Playing time calculator

PSUColonel · 12-18-2013, 06:21 PM

Solecismic just released FOF7 and when I saw this feature, I had to suggest it for OOTP.

RchW · 12-18-2013, 06:58 PM

Player usage in baseball is totally different. Playing 16-18 games per season vs 162 games are not comparable. The need for rest is completely different. The reasons for playing and not playing are different.

Baseball players are not rested in-game like football but instead given entire games off if possible usually on a rotating basis and against weaker opposition/tough pitcher. If you were to set even a 90% rate without thinking a key player could miss a critical game against a division opponent based on the percentage and not reality. If you had 5 players set to 90% would they all be off the same day?

I know the fatigue system doesn't always work as expected but it is usually due to bad AI player use (position) and not the actual fatigue trigger. I'd like to see that problem fixed first and see if fatigue works when a substitute player is available.

PSUColonel · 12-18-2013, 08:08 PM

I realize it wouldn't be exactly the same, but I still think it's a good idea for baseball related playing time. Spring Training and september call ups are a big part of reduced/increased playing time.

WillieMaysHayes · 12-21-2013, 09:03 PM

This seems to go against the whole essence of researching and changing your lineups to win. Are you just wanting to put this setting on and autopilot the entire year with a lineup?

RchW · 12-24-2013, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I realize it wouldn't be exactly the same, but I still think it's a good idea for baseball related playing time. Spring Training and september call ups are a big part of reduced/increased playing time.

Spring training and September have almost no importance in "real" game play. If you are in a pennant race you are going to play the best players as much as possible. No calculator needed.

ST is ST.

Is it more complicated than that?

PSUColonel · 12-26-2013, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillieMaysHayes

This seems to go against the whole essence of researching and changing your lineups to win. Are you just wanting to put this setting on and autopilot the entire year with a lineup?

It's really more for the AI

PSUColonel · 12-26-2013, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

Spring training and September have almost no importance in "real" game play. If you are in a pennant race you are going to play the best players as much as possible. No calculator needed.

ST is ST.

Is it more complicated than that?

Yes, getting a look at prospects if you're not in the race...spring training position battles

RchW · 12-26-2013, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

Yes, getting a look at prospects if you're not in the race...spring training position battles

Playing prospects in September is easy just put them in the lineup. Keep in mind just like RL you should play a regular lineup against teams in the race. That requires some judgement of when certain players should play. Use 7-day lineups for this.

As for ST it's exceedingly rare IRL for a player to "win" a position battle from out of the blue. The 25 man roster is very often a result of who has options left than it is about who played better. It's much more likely that a marginal player may unseat another marginal player for a backup role but only if the contract and options are in his favor.

For a prospect it's almost impossible to win a position battle in ST due to the service time clock. I saw Mike Trout in 2012 ST. Easily the best player on the field every time he played but the Angels like most MLB teams made it clear he would not start the season.

PSUColonel · 12-26-2013, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

Playing prospects in September is easy just put them in the lineup. Keep in mind just like RL you should play a regular lineup against teams in the race. That requires some judgement of when certain players should play. Use 7-day lineups for this.

As for ST it's exceedingly rare IRL for a player to "win" a position battle from out of the blue. The 25 man roster is very often a result of who has options left than it is about who played better. It's much more likely that a marginal player may unseat another marginal player for a backup role but only if the contract and options are in his favor.

For a prospect it's almost impossible to win a position battle in ST due to the service time clock. I saw Mike Trout in 2012 ST. Easily the best player on the field every time he played but the Angels like most MLB teams made it clear he would not start the season.

But the AI cannot...this is an idea to help the AI and allow you to give instruction to your field manager.

RchW · 12-27-2013, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

But the AI cannot...this is an idea to help the AI and allow you to give instruction to your field manager.

Are you saying that the AI does conduct ST position battles or that you want it to do so?

PSUColonel · 12-27-2013, 04:37 AM

I am saying the AI probably plays the starters too much in ST, and only starts subbing after about 7 innings for position players....4 innings for pitchers. The AI simply uses the best ratings to determine lineups...it doesn't say to itself...we have a potential hole at a position next season because the GM has decided not to resign a particular player, and the team needs to give a young prospect more playing time in September because the team is out of any race. This feature if done properly, could allow the AI to "think" in these terms.

Bluenoser · 12-27-2013, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I am saying the AI probably plays the starters too much in ST, and only starts subbing after about 7 innings for position players....4 innings for pitchers. The AI simply uses the best ratings to determine lineups...it doesn't say to itself...we have a potential hole at a position next season because the GM has decided not to resign a particular player, and the team needs to give a young prospect more playing time in September because the team is out of any race. This feature if done properly, could allow the AI to "think" in these terms.

I never see this - AI always manages its team very well during ST. Less work early on, more later on.

You use a word like "probably"? Does it or doesn't it?

And how would this chart tell the AI that it might need a SS next season?

RchW · 12-27-2013, 11:32 AM

PSU it would be better to state the AI problem as you see it and suggest a solution. I think we could agree that any AI improvement would be a good thing. I don't see how the relatively simplistic playing time calculator from a football sim would help at all.

The biggest problem in the AI is an over reliance on "best batting" lineup, insufficient penalties for poor defense and still too many multi-position infielders. The lack of planning for a replacement player occurs because the AI probably has a good hit poor field replacement on the roster. That goes to player creation which should reduce the number of good hit poor field players available.

The AI appears not to plan but in fact it is doing things by a flawed logic. Way too many "suitable replacements" are readily available.

The answer should be the same as real life. If you need a SS get a SS. Need a 2B get a 2B not a hitter who can "play" 2B.

David Watts · 12-27-2013, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

PSU it would be better to state the AI problem as you see it and suggest a solution. I think we could agree that any AI improvement would be a good thing. I don't see how the relatively simplistic playing time calculator from a football sim would help at all.

The biggest problem in the AI is an over reliance on "best batting" lineup, insufficient penalties for poor defense and still too many multi-position infielders. The lack of planning for a replacement player occurs because the AI probably has a good hit poor field replacement on the roster. That goes to player creation which should reduce the number of good hit poor field players available.

The AI appears not to plan but in fact it is doing things by a flawed logic. Way too many "suitable replacements" are readily available.

The answer should be the same as real life. If you need a SS get a SS. Need a 2B get a 2B not a hitter who can "play" 2B.

I hope you keep beating this drum until this gets fixed. The above is so important to fictional play.

PSUColonel · 12-27-2013, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

PSU it would be better to state the AI problem as you see it and suggest a solution. I think we could agree that any AI improvement would be a good thing. I don't see how the relatively simplistic playing time calculator from a football sim would help at all.

The biggest problem in the AI is an over reliance on "best batting" lineup, insufficient penalties for poor defense and still too many multi-position infielders. The lack of planning for a replacement player occurs because the AI probably has a good hit poor field replacement on the roster. That goes to player creation which should reduce the number of good hit poor field players available.

The AI appears not to plan but in fact it is doing things by a flawed logic. Way too many "suitable replacements" are readily available.

The answer should be the same as real life. If you need a SS get a SS. Need a 2B get a 2B not a hitter who can "play" 2B.

After reading this, I must agree...this is a much better solution

12-18-2013, 06:21 PM	#1
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,143	Playing time calculator Solecismic just released FOF7 and when I saw this feature, I had to suggest it for OOTP. Attached Images

12-18-2013, 06:58 PM	#2
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	Player usage in baseball is totally different. Playing 16-18 games per season vs 162 games are not comparable. The need for rest is completely different. The reasons for playing and not playing are different. Baseball players are not rested in-game like football but instead given entire games off if possible usually on a rotating basis and against weaker opposition/tough pitcher. If you were to set even a 90% rate without thinking a key player could miss a critical game against a division opponent based on the percentage and not reality. If you had 5 players set to 90% would they all be off the same day? I know the fatigue system doesn't always work as expected but it is usually due to bad AI player use (position) and not the actual fatigue trigger. I'd like to see that problem fixed first and see if fatigue works when a substitute player is available. __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

12-27-2013, 11:32 AM	#13
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	PSU it would be better to state the AI problem as you see it and suggest a solution. I think we could agree that any AI improvement would be a good thing. I don't see how the relatively simplistic playing time calculator from a football sim would help at all. The biggest problem in the AI is an over reliance on "best batting" lineup, insufficient penalties for poor defense and still too many multi-position infielders. The lack of planning for a replacement player occurs because the AI probably has a good hit poor field replacement on the roster. That goes to player creation which should reduce the number of good hit poor field players available. The AI appears not to plan but in fact it is doing things by a flawed logic. Way too many "suitable replacements" are readily available. The answer should be the same as real life. If you need a SS get a SS. Need a 2B get a 2B not a hitter who can "play" 2B. __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

12-18-2013, 08:08 PM	#3
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,143	I realize it wouldn't be exactly the same, but I still think it's a good idea for baseball related playing time. Spring Training and september call ups are a big part of reduced/increased playing time.

12-21-2013, 09:03 PM	#4
WillieMaysHayes Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 143	This seems to go against the whole essence of researching and changing your lineups to win. Are you just wanting to put this setting on and autopilot the entire year with a lineup?

12-27-2013, 04:37 AM	#11
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,143	I am saying the AI probably plays the starters too much in ST, and only starts subbing after about 7 innings for position players....4 innings for pitchers. The AI simply uses the best ratings to determine lineups...it doesn't say to itself...we have a potential hole at a position next season because the GM has decided not to resign a particular player, and the team needs to give a young prospect more playing time in September because the team is out of any race. This feature if done properly, could allow the AI to "think" in these terms.