Incredibly stupid trade A.I (involving draft picks)

toranaga · 10-03-2013, 09:00 PM

Hello, first of all thank you for making this game it definately has a lot of potential. English is not my native language so i'll try to do my best. By the way i'm using the latest 1.0.3.

I just want to report on the trading AI which is all over the place. Aside from the fact that it's too easy to acquire picks from other teams, that is not the biggest issue here.

The real problem is, It is WAY, way too easy to acquire star players by trading your draft picks to the other teams. It's like the value of draft picks is multiplied by 10 compared to real life.

For example, As the Canadiens I'm offering Brendan Gallagher (7.5 potential!!!) to Colorado in exchange for... Gabriel Landeskog(9.5 elite player!!) and all i need to do is add a 7th round pick... yes, a 7th!! from the 2015 entry draft and Colorado is like; Sure !!! Take my captain, born leader, elite left winger in exchange for your injury prone midget sniper, no problem!!

I've played half of a season and i managed to acquire Landeskog, Huberdeau, Mcdonagh, Yakupov, Domi, Drouin & Mackinnon... it's ruining it for me.

thanks for reading me

Risk2014 · 10-03-2013, 10:02 PM

Just posted about the trade logic too. I am getting a refund. This game wants to make me rip my hair out.

Mafarfloune · 10-04-2013, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toranaga

Take my captain, born leader, elite left winger in exchange for your injury prone midget sniper, no problem!!

You do know Gallagher has never been seriously injured ever, and has yet to miss an NHL/AHL game due to injury, right?

AngryCoach · 10-04-2013, 01:29 AM

I noticed this same issue. Draft picks are way overvalued.

toranaga · 10-04-2013, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mafarfloune

You do know Gallagher has never been seriously injured ever, and has yet to miss an NHL/AHL game due to injury, right?

He had a couple of concussions prior to his nhl career plus one in early 2013, and the way he plays.... kid's not gonna last very long. I love that player though. Anyways the whole point was, the trading AI is terribad when it comes to draft picks

yzerwing · 10-04-2013, 02:08 AM

The game also seems to overate mediocre AI players while undervaluing the human controlled 2nd and 3rd line type players. Player rights values are still off, although better then they were.

One thing that is noticed throughout all the players, is many players are well off where they should be for potential and overall talent, while players like for example, Derek Dorsett, seem to be overrated.

I took Washington to control and while Mikhail Grabovski struggled last year, he is rated lower then Troy Brouwer.

AngryCoach · 10-04-2013, 03:14 AM

Player ratings are always open to debate but normally that is a non-issue because of the ability to use an editor to adjust PA and attributes. While that menu is currently in the game, it does not seem to be enabled. The full editor is one of the several features needing to be released before this game is truly playable.

thepete · 10-04-2013, 04:32 AM

I'm 5-6 seasons into a game and exploiting the AI is real easy. In every season I've traded for the first overall pick and more often than not the second and/or third overall as well. Just offer a declining player with 7+ rating (pending UFA is fine) and a middling prospect/rights and/or a low draft pick and voila, you can draft the next kid with 9+ potential.

That being said, it's a vast improvement from how the trade AI used to be...

geckon · 10-04-2013, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toranaga

By the way i'm using the latest 1.0.3.

I agree that trading AI needs som work but just for the record.. 1.0.3 is not the latest. There is 1.0.10 beta (yes, it's beta and there is a "proper" patch to come).

Tompa8989 · 10-04-2013, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckon

I agree that trading AI needs som work but just for the record.. 1.0.3 is not the latest. There is 1.0.10 beta (yes, it's beta and there is a "proper" patch to come).

You mean 1.2.10 beta right?

Sebastian Palkowski · 10-04-2013, 08:28 AM

Not saying that the Trade AI needs not more tweaking but in this special case it is not as bad as the OP writes it: looking in the editor Gallaghers true offensive potential is 745 and Landeskogs is 760, so Landeskog is pretty overrated by the world and your scouts. Adding the Draft Pick closes the gap even more (from Colorado's standpoint) so they make the trade.

Always remember that the game does not know names, just the numbers behind the player and you always have to factor in scouts.

geckon · 10-04-2013, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tompa8989

You mean 1.2.10 beta right?

Yep, sorry.

skrollins · 10-05-2013, 04:29 PM

I can tolerate questionable ratings like putting Gallagher close to Landeskog - that's no different from anything EA's ever done with their ratings, which allow similar trade exploits (and really, that's a lot of the fun of the GM modes, IMO.) however, the overvaluing of picks (especially the 5th-7th ones, which I've found you can use to finalize pretty much any ridiculous trade imaginable) needs to be fixed.

Mordrehl · 10-05-2013, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sebastian Palkowski

Not saying that the Trade AI needs not more tweaking but in this special case it is not as bad as the OP writes it: looking in the editor Gallaghers true offensive potential is 745 and Landeskogs is 760, so Landeskog is pretty overrated by the world and your scouts. Adding the Draft Pick closes the gap even more (from Colorado's standpoint) so they make the trade.

Always remember that the game does not know names, just the numbers behind the player and you always have to factor in scouts.

My issue with this statement, is the AI shouldn't be making it's decisions off the hidden Offensive/Defensive Rating but off a combination of Scouted Ability, Scouted Potential, Reputation and Performance. Heck even player type should be in there (which we have no clue about anymore since the Scouting tab was removed). Ie you don't necessarily trade a 1st line offensive player for a 2nd line two-way forward.

EDIT : Not at home, but I've noted that two players with 750 offensive rating will perform quite differently depending on their "Hockey Sense" attribute. I think that's the attribute I mean.

Risk2014 · 10-06-2013, 12:33 PM

Yeah the trade logic is poo I tell you just made a trade to edmonton for yakupov and traded skille, R. Craig M. Mckenna and 6th round pick and a 7 th. That is a crazy bad lopsided trade but I like it.

10-03-2013, 09:00 PM	#1
toranaga Bat Boy Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 9	Incredibly stupid trade A.I (involving draft picks) Hello, first of all thank you for making this game it definately has a lot of potential. English is not my native language so i'll try to do my best. By the way i'm using the latest 1.0.3. I just want to report on the trading AI which is all over the place. Aside from the fact that it's too easy to acquire picks from other teams, that is not the biggest issue here. The real problem is, It is WAY, way too easy to acquire star players by trading your draft picks to the other teams. It's like the value of draft picks is multiplied by 10 compared to real life. For example, As the Canadiens I'm offering Brendan Gallagher (7.5 potential!!!) to Colorado in exchange for... Gabriel Landeskog(9.5 elite player!!) and all i need to do is add a 7th round pick... yes, a 7th!! from the 2015 entry draft and Colorado is like; Sure !!! Take my captain, born leader, elite left winger in exchange for your injury prone midget sniper, no problem!! I've played half of a season and i managed to acquire Landeskog, Huberdeau, Mcdonagh, Yakupov, Domi, Drouin & Mackinnon... it's ruining it for me. thanks for reading me

10-04-2013, 02:08 AM	#6
yzerwing All Star Starter Join Date: May 2012 Location: Ontario/Canada Posts: 1,940	The game also seems to overate mediocre AI players while undervaluing the human controlled 2nd and 3rd line type players. Player rights values are still off, although better then they were. One thing that is noticed throughout all the players, is many players are well off where they should be for potential and overall talent, while players like for example, Derek Dorsett, seem to be overrated. I took Washington to control and while Mikhail Grabovski struggled last year, he is rated lower then Troy Brouwer. __________________

10-04-2013, 08:28 AM	#11
Sebastian Palkowski Developer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Hamburg, Germany Posts: 5,339	Not saying that the Trade AI needs not more tweaking but in this special case it is not as bad as the OP writes it: looking in the editor Gallaghers true offensive potential is 745 and Landeskogs is 760, so Landeskog is pretty overrated by the world and your scouts. Adding the Draft Pick closes the gap even more (from Colorado's standpoint) so they make the trade. Always remember that the game does not know names, just the numbers behind the player and you always have to factor in scouts. __________________ Buy Franchise Hockey Manager 11

10-03-2013, 10:02 PM	#2
Risk2014 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 212 Infractions: 1/0 (0)	Just posted about the trade logic too. I am getting a refund. This game wants to make me rip my hair out.

10-04-2013, 01:29 AM	#4
AngryCoach Bat Boy Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 4	I noticed this same issue. Draft picks are way overvalued.

10-04-2013, 03:14 AM	#7
AngryCoach Bat Boy Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 4	Player ratings are always open to debate but normally that is a non-issue because of the ability to use an editor to adjust PA and attributes. While that menu is currently in the game, it does not seem to be enabled. The full editor is one of the several features needing to be released before this game is truly playable.

10-04-2013, 04:32 AM	#8
thepete Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 110	I'm 5-6 seasons into a game and exploiting the AI is real easy. In every season I've traded for the first overall pick and more often than not the second and/or third overall as well. Just offer a declining player with 7+ rating (pending UFA is fine) and a middling prospect/rights and/or a low draft pick and voila, you can draft the next kid with 9+ potential. That being said, it's a vast improvement from how the trade AI used to be...

10-05-2013, 04:29 PM	#13
skrollins Bat Boy Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 12	I can tolerate questionable ratings like putting Gallagher close to Landeskog - that's no different from anything EA's ever done with their ratings, which allow similar trade exploits (and really, that's a lot of the fun of the GM modes, IMO.) however, the overvaluing of picks (especially the 5th-7th ones, which I've found you can use to finalize pretty much any ridiculous trade imaginable) needs to be fixed.

10-06-2013, 12:33 PM	#15
Risk2014 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 212 Infractions: 1/0 (0)	Yeah the trade logic is poo I tell you just made a trade to edmonton for yakupov and traded skille, R. Craig M. Mckenna and 6th round pick and a 7 th. That is a crazy bad lopsided trade but I like it.