stealing with two strikes

origamirazor · 12-06-2001, 04:13 PM

Sorry if this has been posted before.
Is it possible to steal a base with two strikes on the batter in this game? I've dug around through the game and can't tell if it's something i have set up wrong or not. Thanks in advance for any ***istance.

Steve Kuffrey · 12-06-2001, 04:24 PM

I answered this question on the other board, no you can't currently.

JML · 12-06-2001, 05:05 PM

Sidenote: when i've got a major bag-stealer on first, I always attempt steals until there is one strike. Then I hit and run. This way, my hitter either makes contact and I get an extra base (or out of a DP) or he misses and my runner tries to steal. Granted, it's harder to steal successfully on a hit and run, but at least he isn't left standing on first with two strikes. And you DO risk the lineout DP.

PS: I do this a lot more with less than two out, since I want also want to negate a double play. With two out, I may not risk the hit and run move.

sporr · 12-06-2001, 05:13 PM

I never attempt more than once even with my speedsters. It just doesn't feel right to me to keep trying. I do use the hit and run to move that guy if he doesn't get a good jump. I wonder, though, if it affects the batter to have 2 strikes on him (one on the good lead attempt and another on a missed hit and run swing) or if the game just re-randomizes the result and adjusts the count appropriately. i.e. is this guy more likely to strike out or does the game ignore the fact that he has 2 strikes on him already....

Becks910 · 12-07-2001, 12:26 PM

But what about 3 balls, 2 strikes, 2 outs? I'm not familiar with the game, but it seems to me that OOTP4 should make it an automatic steal on a full count. Or is that already the case?

Joe M. · 12-07-2001, 12:28 PM

The runner leaves with a full count and two outs already.

sporr · 12-07-2001, 12:59 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Draugwath:
<strong>The runner leaves with a full count and two outs already.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I've read (and experience hasn't proven otherwise) that even though the play-by-play states that the runner leaves with the pitch, when the play pans out, he doesn't move up on the bases as if he had. Anybody prove or disprove this?

Joe M. · 12-07-2001, 02:34 PM

Spoor, I think the logic in general with two outs is off sometimes. Many a game I have had a quick runner on second fail to score with two outs on a bloop single to right field. That is something that would rarely happen in real life unless the runner had forgotten that there were two outs.

Big Johnston · 12-07-2001, 02:44 PM

I think that you should be able to attempt to steal on any count - unless it's 2 outs AND 2 strikes, in which case everyone is going anyway.

ctorg · 03-04-2004, 02:43 PM

It really would be nice to get this long-desired improvement into the game.

KurtBevacqua · 03-04-2004, 03:37 PM

DMB PbP is the same way. No stealing on 2 strikes. It has to be a hit and run, otherwise you make the batter a complete sitting duck. He has to take the pitch with no way of protecting himself by fouling off the pitch. It's just completely impractical to have a straight steal with 2 strikes. I suppose the game outta at keast give you the option, but it makes for very, very poor strategy. You do the hit and run instead so the batter has the ability to protect himself against a called 3rd strike.

ctorg · 03-05-2004, 07:57 AM

I think the real thing you need is the option to put the runner in motion being separate from the option of whether to swing at the pitch or not. That way you can have run & hit (as opposed to hit & run) plays, which are missing from the game.

Hoiles · 03-05-2004, 11:14 AM

I notice the AI only steals on a 0-0 count, so to be fair, I only attempt steals on a 0-0 count as well.

I realize that this is not very realistic, but since OOTP as it is currently is not really intended as a pitch-by-pitch game, more as an outcome of at bat game I really don`t mind. Personally, I prefer Markus looking into other in-game AI aspects as pinch-hitting and relieving pitchers (which he certainly has improved).

Talk of the Town · 03-05-2004, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KurtBevacqua
DMB PbP is the same way. No stealing on 2 strikes. It has to be a hit and run, otherwise you make the batter a complete sitting duck. He has to take the pitch with no way of protecting himself by fouling off the pitch. It's just completely impractical to have a straight steal with 2 strikes. I suppose the game outta at keast give you the option, but it makes for very, very poor strategy. You do the hit and run instead so the batter has the ability to protect himself against a called 3rd strike.

Yes, but hit and run causes your batter to swing at any pitch, even if it is a ball, which will automatically reduce your % of getting either a hit or a steal. Maybe if there was a way to call hit and run, yet not have the batter automatically swing at a bad pitch.

andjbock · 03-05-2004, 12:15 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sporr

Quote:

Originally posted by Draugwath:
<strong>The runner leaves with a full count and two outs already.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I've read (and experience hasn't proven otherwise) that even though the play-by-play states that the runner leaves with the pitch, when the play pans out, he doesn't move up on the bases as if he had. Anybody prove or disprove this?

I have had guys score from first with a 2 out, 3-2 count. It has always been on 2Bs though.

M's rule · 03-06-2004, 12:57 AM

I'll echo the previous observation, and add that (in my recollection) A and B speed guys take this "extra base" a lot more often than D and E guys. That makes sense, of course.

It also seems to make a difference---again, memory only, no data---whether the double is hit to left field or right. Doubles to right field with 2 outs will score a runner from first without drawing a throw to the plate, much more often than not. Doubles to left are more likely to produce a throw to the plate, with (presumably) a commensurately greater chance of the runner not scoring.

I say (presumably) because, based on the PbP display as it unrolls, a throw to the plate always occurs before a runner fails to score. But a throw to the plate does not always result in an out.

So, when I'm rolling the dice on a pinch hitter with a runner on first and 2 outs, I'll be hoping that I have a decent left-hand hitter available, because if he pulls one into the gap in right center or down the line, even my catcher has a decent chance of scoring from first.

Or am I overthinking?

mlyons · 03-06-2004, 08:24 PM

Scoring from first on a double with 2 outs is pretty close to automatic in OOTP5, no matter where the ball is hit. The only time I've seen the batter not score from first with 2 outs is if he's had "E" speed.

12-06-2001, 04:13 PM	#1
origamirazor Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 70	stealing with two strikes Sorry if this has been posted before. Is it possible to steal a base with two strikes on the batter in this game? I've dug around through the game and can't tell if it's something i have set up wrong or not. Thanks in advance for any ***istance.

12-06-2001, 04:24 PM	#2
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,036	I answered this question on the other board, no you can't currently. __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

12-07-2001, 12:26 PM	#5
Becks910 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 23	But what about 3 balls, 2 strikes, 2 outs? I'm not familiar with the game, but it seems to me that OOTP4 should make it an automatic steal on a full count. Or is that already the case? __________________ David Becker <a href="http://www.sportplanet.com/sbb/vesuvius/CBL/Main/CBLindex.htm" target="_blank">CBL Baltimore Orioles GM</a> <a href="http://www.angelfire.com/sd/Cyclones/AFBL.html" target="_blank">AFBL Chairman</a>

03-04-2004, 02:43 PM	#10
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	It really would be nice to get this long-desired improvement into the game. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

03-04-2004, 03:37 PM	#11
KurtBevacqua Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 2,968	DMB PbP is the same way. No stealing on 2 strikes. It has to be a hit and run, otherwise you make the batter a complete sitting duck. He has to take the pitch with no way of protecting himself by fouling off the pitch. It's just completely impractical to have a straight steal with 2 strikes. I suppose the game outta at keast give you the option, but it makes for very, very poor strategy. You do the hit and run instead so the batter has the ability to protect himself against a called 3rd strike. __________________ "The type and formula of most schemes of philanthropy or humanitarianism is this: A and B put their heads together to decide what C shall be made to do for D. The radical vice of all these schemes, from a sociological point of view, is that C is not allowed a voice in the matter, and his position, character, and interests, as well as the ultimate effects on society through C's interests, are entirely overlooked. I call C the Forgotten Man" - William Graham Sumner

12-06-2001, 05:05 PM	#3
JML Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The act or process of locating. Posts: 2,154	Sidenote: when i've got a major bag-stealer on first, I always attempt steals until there is one strike. Then I hit and run. This way, my hitter either makes contact and I get an extra base (or out of a DP) or he misses and my runner tries to steal. Granted, it's harder to steal successfully on a hit and run, but at least he isn't left standing on first with two strikes. And you DO risk the lineout DP. PS: I do this a lot more with less than two out, since I want also want to negate a double play. With two out, I may not risk the hit and run move.

12-06-2001, 05:13 PM	#4
sporr Global Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Muscatine, IA Posts: 8,277	I never attempt more than once even with my speedsters. It just doesn't feel right to me to keep trying. I do use the hit and run to move that guy if he doesn't get a good jump. I wonder, though, if it affects the batter to have 2 strikes on him (one on the good lead attempt and another on a missed hit and run swing) or if the game just re-randomizes the result and adjusts the count appropriately. i.e. is this guy more likely to strike out or does the game ignore the fact that he has 2 strikes on him already....

12-07-2001, 12:28 PM	#6
Joe M. Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 46	The runner leaves with a full count and two outs already.

12-07-2001, 12:59 PM	#7
sporr Global Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Muscatine, IA Posts: 8,277	[quote]Originally posted by Draugwath: <strong>The runner leaves with a full count and two outs already.</strong><hr></blockquote> I've read (and experience hasn't proven otherwise) that even though the play-by-play states that the runner leaves with the pitch, when the play pans out, he doesn't move up on the bases as if he had. Anybody prove or disprove this?

12-07-2001, 02:34 PM	#8
Joe M. Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 46	Spoor, I think the logic in general with two outs is off sometimes. Many a game I have had a quick runner on second fail to score with two outs on a bloop single to right field. That is something that would rarely happen in real life unless the runner had forgotten that there were two outs.

12-07-2001, 02:44 PM	#9
Big Johnston Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 50	I think that you should be able to attempt to steal on any count - unless it's 2 outs AND 2 strikes, in which case everyone is going anyway.

03-05-2004, 07:57 AM	#12
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	I think the real thing you need is the option to put the runner in motion being separate from the option of whether to swing at the pitch or not. That way you can have run & hit (as opposed to hit & run) plays, which are missing from the game. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

03-05-2004, 11:14 AM	#13
Hoiles All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Canada Posts: 574	I notice the AI only steals on a 0-0 count, so to be fair, I only attempt steals on a 0-0 count as well. I realize that this is not very realistic, but since OOTP as it is currently is not really intended as a pitch-by-pitch game, more as an outcome of at bat game I really don`t mind. Personally, I prefer Markus looking into other in-game AI aspects as pinch-hitting and relieving pitchers (which he certainly has improved).

03-06-2004, 12:57 AM	#16
M's rule All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Seattle Posts: 925	I'll echo the previous observation, and add that (in my recollection) A and B speed guys take this "extra base" a lot more often than D and E guys. That makes sense, of course. It also seems to make a difference---again, memory only, no data---whether the double is hit to left field or right. Doubles to right field with 2 outs will score a runner from first without drawing a throw to the plate, much more often than not. Doubles to left are more likely to produce a throw to the plate, with (presumably) a commensurately greater chance of the runner not scoring. I say (presumably) because, based on the PbP display as it unrolls, a throw to the plate always occurs before a runner fails to score. But a throw to the plate does not always result in an out. So, when I'm rolling the dice on a pinch hitter with a runner on first and 2 outs, I'll be hoping that I have a decent left-hand hitter available, because if he pulls one into the gap in right center or down the line, even my catcher has a decent chance of scoring from first. Or am I overthinking?

03-06-2004, 08:24 PM	#17
mlyons Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 3,725	Scoring from first on a double with 2 outs is pretty close to automatic in OOTP5, no matter where the ball is hit. The only time I've seen the batter not score from first with 2 outs is if he's had "E" speed. __________________ Things can always be worse.