Calling a game?

JAttractive · 05-27-2002, 01:40 PM

Have the developers ever considered adding a rating for catchers for their "game-calling" skills that could affect pitchers ratings?

Consider the Toronto Blue Jays, it is almost a certainty they will let Darrin Fletcher go in the off-season because he is apparently weak at calling games even though he hits respectably. Of course he is also an older player and they are in a rebuilding phase but their is a lot of talk in the papers and such about how skilled Ken Huckaby is at calling games along with another minor league catcher (not Josh Phelps who should be a star hitter type).

Anyway I think it would be a neat idea, even an option you could turn on and off. I would love to be forced with a decision to play my offensive star or my weak hitter but great game-calling catcher.

Mel_Ott · 05-27-2002, 06:05 PM

I think this is a great idea. Maybe a great catcher could improve one or two of his pitcher's ratings by 1 or so, and a really lousy game caller would worsen them. It would make the choice of catcher much more complicated; I don't think the game gives enough weight to the catcher's defensive rating right now. Possibly, the game calling could be a part of a catcher's defensive rating (A's call good games, E's call bad ones)?

Arbiter · 05-27-2002, 06:08 PM

Unfortunately, a number of studies have looked for some statistical effect along these lines, and none have found any. I think we've had about n threads on this now...

DodgerBlue14 · 05-27-2002, 06:54 PM

i agree this would be a cool addition, just look at Dan Wilson of the Mariners who is probably the best signal caller in the game. He alone makes the Mariner staff a lot better than what it is

JAttractive · 05-28-2002, 02:45 PM

It is hard to exactly prove a catcher's effect statistically and I would hate to see it be a major factor. But I am thinking more along the lines of the "Clutch: Normal/Suffers/Great" thing. Is he a good, average or poor game caller only and then have a minor effect (ie. that 4.6 era becomes 4.5).

I have never seen a study myself on this but I know when the Blue Jays announcers were talking about Darrin Fletcher coming off the DL the other day they pointed out that the ERA with him calling the game was much higher (I think over a run a game difference) than with the back-up catchers and that it was the same last season too.

JAttractive · 05-28-2002, 02:48 PM

Oh and on Dan Wilson, they also stated that the back-up to Dan had approached the Seattle manager about becoming the starter and was told "learn to call a game like Dan and then we can talk".

MizzouRah · 05-28-2002, 03:15 PM

LaRussa uses catchers for each pitcher as well. I know Matheny catches for Kile, Difilece for Morris (although tonight he was subbed by Matheny). Especially when you have a rookie like Ankiel and want a veteran in there to help him out. (some would argue that did not matter in his case

Todd

AarNation8 · 05-28-2002, 07:00 PM

Joe Girardi

Once on my beloved Rockies, has gone to play for Yanks and Cubs. Great game caller and is most important on a team for his leadership/game calling.

CMH · 05-29-2002, 02:22 AM

maybe instead of having a catcher's ability to call games...how about just having an Intelligence rating in the game.

this could be used for everyone. it wont have a HUGE impact but a small one. something like the decision a pitcher has to make off a bunt with a runner on first. do you throw to second to get the lead run out? (even though he's sure to beat out the throw) or do you get the sure out at first? maybe intelligence could play a role in this. an intelligent player would more likely make the play that will work, whereas a less intelligent player would be more likely (not always, but more likely) to make the mistake throw to second and in result have both runners safe on the bunt.

this could play into catching and pitching. where a smarter catcher would call better pitches. so if you had Damian Miller (very smart guy) catching Curt Schilling...you could pretty much say bye bye to your hitting streak. not always, but maybe a slightly better percentage. whereas, a young rookie catcher calling a game for a young rookie pitcher could mean bullpen time by the fourth.

ofcourse, i think this is a rating that should always (except in rare cases) start off low and build overtime thru experience. however, some guys shouldnt always get smarter as their careers go on. i think the same should be done with leadership. a young guy should build into a good leader overtime.

well wateva

05-27-2002, 01:40 PM	#1
JAttractive All Star Starter Join Date: May 2002 Location: St. Catharines, Ontario Posts: 1,138	Calling a game? Have the developers ever considered adding a rating for catchers for their "game-calling" skills that could affect pitchers ratings? Consider the Toronto Blue Jays, it is almost a certainty they will let Darrin Fletcher go in the off-season because he is apparently weak at calling games even though he hits respectably. Of course he is also an older player and they are in a rebuilding phase but their is a lot of talk in the papers and such about how skilled Ken Huckaby is at calling games along with another minor league catcher (not Josh Phelps who should be a star hitter type). Anyway I think it would be a neat idea, even an option you could turn on and off. I would love to be forced with a decision to play my offensive star or my weak hitter but great game-calling catcher.

05-27-2002, 06:05 PM	#2
Mel_Ott Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Where the deer and the antelope play Posts: 924	I think this is a great idea. Maybe a great catcher could improve one or two of his pitcher's ratings by 1 or so, and a really lousy game caller would worsen them. It would make the choice of catcher much more complicated; I don't think the game gives enough weight to the catcher's defensive rating right now. Possibly, the game calling could be a part of a catcher's defensive rating (A's call good games, E's call bad ones)? __________________ jgross's worst nightmare!!!!111 Owner, Sin City Swingers, OBTL

05-27-2002, 06:08 PM	#3
Arbiter Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: College Station TX Posts: 127	Unfortunately, a number of studies have looked for some statistical effect along these lines, and none have found any. I think we've had about n threads on this now...

05-27-2002, 06:54 PM	#4
DodgerBlue14 Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 59	i agree this would be a cool addition, just look at Dan Wilson of the Mariners who is probably the best signal caller in the game. He alone makes the Mariner staff a lot better than what it is

05-28-2002, 02:45 PM	#5
JAttractive All Star Starter Join Date: May 2002 Location: St. Catharines, Ontario Posts: 1,138	It is hard to exactly prove a catcher's effect statistically and I would hate to see it be a major factor. But I am thinking more along the lines of the "Clutch: Normal/Suffers/Great" thing. Is he a good, average or poor game caller only and then have a minor effect (ie. that 4.6 era becomes 4.5). I have never seen a study myself on this but I know when the Blue Jays announcers were talking about Darrin Fletcher coming off the DL the other day they pointed out that the ERA with him calling the game was much higher (I think over a run a game difference) than with the back-up catchers and that it was the same last season too.

05-28-2002, 02:48 PM	#6
JAttractive All Star Starter Join Date: May 2002 Location: St. Catharines, Ontario Posts: 1,138	Oh and on Dan Wilson, they also stated that the back-up to Dan had approached the Seattle manager about becoming the starter and was told "learn to call a game like Dan and then we can talk".

05-28-2002, 03:15 PM	#7
MizzouRah Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Troy, Mo Posts: 6,266	LaRussa uses catchers for each pitcher as well. I know Matheny catches for Kile, Difilece for Morris (although tonight he was subbed by Matheny). Especially when you have a rookie like Ankiel and want a veteran in there to help him out. (some would argue that did not matter in his case Todd

05-28-2002, 07:00 PM	#8
AarNation8 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Fort Collins Posts: 38	Joe Girardi Once on my beloved Rockies, has gone to play for Yanks and Cubs. Great game caller and is most important on a team for his leadership/game calling.

05-29-2002, 02:22 AM	#9
CMH Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,057	maybe instead of having a catcher's ability to call games...how about just having an Intelligence rating in the game. this could be used for everyone. it wont have a HUGE impact but a small one. something like the decision a pitcher has to make off a bunt with a runner on first. do you throw to second to get the lead run out? (even though he's sure to beat out the throw) or do you get the sure out at first? maybe intelligence could play a role in this. an intelligent player would more likely make the play that will work, whereas a less intelligent player would be more likely (not always, but more likely) to make the mistake throw to second and in result have both runners safe on the bunt. this could play into catching and pitching. where a smarter catcher would call better pitches. so if you had Damian Miller (very smart guy) catching Curt Schilling...you could pretty much say bye bye to your hitting streak. not always, but maybe a slightly better percentage. whereas, a young rookie catcher calling a game for a young rookie pitcher could mean bullpen time by the fourth. ofcourse, i think this is a rating that should always (except in rare cases) start off low and build overtime thru experience. however, some guys shouldnt always get smarter as their careers go on. i think the same should be done with leadership. a young guy should build into a good leader overtime. well wateva