Lions & Mariucci, oh and Cowher

[Tom Trunzo]

Being a longtime Detroit Lions sufferer, I truly hope Mariucci is the man that can bring them back to their competitive days. Of course, being a Steeler fan I would like to see Cowher somewhere else. Never was a Cowher fan!

[majormet]

Mariucci is going to build that team into a powerhouse, it is perfect for him, He is from Michigan, has a QB with amazing skills already and a good fan base.

Cowher is an amazing coach, the Steelers problem is not him, it is luring free agents. He gets the most out of his team.

Top 5 coaches in the NFL

1. Cowher
2. Reid
3. Billek
4. Gruden
5. Fassel

[Mike Ivie]

Mariucci being hired by the Lions is the least surprising hiring of the offseason. I can't believe Detroit even went through the charade of interviewing other coaches. I would not put Cowher at the top of the list. Top 5 or 6, sure. Zero Super Bow wins for as many years as he has been there? can not put him at #1

[majormet]

Cowher has less talent to work with, hard to win a title with the players he loses.

[CMH]

Originally posted by Mike Ivie
I can't believe Detroit even went through the charade of interviewing other coaches.

Under league rules they have to seriously interview minority coach candidates - which I think is the stupidest agreement in sports.

Surprisingly, Cochran and his team believe that the Lions didn't work their end of the agreement.

I just think the rule is ridiculous b/c you have teams like Detroit that have one coach in mind and only that one coach. Mariucci wasn't hired b/c he is non-black. He was hired b/c of his track record and he was from Michigan. No other perfect coach for that Lions team.

[kingfc22]

I totally agree with YankeePride. This has to be one of the dumbest rules out there. I'm all for equal opportunity and all that jazz, but everybody knew that once Mariucci was fired by the Niners that he would end up in Detroit. You shouldn't be forced to interview somebody for a job just because the law says so. I think that is lower than not offering the spot at all.

[majormet]

Plus it wastes time, some assistant from the Chargers who is black should fly out to Detroit to meet for a job he will never get?????

[Tom Trunzo]

I agree, if all sports were 50/50 or a % of nationalities and ethnicity, things sure would look different and not play as well. Everyone deserves their fair shake but it should not be a forced issue. I still do not like Cowher, I think he chokes when the game is on the line. Granted Nedney took a dive but it should have never gotten to that point.

[CMH]

The problem that Cochran and his team need to realize is that most of the coaches in sports are white.

Reason? B/c back when these coaches were playing the majority of sports were white players.

Today, the majority is black. Look at the NBA. All of the new coaches are basically black. Nate McMillan, Byron Scott, Isiah Thomas, Alvin Gentry, and Doc Rivers.

Why? B/c those players played during a time when black players were beginning to fill the benches. And its only gonna grow.

The same will happen in baseball with more latin/black coaches filling the dugout and in football. They just have to wait another 10 years or so.

In 15 years, I bet it will be hard to find a non-minority coach in football or basketball.

[bigphesta]

and at that time are we going to require that there be a certian percentage of white coaches?

[Eckstein 4 Prez]

While I agree that quota systems and forced interviewing are not great solutions, I have to at least play devil's advocate with this one.

Most of the coaches/managers in pro sports today are men in their 50s. If a coach is 55 years old now, that means he'd likely have been a prime player about 25-30 years ago - 1973-78. Is anyone here seriously arguing that most of the players were white in 1978???

Because I can tell you right now, that just ain't so. From Bill James' New Historical Abstract:

"The impact of black athletes on [MLB] reached its peak in the mid-seventies, and has declined slowly from 1975 to the present."

Also - recall the top team of the 70s from the NFL - the Pittsburgh Steelers. Of course Bradshaw and a few of their other stars were white, but think about how many African-American stars they had. If you happen to be more familiar with some other NFL team from the 70s - go ahead, think of them instead. The game was certainly not white-dominated. And I'm not even going to go into the NBA - I don't think that's an argument anyone will seriously make.

Clearly, the issue is not, "let's wait until we have some black former players that we can make into coaches." That's an absurd argument - and reality is FAR more complicated.

The reality of the situation is, blacks were generally not accepted in positions of authority until VERY recently - and in some quarters, are still not accepted as such. I'm sure everyone has heard the stories of superstar black high school quarterbacks being converted to receivers or defensive backs. This has been endemic to sports for many years - minorities were simply not accepted in the "cerebral positions" on the field until recently. Until the 1980s and 90s, whites predominated in the positions such as catcher and quarterback, that were thought to provide the best background for an aspiring coach. So I do agree with the part where this changes over time - because society is beginning to wake up to the fact that there are plenty of minority players who are successful because they are smart and savvy, just as there are white players who get by on raw talent alone.

That said, I think that having someone like Cochran out there making noise is generally a good thing, because it keeps focus on the issue. However, in the case of the Lions, they clearly had one guy in mind all along - just let them hire their guy and pipe down.

Hope I haven't offended anyone with my rant - I just couldn't let the assumption that the "trickle-down" theory would work on its own once we had some more retired minority players out there linger. It's wrong, and it doesn't work. It's been 16 years since Al Campanis, folks.... and now we're finally starting to see things equalize.

[CMH]

Originally posted by bigphesta
and at that time are we going to require that there be a certian percentage of white coaches?

probably not and that's the sad thing.

What I find funny is that people like Cochran argue every day that we should ignore color, race, etc.

Yet, they still push for rules that not only single out minorities, but segregate them from the rules that have been in place for years.

How does that make sense? And then we have minorities that like guys like Cochran. I think guys like Cochran are full of bull. Someone needs to shut him up.

This NFL rule just seperates black coaches from white coaches. It's stupid. It's not looking past color. It's only forcing that we continue to look at everyone as different.

Reasons like this is why I just don't see the world ever looking past color. It will never happen. Not in my life time and I can't imagine it happening any lifetime after that.

[CMH]

Originally posted by Eckstein 4 Prez
While I agree that quota systems and forced interviewing are not great solutions, I have to at least play devil's advocate with this one.

Most of the coaches/managers in pro sports today are men in their 50s. If a coach is 55 years old now, that means he'd likely have been a prime player about 25-30 years ago - 1973-78. Is anyone here seriously arguing that most of the players were white in 1978???

Because I can tell you right now, that just ain't so. From Bill James' New Historical Abstract:

"The impact of black athletes on [MLB] reached its peak in the mid-seventies, and has declined slowly from 1975 to the present."

Also - recall the top team of the 70s from the NFL - the Pittsburgh Steelers. Of course Bradshaw and a few of their other stars were white, but think about how many African-American stars they had. If you happen to be more familiar with some other NFL team from the 70s - go ahead, think of them instead. The game was certainly not white-dominated. And I'm not even going to go into the NBA - I don't think that's an argument anyone will seriously make.

Clearly, the issue is not, "let's wait until we have some black former players that we can make into coaches." That's an absurd argument - and reality is FAR more complicated.

The reality of the situation is, blacks were generally not accepted in positions of authority until VERY recently - and in some quarters, are still not accepted as such. I'm sure everyone has heard the stories of superstar black high school quarterbacks being converted to receivers or defensive backs. This has been endemic to sports for many years - minorities were simply not accepted in the "cerebral positions" on the field until recently. Until the 1980s and 90s, whites predominated in the positions such as catcher and quarterback, that were thought to provide the best background for an aspiring coach. So I do agree with the part where this changes over time - because society is beginning to wake up to the fact that there are plenty of minority players who are successful because they are smart and savvy, just as there are white players who get by on raw talent alone.

That said, I think that having someone like Cochran out there making noise is generally a good thing, because it keeps focus on the issue. However, in the case of the Lions, they clearly had one guy in mind all along - just let them hire their guy and pipe down.

Hope I haven't offended anyone with my rant - I just couldn't let the assumption that the "trickle-down" theory would work on its own once we had some more retired minority players out there linger. It's wrong, and it doesn't work. It's been 16 years since Al Campanis, folks.... and now we're finally starting to see things equalize.

I see where you are comin from but I just don't agree with one thing.

yes, black players made a huge impact in the 70's but think about where they were mentally at the time. In the 70's they were basically fighting for position to be recognized. They probably did not have the mind set to come in and continue their careers past the playing days. At the moment, their only concern might have been to just make it to the pros and play well enough to survive in the league.

*Note I said MIGHT. I am not one to judge people's attitudes during a time I was not even born.

However, today you look at black athletes and they think well past their playing careers. They've already made a statement in sports and most sports are already affliated with black players.

In my predominantly white college, it is assumed that if you are a minority that you play for one of the school's athletic programs. Yes this is just one small sample, but one sample is enough to prove to me that there is a stereotype. YOu can look at it as bad or good. I think of it as good in a sense for those that are playing the game professionaly today.

B/c if they really care to continue their careers after playing then they have the ability to. Its a fact that there are more black players in sports in the 90's/2000's then in any other era. Ofcourse, that's an obvious. But it plays a huge role in coaching opportunities in the future.

Think of the players in the NFL now and think of a list of players you'd probably see coaching in the future.

I wouldn't be surprised to see someone like Harrison, Sapp, Kordell Stewart, Terrell Davis, etc. thinking about coaching sometime in the future. ANd really, would you as an owner not give them a chance??? That's four players I just named. That's two more than the NFL has today in the sidelines. That's a huge difference really.

I really believe that in time we'll see more minority coaches. Enforcing these rules does not help. It only seperates black coaches from white coaches. People actually made a big deal that Notre Dame hired their first black coach. Why? I thought that was ridiculous. It shouldn't matter that the guy is black. All it should matter is that he can coach and he proved it this year.

In time. That's how I feel. But I also understand your argument.

[PittPanther]

Originally posted by majormet
Mariucci is going to build that team into a powerhouse, it is perfect for him, He is from Michigan, has a QB with amazing skills already and a good fan base.

Cowher is an amazing coach, the Steelers problem is not him, it is luring free agents. He gets the most out of his team.

Top 5 coaches in the NFL

1. Cowher
2. Reid
3. Billek
4. Gruden
5. Fassel

Cowher is an awful game coach. He might be a good motivator, but they lose in big games becaue he gets out-foxed.

[Rob in Phoenix]

The most underrated coach was Jerry Glanville. I'm not sure why he has not been hired. The 49ers could use him.
Nothing could beat the run-n-shoot offense. Nothing.

[The Professor]

The most underrated coach was Jerry Glanville. I'm not sure why he has not been hired. The 49ers could use him.
Nothing could beat the run-n-shoot offense. Nothing.

Right on!!!!

[KC]

Originally posted by Rob in Phoenix
The most underrated coach was Jerry Glanville. I'm not sure why he has not been hired. The 49ers could use him.
Nothing could beat the run-n-shoot offense. Nothing.

I'm an Oiler's fan. Unfortunately, the Bills did. If the Oiler's had more of a running attack than Lorenzo White, perhaps they would have beat Buffalo in the AFC Championship.

They should have started ran the clock down from the start of the third quarter.

[Eckstein 4 Prez]

YankeePride, I actually agree with many of your arguments too. I think things are moving in the right direction and in time they'll get there, as long as we keep an awareness of these historical problems.

I just didn't like the argument being put forward that today's coackes played at a time when there were fewer blacks/minorities in sports, because it is demonstrably untrue.

Minorities are close to the point where they can claim a level of equality in sports. Now if we could just improve education in lower-income areas so that minorities at your school weren't assumed to be jocks...... we'd be getting somewhere. But that's another topic, for another day.

[CMH]

Originally posted by Eckstein 4 Prez
YankeePride, I actually agree with many of your arguments too. I think things are moving in the right direction and in time they'll get there, as long as we keep an awareness of these historical problems.

I just didn't like the argument being put forward that today's coackes played at a time when there were fewer blacks/minorities in sports, because it is demonstrably untrue.

Minorities are close to the point where they can claim a level of equality in sports. Now if we could just improve education in lower-income areas so that minorities at your school weren't assumed to be jocks...... we'd be getting somewhere. But that's another topic, for another day.

Agreed. You said it better than I could ever.

[magicmike]

I loved watching Glanville coach. And for you fans of the run-n-shoot, the original architect of that offense, June Jones, has the run-n-shoot going so well at the University of Hawaii that the school has one of the top-rated offenses in the country and is starting to send more players to the NFL, like the Broncos' WR Ashlie Lelie. I agree it's hard to win in the NFL without a sound running game, but the run-n-shoot is fun to watch.