Boxing Manager - FM Style

The_Cobra · 03-11-2013, 10:00 AM

Not sure if anyone remembers me, I started work a while back on a boxing manager project and threw up some screenshots of the project as it stood.
That project has since failed due to dataloss (plus the project itself was not ambitious enough).

The first project I attempted was going to be a visual basic app that would run alongside TBCB and would act as its management module. I started down this route to begin with because my coding skill was not very high. This was the unambitious project that failed (fragged hard drive).

After this, I started work on a more ambitious project which was to be a fully standalone management game with its own fight engine. That project also stalled due to some personal issues. At this point I had no experience in SQL programming (databases), so I was trying to do an impossible job in an impossible way by not using a database. This was a project that was always destined to fail because of that reason alone but when the personal issues hit, it made it that much easier to walk away from it.

It turns out this was the best thing that could have happened. I have since resolved my personal stuff and for the last year, have really hit the SQL textboolks hard and am pleased to say I am now proficient enough with database programming in order to make this project what it should be.

For those of you familiar with Football Manager, think of my game as boxings equivalent of that. An ambitious project yes, an impossible one? Not by a long shot, its well within my means (just really a time issue).

I re-started work in Dec 2012. Before developing the full FM style game, I have decided that I need to develop the fight engine for it on a smaller scaled game. I have chosen the Super Six tournament from a couple of years ago as the basis for the first iteration of the game. Because the Super Six tournament only had (or was supposed to have) 6 boxers, and a closed-date structure, this acts as a development vehicle on which I can develop the fight engine (quite easily the most complicated part of the game). It's much easier to build the fight engine when you're only working with a database with 6 boxers in it. Once the fight engine is developed in this Super Six version of the game to a high enough standard, then I plan to port it over to a full Football Manager style game with an open ended date structure that allows you to play on indefinitely. The full version of the game will attempt to re-create the world of boxing, and not just based around a closed-structure single tournament. Like I say, I'm working on the closed-structure project first only because its easier to develop the fight engine like that.

I'm 4 months into the Super Six Project, and I envisage it will be finished at some point in the next 3 months. When this is finished and the bugs have been ironed out of the fight engine, then I will get to work straight away on the full version of the game. I dont have an ETA on that.

There will be some limitations in Super Six that wont be there in the full game. Such as, due to the structure of the SS tournament, there is very little scope for managers to make fights of their own, since the tournament organisers have already done that for you. Super Six will play a bit like a playable demo of the full game. Imagine a Football Manager game that runs for 2 seasons and then ends (the SS tournament ran over 2 years in real life and will do so in the game too). I say it will play like a demo, but thats because its less of a game, and more of a development tool for me to build the fight engine on. It's purpose will be to provide me with a pre-structured list of fights that can be passed through the fight engine. There will still be things for the manager to do, as I will be using Super Six to develop other functions for the full game as well as the fight engine.

To put it short, what you're really waiting for is the full game, but when Super Six is finished, I will release it to the public anyway just so that you can have a taste of things to come.

I will drop a post here once a month to keep you in the loop. Later on today I will pop back and throw up some screenies of some of the work I have done so far.

Just to recap then, I'm 4 months into Super Six development and it feels like there's another 3 months to go. As soon as that is finished I will port the fight engine directly to a new project and that will form the basis for the full game. How long this will take to develop I dont have a clue, but seeing as though the most difficult part will already be developed (the fight engine) then the development of the full game should not be long at all, probably less than 6 months after Super Six is finished (but thats just a guess).

Hope you all are well. Bear with me and I'll be back later with those screenshots of development so far.

P.S @ ROB (Morris), if your're still knocking around, I'll mail you in the next couple of days. Would like you to do some testing at some point if your still up for it.

The_Cobra · 03-12-2013, 03:49 AM

Oops, meant to drop these in here yesterday but got caught up. I gets there in the end.

Still looking threadbare and not much to look at but you can see that I'm not BS'ing you at least. Progress is coming along at a fair rate.....I'll leave it like this til next month because there wont be much else to say until I've made more progress. You are now up to speed with where I'm @. Salut.

Take care.

Roco · 03-12-2013, 03:58 AM

Will this have every conceivable fighter in the database much like FM does with football players?

The_Cobra · 03-14-2013, 04:15 AM

Hello mate, cheers for your interest.

To answer the question, yes. But, if you remember your history, FM started out as a shadow of the game it is now, with a much smaller database. Their game and their database has vastly grown over the years, the point being it's taken time to get it like that. So what I'm saying is, thats what we're aiming for, but it wont happen overnight. The long term view is that the database will get so huge, it'll even incorporate club boxers, and youth talent (like Football Manager does youth teams and non league football), but its important to remember that when FM started out, they never had youth teams or non league. That came later when they had established a smaller database involving just the main leagues. So thats the lesson we need to learn (or I need to learn). To take things slowly and be patient and build the database up in layers over time.
I certainly envisage that the first database we'll be working with will be large enough to get lost in, but not so huge that it will take me 5 years to build. Can you see where the balance is? When you're starting something
from scratch like this, you have to make it big enough to hold people's attention, but not so big that your forever working on it and never get anything released. So I'm not trying to be over ambitious. We'll do this in steps and build it up over time, just like Football Manager did (I remember when it was Championship Manager in the 1990's, they did'nt even have foreign leagues back then! Just 4 divisions to choose from but even so, the game was very very enjoyable even with such a snaller database, so I'm not trying to rain on your hopes or anything like that).

Sorry for waffling on, I realise a simple "yes" would have done but I'm trying to get across as much info as I can. Thanks for the question.

pisdpaul · 03-14-2013, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Cobra

The long term view is that the database will get so huge, it'll even incorporate club boxers, and youth talent (like Football Manager does youth teams and non league football), but its important to remember that when FM started out, they never had youth teams or non league. That came later when they had established a smaller database involving just the main leagues.

Yes thats true... I nagged Ov and Dobs for ages to include the Blue Square South but we only had a few teams. Then when blue square was finally added my team (BRTFC) was relegated to Rymans Prem so I still can t take them on! DOH!

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Cobra

We'll do this in steps and build it up over time, just like Football Manager did (I remember when it was Championship Manager in the 1990's, they did'nt even have foreign leagues back then! Just 4 divisions to choose from but even so, the game was very very enjoyable even with such a snaller database, so I'm not trying to rain on your hopes or anything like that).

Wow, your talking CM2 / 97/98 there... I joined SI as CM3 started, just as 97/98 was being finished. I recall CM3 having quite a few leagues at that stage.

I find it interesting that you guys are talking about a FM style game, as thats exactly what I am aiming for, as I used to work on FM/CM. In fact the FML and FMH versions are using my PISD code in the same way as TB2.6 and TB3! So we are in good stead!

Cap · 03-14-2013, 04:02 PM

Why does all this remind me of one of those westerns where the two cowboys playing cards suddenly rise up, chairs scraping, and fill their hands with deadly 44s....

Cap

professordp · 03-14-2013, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cap

Why does all this remind me of one of those westerns where the two cowboys playing cards suddenly rise up, chairs scraping, and fill their hands with deadly 44s....

Cap

The_Cobra · 03-15-2013, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pisdpaul

Yes thats true... I nagged Ov and Dobs for ages to include the Blue Square South but we only had a few teams. Then when blue square was finally added my team (BRTFC) was relegated to Rymans Prem so I still can t take them on! DOH!

Wow, your talking CM2 / 97/98 there... I joined SI as CM3 started, just as 97/98 was being finished. I recall CM3 having quite a few leagues at that stage.

I find it interesting that you guys are talking about a FM style game, as thats exactly what I am aiming for, as I used to work on FM/CM. In fact the FML and FMH versions are using my PISD code in the same way as TB2.6 and TB3! So we are in good stead!

Brilliant! Can I take it you are currently developing something? You'll have to forgive me, I've been away from this forum for a while and I'm not up to speed with who's working on what, if anything. Feel free to get in touch, I could probably learn a lot from communicating with you.

@ CAP - My ego is'nt that fragile!! If Paul is working on something at the same time as I am, then surely that can only be good for the community. Guess its like London buses, get nothing for years and then two turn up at the same time, but I dont see it as a reason to get the colts out!! On the contrary, competition only ever hones better performance! Besides, you never know what could happen - could both end up working together (stranger things have happened). It's interesting you should interpret things that way though.

The_Cobra · 03-15-2013, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pisdpaul

Yes thats true... I nagged Ov and Dobs for ages to include the Blue Square South but we only had a few teams. Then when blue square was finally added my team (BRTFC) was relegated to Rymans Prem so I still can t take them on! DOH!

P.S I have a lot to thank you for then. I'm a bit of a masochist, I LOVE managing non league in FM. I abandoned Prem teams quite some years ago (I'm a Forest fan, probably explains a lot!!). I had a similar problem to you recently in that Eastwood Town are the closest non league team to where I live so they were always my #1 destination as a new manager but they got relegated from the Blue Sq system last year so thats me shafted!

I'm really amped to know there is someone here who understands where I'm coming from and who obviously has bags of experience at this.

The_Cobra · 03-15-2013, 09:01 AM

By the way, cap, I interpret this meeting more like this:

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(I'm on the left btw)

....but for sure, it's not going to come to this:

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....because I have no intention of becoming this:

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pisdpaul · 03-15-2013, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Cobra

P.S I have a lot to thank you for then. I'm a bit of a masochist, I LOVE managing non league in FM. I abandoned Prem teams quite some years ago (I'm a Forest fan, probably explains a lot!!). I had a similar problem to you recently in that Eastwood Town are the closest non league team to where I live so they were always my #1 destination as a new manager but they got relegated from the Blue Sq system last year so thats me shafted!

I'm really amped to know there is someone here who understands where I'm coming from and who obviously has bags of experience at this.

So if you are promoted you go into Blue Square North... That means both our teams would need to be promoted twice before they meet in Blue Square Prem. I don;t know about Eastwood Town but Bognor are sliding into a comfortable mid table pos this season so it could be a while...

As for TB, I have lots of ideas and plans bubbling on the hob, but the first and most important step is to finish 2.6. This will provide a solid foundation to work from, and hopefully help fund the next version.

For those not in the Beta testing group, we are currently at Beta7 which is a minor milestone as it is "gameplay complete". This means all the basic game elements are there, fight cards, head to head and tournaments etc... There are still some 'house keeping' features left such as data table import and exports. I am currently half (ok maybe a third) of the way through importing TB2.5 saved games into 2.6. So we are not too far away....

pisdpaul · 03-15-2013, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Cobra

By the way, cap, I interpret this meeting more like this:

(I'm on the left btw)

....but for sure, it's not going to come to this:

....because I have no intention of becoming this:

So is it all gonna end by you trying to strike me down, however I vanish and become even more powerful!?!?!?! hawhawhahwhaw...

Cap · 03-15-2013, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pisdpaul

So if you are promoted you go into Blue Square North... That means both our teams would need to be promoted twice before they meet in Blue Square Prem. I don;t know about Eastwood Town but Bognor are sliding into a comfortable mid table pos this season so it could be a while...

As for TB, I have lots of ideas and plans bubbling on the hob, but the first and most important step is to finish 2.6. This will provide a solid foundation to work from, and hopefully help fund the next version.

For those not in the Beta testing group, we are currently at Beta7 which is a minor milestone as it is "gameplay complete". This means all the basic game elements are there, fight cards, head to head and tournaments etc... There are still some 'house keeping' features left such as data table import and exports. I am currently half (ok maybe a third) of the way through importing TB2.5 saved games into 2.6. So we are not too far away....

Oh oh! Now you'll have to kill yourself for revealing secrets of Title Bout testing!!

Cap

P.S. I doubt anyone actually uses that Head-to-Head gambling thing, so you could probably ditch it if it helps move things along.

pisdpaul · 03-15-2013, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cap

P.S. I doubt anyone actually uses that Head-to-Head gambling thing, so you could probably ditch it if it helps move things along.

I wish you'd said that a few weeks ago as I spent a week doing it! However it is working now so I might as well leave it in.

The_Cobra · 03-15-2013, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pisdpaul

So is it all gonna end by you trying to strike me down, however I vanish and become even more powerful!?!?!?! hawhawhahwhaw...

LOL. Good deal for you. I'll have to settle for getting to wear a cool looking facemask and developing the breathing problem of a 40 a day smoker! I've got the breathing problem, I just need the mask!!!

Paul, would you mind pm'ing me your email address? I've got a question I want to run past you, but its about the direction of my project and I'd feel more comfortable talking to you directly. Would you mind?

Cap · 03-15-2013, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pisdpaul

I wish you'd said that a few weeks ago as I spent a week doing it! However it is working now so I might as well leave it in.

Actually, besides a post in 2007, I also mentioned it to you June 19 of last year......

I tried to tell ya!

Cap

RingKings · 03-26-2013, 09:19 PM

this is mighty impressive!!

RANGER11JP · 03-29-2013, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pisdpaul

I wish you'd said that a few weeks ago as I spent a week doing it! However it is working now so I might as well leave it in.

I swear that I asked this question myself. I looked at the Head-T-Head once and never saw the point to go back!

JP

Hanson Bros · 10-05-2013, 04:13 AM

This seems to have gone the same direction as version 1.3 ... gone

Cap · 10-05-2013, 09:29 AM

Same as the guy who invented a car engine that ran on water......

Don't give up hope so soon. Give it a day or two.

Cap

03-14-2013, 04:02 PM	#6
Cap Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Large Province in God's Country Posts: 7,976	Why does all this remind me of one of those westerns where the two cowboys playing cards suddenly rise up, chairs scraping, and fill their hands with deadly 44s.... Cap Attached Images __________________ "...There were Giants in Those Days.."

10-05-2013, 04:13 AM	#19
Hanson Bros Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 2,006	This seems to have gone the same direction as version 1.3 ... gone __________________ LBA UTBA3

10-05-2013, 09:29 AM	#20
Cap Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Large Province in God's Country Posts: 7,976	Same as the guy who invented a car engine that ran on water...... Don't give up hope so soon. Give it a day or two. Cap __________________ "...There were Giants in Those Days.." Last edited by Cap; 10-05-2013 at 09:31 AM.

03-11-2013, 10:00 AM	#1
The_Cobra Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Carlton, Nottingham - 5 mins down the road from Frochy! Posts: 28	Boxing Manager - FM Style Not sure if anyone remembers me, I started work a while back on a boxing manager project and threw up some screenshots of the project as it stood. That project has since failed due to dataloss (plus the project itself was not ambitious enough). The first project I attempted was going to be a visual basic app that would run alongside TBCB and would act as its management module. I started down this route to begin with because my coding skill was not very high. This was the unambitious project that failed (fragged hard drive). After this, I started work on a more ambitious project which was to be a fully standalone management game with its own fight engine. That project also stalled due to some personal issues. At this point I had no experience in SQL programming (databases), so I was trying to do an impossible job in an impossible way by not using a database. This was a project that was always destined to fail because of that reason alone but when the personal issues hit, it made it that much easier to walk away from it. It turns out this was the best thing that could have happened. I have since resolved my personal stuff and for the last year, have really hit the SQL textboolks hard and am pleased to say I am now proficient enough with database programming in order to make this project what it should be. For those of you familiar with Football Manager, think of my game as boxings equivalent of that. An ambitious project yes, an impossible one? Not by a long shot, its well within my means (just really a time issue). I re-started work in Dec 2012. Before developing the full FM style game, I have decided that I need to develop the fight engine for it on a smaller scaled game. I have chosen the Super Six tournament from a couple of years ago as the basis for the first iteration of the game. Because the Super Six tournament only had (or was supposed to have) 6 boxers, and a closed-date structure, this acts as a development vehicle on which I can develop the fight engine (quite easily the most complicated part of the game). It's much easier to build the fight engine when you're only working with a database with 6 boxers in it. Once the fight engine is developed in this Super Six version of the game to a high enough standard, then I plan to port it over to a full Football Manager style game with an open ended date structure that allows you to play on indefinitely. The full version of the game will attempt to re-create the world of boxing, and not just based around a closed-structure single tournament. Like I say, I'm working on the closed-structure project first only because its easier to develop the fight engine like that. I'm 4 months into the Super Six Project, and I envisage it will be finished at some point in the next 3 months. When this is finished and the bugs have been ironed out of the fight engine, then I will get to work straight away on the full version of the game. I dont have an ETA on that. There will be some limitations in Super Six that wont be there in the full game. Such as, due to the structure of the SS tournament, there is very little scope for managers to make fights of their own, since the tournament organisers have already done that for you. Super Six will play a bit like a playable demo of the full game. Imagine a Football Manager game that runs for 2 seasons and then ends (the SS tournament ran over 2 years in real life and will do so in the game too). I say it will play like a demo, but thats because its less of a game, and more of a development tool for me to build the fight engine on. It's purpose will be to provide me with a pre-structured list of fights that can be passed through the fight engine. There will still be things for the manager to do, as I will be using Super Six to develop other functions for the full game as well as the fight engine. To put it short, what you're really waiting for is the full game, but when Super Six is finished, I will release it to the public anyway just so that you can have a taste of things to come. I will drop a post here once a month to keep you in the loop. Later on today I will pop back and throw up some screenies of some of the work I have done so far. Just to recap then, I'm 4 months into Super Six development and it feels like there's another 3 months to go. As soon as that is finished I will port the fight engine directly to a new project and that will form the basis for the full game. How long this will take to develop I dont have a clue, but seeing as though the most difficult part will already be developed (the fight engine) then the development of the full game should not be long at all, probably less than 6 months after Super Six is finished (but thats just a guess). Hope you all are well. Bear with me and I'll be back later with those screenshots of development so far. P.S @ ROB (Morris), if your're still knocking around, I'll mail you in the next couple of days. Would like you to do some testing at some point if your still up for it. Last edited by The_Cobra; 03-11-2013 at 10:03 AM.

03-12-2013, 03:49 AM	#2
The_Cobra Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Carlton, Nottingham - 5 mins down the road from Frochy! Posts: 28	Oops, meant to drop these in here yesterday but got caught up. I gets there in the end. Still looking threadbare and not much to look at but you can see that I'm not BS'ing you at least. Progress is coming along at a fair rate.....I'll leave it like this til next month because there wont be much else to say until I've made more progress. You are now up to speed with where I'm @. Salut. Take care.

03-12-2013, 03:58 AM	#3
Roco Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 22	Will this have every conceivable fighter in the database much like FM does with football players?

03-14-2013, 04:15 AM	#4
The_Cobra Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Carlton, Nottingham - 5 mins down the road from Frochy! Posts: 28	Hello mate, cheers for your interest. To answer the question, yes. But, if you remember your history, FM started out as a shadow of the game it is now, with a much smaller database. Their game and their database has vastly grown over the years, the point being it's taken time to get it like that. So what I'm saying is, thats what we're aiming for, but it wont happen overnight. The long term view is that the database will get so huge, it'll even incorporate club boxers, and youth talent (like Football Manager does youth teams and non league football), but its important to remember that when FM started out, they never had youth teams or non league. That came later when they had established a smaller database involving just the main leagues. So thats the lesson we need to learn (or I need to learn). To take things slowly and be patient and build the database up in layers over time. I certainly envisage that the first database we'll be working with will be large enough to get lost in, but not so huge that it will take me 5 years to build. Can you see where the balance is? When you're starting something from scratch like this, you have to make it big enough to hold people's attention, but not so big that your forever working on it and never get anything released. So I'm not trying to be over ambitious. We'll do this in steps and build it up over time, just like Football Manager did (I remember when it was Championship Manager in the 1990's, they did'nt even have foreign leagues back then! Just 4 divisions to choose from but even so, the game was very very enjoyable even with such a snaller database, so I'm not trying to rain on your hopes or anything like that). Sorry for waffling on, I realise a simple "yes" would have done but I'm trying to get across as much info as I can. Thanks for the question.

03-15-2013, 09:01 AM	#10
The_Cobra Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Carlton, Nottingham - 5 mins down the road from Frochy! Posts: 28	By the way, cap, I interpret this meeting more like this: (I'm on the left btw) ....but for sure, it's not going to come to this: ....because I have no intention of becoming this:

03-26-2013, 09:19 PM	#17
RingKings Bat Boy Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 1	this is mighty impressive!!