Historical changes

[Vyper]

Like a really really slow groundhog, I'm poking my head back up. Tried some historical replays back with STB 2003 and OOTP 9 (you can still find them somewhere here) and finally ready to give this a shot again, hopefully a little wiser and more committed. It's been great to read through some of these posts and still see some of the old names I knew back when we didn't really know just what a great game we had.

I've read through a lot of the threads today, so I have a general idea of where things are at, but if any of you have specific threads or files to point me towards that would help with starting an accurate, historical league in 1871, i'd really appreciate your time. I'm going to play around with 14 for a few days and see what I can figure out, then hopefully start another historical dynasty, and maybe this time I can see that through to the end.

Edit: sorry, really should have posted this in the 2014 historical forum

[The Game]

Originally Posted by Vyper

Like a really really slow groundhog, I'm poking my head back up. Tried some historical replays back with STB 2003 and OOTP 9 (you can still find them somewhere here) and finally ready to give this a shot again, hopefully a little wiser and more committed. It's been great to read through some of these posts and still see some of the old names I knew back when we didn't really know just what a great game we had.

I've read through a lot of the threads today, so I have a general idea of where things are at, but if any of you have specific threads or files to point me towards that would help with starting an accurate, historical league in 1871, i'd really appreciate your time. I'm going to play around with 14 for a few days and see what I can figure out, then hopefully start another historical dynasty, and maybe this time I can see that through to the end.

Edit: sorry, really should have posted this in the 2014 historical forum

How accurate do you want 1871-1900 to be? Best way is to create it yourself. I have a 1871 90% accurate quickstart but have not messed with it much.
1871 NA

If you download Gambo's .PRK files from ootpmods.com you can manually redo parks. then just follow 1871 NA from baseball ref for changes. That the way i had planned. If you start a historical game in 1871 from OOTP it will already have AL teams and will add teams like the White Sox in 1882.

[Vyper]

I try to keep things as accurate as possible without going totally overboard. Accurate teams, schedules, rosters, trades, and league stats at least a close approximation of real world totals. I know that takes a lot of manual work up through 1900, and it was doable 10 years ago, so I've got to imagine it's at least slightly easier now.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by Vyper

I try to keep things as accurate as possible without going totally overboard. Accurate teams, schedules, rosters, trades, and league stats at least a close approximation of real world totals. I know that takes a lot of manual work up through 1900, and it was doable 10 years ago, so I've got to imagine it's at least slightly easier now.

You can find the schedules. There is a file called 19th century schedules, I am sure it is on ootpmods.com. I have used it in the past. You can check mark historical lineups and transactions. I have never used either but other hen 1871 they should be accurate. Teams you would have to do manually. Add Cleveland Forest Citys, Rockford Forest Citys. Fold various teams. The league modifiers should be good to go but others like RchW and The Wolf and others can answer that better then I can. I have never seen anything to out of wack 1871-1950. There are also tons of uniforms and logos available, well home uniforms 1871-1900 not too many roads, although many have made their version for road uniforms. The Spritze DB might be the way you want to go if you want Negro league, PCL, ***, FED & AA players who did not play MLB.

[Vyper]

Originally Posted by The Game

You can find the schedules. There is a file called 19th century schedules, I am sure it is on ootpmods.com. I have used it in the past. You can check mark historical lineups and transactions. I have never used either but other hen 1871 they should be accurate. Teams you would have to do manually. Add Cleveland Forest Citys, Rockford Forest Citys. Fold various teams. The league modifiers should be good to go but others like RchW and The Wolf and others can answer that better then I can. I have never seen anything to out of wack 1871-1950. There are also tons of uniforms and logos available, well home uniforms 1871-1900 not too many roads, although many have made their version for road uniforms. The Spritze DB might be the way you want to go if you want Negro league, PCL, ***, FED & AA players who did not play MLB.

Thanks, that's great advice. Are there still issues with starting with 1 league, then adding others later? I definitely want to include the AA and AL, and can live without the others (UA, PL, FL), but obviously would like to include them if I can. From reading the forums, I didn't realize historical transactions worked prior to 1901, so that will save a huge amount of time.

[Vyper]

I guess issue #2 is just getting started. I've downloaded the Gambo/Spritze DB, moved those files to the stats folder, but I can't figure out how to create the initial league (1 league, 9 teams). everything i'm trying i either get 2 4 team leagues, or 1 9 team league with fictional players.

If I remember, way back you had to start a league in 1870, then basically reset everything, delete all players going into 1871 so there was no history, and all the correct players were imported to their appropriate teams. Does not seem like this is the case any more, but I may be missing something obvious.

[Vyper]

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...y-leagues.html

Just found that excellent explanation from BaseballMan, will give it a try when I get home tonight.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by Vyper

Thanks, that's great advice. Are there still issues with starting with 1 league, then adding others later? I definitely want to include the AA and AL, and can live without the others (UA, PL, FL), but obviously would like to include them if I can. From reading the forums, I didn't realize historical transactions worked prior to 1901, so that will save a huge amount of time.

I am not sure historical transactions work prior to 1901. If you turn off league evolution then you can edit the 2 subleagues down to 1 and make manual changes. I have not tried it that way. My league that I linked is a fictional league. I dont have real players in it. Someday I want to recreate a 100% accurate MLB 1871-1900 quickstart.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by Vyper

I guess issue #2 is just getting started. I've downloaded the Gambo/Spritze DB, moved those files to the stats folder, but I can't figure out how to create the initial league (1 league, 9 teams). everything i'm trying i either get 2 4 team leagues, or 1 9 team league with fictional players.

If I remember, way back you had to start a league in 1870, then basically reset everything, delete all players going into 1871 so there was no history, and all the correct players were imported to their appropriate teams. Does not seem like this is the case any more, but I may be missing something obvious.

If you are going to use historical lineups and transactions then create the 1871 historical league. turn off automatically expand league, I believe this is what will prevent the league from reverting to what OOTP thinks the 1872 season should be based on how they have it set up.

If you did not plan on using historical lineups and trans actions prior to 1901 then i would just create a fictional league and do the changes manually and manually sign or trade players.
Create the NA, NL, AA, UL, & PL prior to 1901 (txranger has tons of players league uniforms) Then for 1901 just create the 1901 historical league delete all players that come with that and then move the players from the NL & AA? to MLB then delete the remaining leagues. Not 100% sure if this would be the best way but I am 80% sure. i had plans to do something like this but gave up since i have one league i play most of teh time and did not want to get to far into a new league.

[Vyper]

Originally Posted by The Game

If you are going to use historical lineups and transactions then create the 1871 historical league. turn off automatically expand league, I believe this is what will prevent the league from reverting to what OOTP thinks the 1872 season should be based on how they have it set up.

If you did not plan on using historical lineups and trans actions prior to 1901 then i would just create a fictional league and do the changes manually and manually sign or trade players.
Create the NA, NL, AA, UL, & PL prior to 1901 (txranger has tons of players league uniforms) Then for 1901 just create the 1901 historical league delete all players that come with that and then move the players from the NL & AA? to MLB then delete the remaining leagues. Not 100% sure if this would be the best way but I am 80% sure. i had plans to do something like this but gave up since i have one league i play most of teh time and did not want to get to far into a new league.

Ok, will give that a shot. I'm going to use historical transactions (and it looks like the DB does have those, starting in 1872, though I don't know to what extent. Something I can keep an eye on anyway until I'm comfortable), and historical lineups. So I'll try with the historical league, handle expansion and contraction myself until 1901 or whenever.

I'm guessing the Federal League won't work in 1914/15 unless I start with 3 leagues, and that seems like way too much hassle for 2 years. I don't believe any other year had more than 2 leagues.

It looks like the Gambo database continues to split the teams between AL and NL after 1871, so it may need a little more editing just to change AL to NL, but I could be off base on that and players get imported by team id, no matter what league they're in.

[Vyper]

For some reason I'm not seeing the option from your screenshot to use historical trades or historical lineups. I did create a historical league (maybe because the initial players are dumped into free agency and I haven't run the draft yet). I just don't have that first section.

Also a problem with the schedules. I'm not sure which addon I'm using, but the ID's don't match up. There are 9 teams in the schedule file, so that's good, but adding the 9th team to my league gave it an ID of 11, which is not changeable. Not sure if it's going to be faster to do a new schedule by hand, or fix the ID's in this schedule through trial and error.

Sorry for all the posts, maybe some of this will be helpful to someone else one day.

[NYY #23]

I'm 99% positive that even thought the database does have the pre-1901 transactions they won't work until 1901. I believe lineups are complete for around 1919. I'm pretty sure you'd have to do those transactions manually before 1901.

[Vyper]

Originally Posted by NYY #23

I'm 99% positive that even thought the database does have the pre-1901 transactions they won't work until 1901. I believe lineups are complete for around 1919. I'm pretty sure you'd have to do those transactions manually before 1901.

Well, the data is there either way, there are 160 instances of "1872" in that file, so if I can read it, it's at least possible to do manually without having to look up every single player each year and build a spreadsheet for roster moves.

Still playing around with the schedules. With the different team ID's, even if I edit the file to match the correct ID, it's telling me the loaded schedule has a different structure as the current league. So I'm going to try to add a few dates in the schedule editor and see what I'm doing wrong.

Apparently the game doesn't look at the teams.csv file when creating the initial season. Edited it to have the real 9 teams in there, with a 10th for an even number, to be deleted later, but still ended up with an 8 team league, including the Baltimore Canaries, which I had completely renamed in the csv.

Historical Transactions are not an available option prior to 1901, and I don't know about historical lineups. I even tried loading a 2012 historical season and the option is greyed out an unselectable.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by Vyper

For some reason I'm not seeing the option from your screenshot to use historical trades or historical lineups. I did create a historical league (maybe because the initial players are dumped into free agency and I haven't run the draft yet). I just don't have that first section.

Also a problem with the schedules. I'm not sure which addon I'm using, but the ID's don't match up. There are 9 teams in the schedule file, so that's good, but adding the 9th team to my league gave it an ID of 11, which is not changeable. Not sure if it's going to be faster to do a new schedule by hand, or fix the ID's in this schedule through trial and error.

Sorry for all the posts, maybe some of this will be helpful to someone else one day.

League setup - Historical is where that screen is at. Maybe it is not available pre 1901?
You can manually add the Fed league as a new fictional league. No Pepper & txrager have many of the uniforms.
Not sure why it added the 11th id #. see if these help.

[The Game]

Just realized that schedule has 80 games vs 30 for '71. So I guess those are not accurate, I thought they were.

[Vyper]

Originally Posted by The Game

League setup - Historical is where that screen is at. Maybe it is not available pre 1901?
You can manually add the Fed league as a new fictional league. No Pepper & txrager have many of the uniforms.
Not sure why it added the 11th id #. see if these help.

The option was greyed out when I did advanced options on my league. Tested starting in 1901 using the wizard, and I'm able to use both historical lineups and transactions. Seems like a great feature, but not always accurate, even with the option to have players retire as they did in real life, seems they'll sometimes still get unhappy and retire on their own after spending a year on the free agent list. Manually unretiring and reassigning them fixes that, but I wonder about the "war years". Couldn't imagine Ted Williams retiring in '43.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by Vyper

The option was greyed out when I did advanced options on my league. Tested starting in 1901 using the wizard, and I'm able to use both historical lineups and transactions. Seems like a great feature, but not always accurate, even with the option to have players retire as they did in real life, seems they'll sometimes still get unhappy and retire on their own after spending a year on the free agent list. Manually unretiring and reassigning them fixes that, but I wonder about the "war years". Couldn't imagine Ted Williams retiring in '43.

The biggest issue with war related players is that you must unretire them after the war. Players still can suffer from CEI's and such, that is one reason why I do not use historical lineups, transactions & player retire, miss seasons due to history.

[Vyper]

Originally Posted by The Game

The biggest issue with war related players is that you must unretire them after the war. Players still can suffer from CEI's and such, that is one reason why I do not use historical lineups, transactions & player retire, miss seasons due to history.

I generally play with injuries turned off, more for statistical accuracy than anything, and I'm seeing that the historical lineups really helps with that. But after playing around a few days, I can see the benefits. There's definitely a lot more depth that wasn't here the last time I played.

Still would love to find an easier way to use real life schedules for the 1800's though. A 30 game schedule actually works ok for 1871, but there were so many teams that played partial seasons, or just fewer (or more) games. So to get an accurate recreation that's not a solution. The schedule editor is nice, but really slow. I couldn't imagine using it beyond the first handful of seasons if that's the route you have to go for historically accurate schedules after adding teams manually.

[The Game]

you could see if GMO has a schedule that will work or create your own. Should only take an hour or so to create a 30 game schedule.
http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...-use-ootp.html

Making Baseball Schedules

I have slowly been working on a 16 game NFL schedule, a 82 NBA schedule and a NHL schedule.

[Pronkytonk]

Originally Posted by The Game

Just realized that schedule has 80 games vs 30 for '71. So I guess those are not accurate, I thought they were.

They are. The number of games in the file name is there for some technical reasons I cannot remember exactly (fhomess explained it in some thread IIRC), the schedule itself is 100 % accurate. I used it before and got the results I was looking for.