding Statistics \| FanGraphs Baseball In the top 10 players, in 2013, at 1B based on UZR. Mike Napoli was number 1 at 6'. No other player in the top 10 was under 6'2". I stopped at 10. I do not know how much confidence people place in UZR but it is a commonly referenced stat. __________________ You mock me, therefore I am My wife

03-03-2014, 12:36 PM	#2
Bluenoser Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In The Moment Posts: 14,540	Umm, first we'd have to see the "stats" before we can say one is worse the other. You've only shown ratings. What is the rest of the team defense like? How many chances? How many errors? What are the RF, EFF, ZR stats like? 1B isn't a great position to look at when studying this, since 1B doesn't require great defense to be good. You need a large sample size of stats, and mostly you'd want to look at balls in play hit directly to the 1B's area of coverage. If most of their plays are assisted, then that only means they are good at catching the ball when thrown to them or good at digging it out of the dirt on bad throws. Don't judge them solely on ratings.