Rating Improvements

PSUColonel · 11-15-2013, 06:15 PM

While I realize (I think) defensive ratings can and do improve, (although I am not sure if it's just position experience...can arm strength, range or arm improve?) I was wondering the same about base running and stealing ability? I think it would be very tough for speed to improve, but I am wondering about the others. Any thoughts or "knowing" on this is appreciated. Thanks.

injury log · 11-15-2013, 07:28 PM

Yes, all of the defensive ratings can improve, at least while a player is young, though they can also drop if a player gains a lot of weight. You'll know often, through international scouting, discover a 16 year old shortstop who doesn't look capable of playing the position, but over time his ratings will often rise to a level where he can be decent. That was one of the most important changes to the defensive model in OOTP14 - in earlier versions of OOTP those ratings were static until a player started to age, and then they'd fall off a cliff pretty quickly. Speed and Stealing can also improve with time, though I'm not sure about Baserunning.

PSUColonel · 11-15-2013, 08:37 PM

to me, base running and stealing is something that can be taught, but not speed...but that is just my take...how it is in OOTP is another matter.

Lukas Berger · 11-15-2013, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

to me, base running and stealing is something that can be taught, but not speed...but that is just my take...how it is in OOTP is another matter.

I'd tend to agree.

PSUColonel · 11-15-2013, 08:52 PM

where can we find answers to questions like these? Seriously, this is the 14th edition, and for reasons I will never know, there is no official or unofficial documentation regarding things like this. Not so much the secrets of how OOTP works under the hood, but just strategy about who to sign, release, draft etc... It would be nice to know what players may or may not be capable of.

injury log · 11-15-2013, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

to me, base running and stealing is something that can be taught, but not speed...

Well, I'm certainly a faster runner now than I was when I was two years old, so clearly speed can improve. It's just a question of the age at which speed should stop improving.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

where can we find answers to questions like these?

Did you not just find the answer here?

D-BacksJosh · 11-15-2013, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

to me, base running and stealing is something that can be taught, but not speed...but that is just my take...how it is in OOTP is another matter.

Speed can most definitely be taught.

Lukas Berger · 11-15-2013, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-BacksJosh

Speed can most definitely be taught.

Care to elaborate?

D-BacksJosh · 11-15-2013, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lukasberger

Care to elaborate?

Well, to be literal, I do not think raw speed can be taught. But with training someone can be taught to increase their speed. Otherwise there wouldn't be a 'speed coach' in track and field. Therefore speed ratings that improve are completely realistic to me.

Lukas Berger · 11-15-2013, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-BacksJosh

Well, to be literal, I do not think raw speed can be taught. But with training someone can be taught to increase their speed. Otherwise there wouldn't be a 'speed coach' in track and field. Therefore speed ratings that improve are completely realistic to me.

Makes sense, I guess. I wouldn't think speed should be able to improve much, but maybe it could a little.

injury log · 11-15-2013, 10:42 PM

Whether "speed" (with the small 's') can improve isn't really the question anyway, despite how I phrased my previous post -- the real question is whether "Speed", as OOTP uses it, can improve. Speed combines with the Steal rating to determine how often a player attempts to steal, and determines how many XBHs go for triples. So the real question is whether a player can learn to become a more aggressive basestealer and baserunner, and I'd suspect the answer to that question is yes.

Lukas Berger · 11-15-2013, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by injury log

So the real question is whether a player can learn to become a more aggressive basestealer and baserunner, and I'd suspect the answer to that question is yes.

Agreed.

RchW · 11-15-2013, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-BacksJosh

Well, to be literal, I do not think raw speed can be taught. But with training someone can be taught to increase their speed. Otherwise there wouldn't be a 'speed coach' in track and field. Therefore speed ratings that improve are completely realistic to me.

Baseball isn't track and field. The benefit would never outweigh the coaching time (who would coach) and the practicing required to refine running technique at the level to where a useful speed improvement is noticed. Can you imagine a hitter taking less BP to practice running technique?

Baseball is not a practice sport because it is played every day. Players do work on improvement but it is gradual improvement vs the intensity of practice seen in the weekly sports.

PSUColonel · 11-15-2013, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by injury log

Well, I'm certainly a faster runner now than I was when I was two years old, so clearly speed can improve. It's just a question of the age at which speed should stop improving.

Did you not just find the answer here?

well, yes lol, but it just seems to me things like this should be documented...that's all.

PSUColonel · 11-15-2013, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by injury log

Whether "speed" (with the small 's') can improve isn't really the question anyway, despite how I phrased my previous post -- the real question is whether "Speed", as OOTP uses it, can improve. Speed combines with the Steal rating to determine how often a player attempts to steal, and determines how many XBHs go for triples. So the real question is whether a player can learn to become a more aggressive basestealer and baserunner, and I'd suspect the answer to that question is yes.

Similarly, does it (shouldn't it) also combine with range particularly in the outfield?

Lukas Berger · 11-15-2013, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

Similarly, does it (shouldn't it) also combine with range particularly in the outfield?

I'd say not. I think OOTP has this right as of now. There's actually less correlation between speed and range irl than you'd think.

f.e. In the outfield Andruw Jones, Garry Maddox, Jim Edmonds etc. never had great speed as such but had legendary range.

Same for Jose Iglesias, Mark Belanger and Rey Ordonez as SS's. Not to mention 3Bmen like Brooks Robinson, Clete Boyer, Graig Nettles, Adrian Beltre etc.

There's certainly some correlation between speed and defensive range, but not so much as it might appear at first imo.

PSUColonel · 11-15-2013, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lukasberger

I'd say not. I think OOTP has this right as of now. There's actually less correlation between speed and range irl than you'd think.

f.e. In the outfield Andruw Jones, Garry Maddox, Jim Edmonds etc. never had great speed as such but had legendary range.

Same for Jose Iglesias, Mark Belanger and Rey Ordonez as infielders. Not to mention 3Bmen like Brooks Robinson, Clete Boyer, Graig Nettles, Adrian Beltre etc.

There's certainly some correlation between speed and defensive range, but not so much as it might appear at first imo.

I guess you are right...but like you said, I do think it should have some correlation. For instance, can you think of an example of a very fast player with horrible range?

Lukas Berger · 11-15-2013, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I guess you are right...but like you said, I do think it should have some correlation. For instance, can you think of an example of a very fast player with horrible range?

Well, I can think of some that were pretty horrible fielders overall. Not exactly sure how much range had to do with it.

Guys like Lonnie Smith, Vince Coleman, maybe Willie Wilson to a lesser extent. Blanking on more modern examples but I'm sure there are a few.

Lukas Berger · 11-15-2013, 11:12 PM

I agree with you that there's definitely a general correlation. All things being equal you'd typically assume the faster player has more range.

It just seems like most of the true top draw fielders so far as range goes were/are much more instinctive/intelligent than merely fast.

D-BacksJosh · 11-15-2013, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

Baseball isn't track and field. The benefit would never outweigh the coaching time (who would coach) and the practicing required to refine running technique at the level to where a useful speed improvement is noticed. Can you imagine a hitter taking less BP to practice running technique?

Baseball is not a practice sport because it is played every day. Players do work on improvement but it is gradual improvement vs the intensity of practice seen in the weekly sports.

Absolutely, baseball is not track and field, never thought it was. Aside from wind sprints I am sure players don't have a speed training regime they follow during the season. Some do have a special workout for speed in the off season however (Jimmy Rollins). I agree any increase in OOTP should be slight, I don't want to see Bengie Molina come back the next season with blazing speed. I was just replying to the suggestion that speed could not be taught, which indeed it can be taught (or improved) regardless of what you are doing, whether it be track and field, football, soccer, baseball or running from the in-laws.

11-15-2013, 06:15 PM	#1
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,106	Rating Improvements While I realize (I think) defensive ratings can and do improve, (although I am not sure if it's just position experience...can arm strength, range or arm improve?) I was wondering the same about base running and stealing ability? I think it would be very tough for speed to improve, but I am wondering about the others. Any thoughts or "knowing" on this is appreciated. Thanks.

11-15-2013, 07:28 PM	#2
injury log Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Toronto Posts: 9,162	Yes, all of the defensive ratings can improve, at least while a player is young, though they can also drop if a player gains a lot of weight. You'll know often, through international scouting, discover a 16 year old shortstop who doesn't look capable of playing the position, but over time his ratings will often rise to a level where he can be decent. That was one of the most important changes to the defensive model in OOTP14 - in earlier versions of OOTP those ratings were static until a player started to age, and then they'd fall off a cliff pretty quickly. Speed and Stealing can also improve with time, though I'm not sure about Baserunning.

11-15-2013, 08:37 PM	#3
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,106	to me, base running and stealing is something that can be taught, but not speed...but that is just my take...how it is in OOTP is another matter.

11-15-2013, 08:52 PM	#5
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,106	where can we find answers to questions like these? Seriously, this is the 14th edition, and for reasons I will never know, there is no official or unofficial documentation regarding things like this. Not so much the secrets of how OOTP works under the hood, but just strategy about who to sign, release, draft etc... It would be nice to know what players may or may not be capable of.

11-15-2013, 10:42 PM	#11
injury log Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Toronto Posts: 9,162	Whether "speed" (with the small 's') can improve isn't really the question anyway, despite how I phrased my previous post -- the real question is whether "Speed", as OOTP uses it, can improve. Speed combines with the Steal rating to determine how often a player attempts to steal, and determines how many XBHs go for triples. So the real question is whether a player can learn to become a more aggressive basestealer and baserunner, and I'd suspect the answer to that question is yes.

11-15-2013, 11:12 PM	#19
Lukas Berger OOTP Developments Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Nice, Côte d'Azur, France Posts: 21,365	I agree with you that there's definitely a general correlation. All things being equal you'd typically assume the faster player has more range. It just seems like most of the true top draw fielders so far as range goes were/are much more instinctive/intelligent than merely fast.