Teams with 0 penalties

[scuffleball]

Simmed five NHL seasons so far and been checking out a lot of the simmed game results. There are way too many teams not committing a single penalty in a game. I've also noticed that when this happens, the other team will commit 7-10 penalties. An example, Stanley Cup Finals, Game 1, SJ vs. PHI. SJ - 0 pen/0 minutes, PHI 8 pen/16 minutes. Now, it's not impossible, per say, but just this last playoff I simmed, it happened five times where one team had no penalties. I can think of one game in my now 25+ years of watching NHL hockey that a team didn't commit a single penalty.

Actually (and I'm assuming this is a WIP) the entire penalty system needs a lot of tweaking in terms of both variance and quantity. Majors and misconducts don't seem to be fully (or effectively) implemented yet. Overall, it appears that penalty minutes are too low in games. I have yet to see a game where a team has 30+ PIM in the game. Had a few in the 20-25 PM range, but nothing over 30 yet.

As stated, I know this is a WIP, but the zero penalties is happening far too frequently.

UPDATE
Also noticed this...
Game 2 of SCF (SJ/PHI). Each team had 13 PIM, yet each team shows 5 PP chances...that's not possible, given that each team would've had 8 PIM in minors for a maximum of 4 PP chances each (if there were no dual minors, which there weren't in this game according to the result report). Engine appears to be counting each penalty as a PP opportunity.

There also appears to be no logic in about fighting (not unexpected) but I see a lot of fights at the end of games, regardless of the situation, score, or whether its a regular season or playoff game (especially a Game 7).

UPDATE 2
Simmed two more SCF games and watched the penalties and reported PP chances. The engine does appear to be counting each penalty as a PP chance, regardless of what type of penalty it is or if it's a fighting major, etc.

[scuffleball]

Another issue with penalties (either displaying the time in the game report or actually calculating the time of the penalties). Also, notice that each team had 11 PIM in this game and the reported PP chances for each team was 4. The game has to be counting every penalty as a PP chance.

[pens66]

Originally Posted by scuffleball

Simmed five NHL seasons so far and been checking out a lot of the simmed game results. There are way too many teams not committing a single penalty in a game. I've also noticed that when this happens, the other team will commit 7-10 penalties. An example, Stanley Cup Finals, Game 1, SJ vs. PHI. SJ - 0 pen/0 minutes, PHI 8 pen/16 minutes. Now, it's not impossible, per say, but just this last playoff I simmed, it happened five times where one team had no penalties. I can think of one game in my now 25+ years of watching NHL hockey that a team didn't commit a single penalty.

Not to sound rude, but you should check your stats better:

This season alone three teams managed to not commit a single penalty in a game. Florida (3rd March vs. WPG) and Toronto and the NY Islanders (both on 28th February... yes, they played against each other).

In the 2011-12 season it happened 22 times.

[scuffleball]

Originally Posted by pens66

Not to sound rude, but you should check your stats better:

This season alone three teams managed to not commit a single penalty in a game. Florida (3rd March vs. WPG) and Toronto and the NY Islanders (both on 28th February... yes, they played against each other).

In the 2011-12 season it happened 22 times.

I meant my personal watching the games. Probably wasn't clear.

[OpusTheFowl]

Originally Posted by scuffleball

I meant my personal watching the games. Probably wasn't clear.

I've never seen a plane crash so does that mean it never happens?

Numbers...always a good thing to check...especially in a forums inhabited by baseball fans as they are nutty about numbers (as the game is so boring)(jj).

[scuffleball]

Originally Posted by OpusTheFowl

I've never seen a plane crash so does that mean it never happens?

Numbers...always a good thing to check...especially in a forums inhabited by baseball fans as they are nutty about numbers (as the game is so boring)(jj).

I've watched over a thousand games (at least) and it just struck me as odd, that's all.

However, my other point about the game counting all penalties as power play chances is legit.

[JeffR]

Originally Posted by scuffleball

Another issue with penalties (either displaying the time in the game report or actually calculating the time of the penalties). Also, notice that each team had 11 PIM in this game and the reported PP chances for each team was 4. The game has to be counting every penalty as a PP chance.

Yup, that one's definitely a bug, added it to the list.

[JeffR]

Originally Posted by scuffleball

Actually (and I'm assuming this is a WIP) the entire penalty system needs a lot of tweaking in terms of both variance and quantity. Majors and misconducts don't seem to be fully (or effectively) implemented yet. Overall, it appears that penalty minutes are too low in games. I have yet to see a game where a team has 30+ PIM in the game. Had a few in the 20-25 PM range, but nothing over 30 yet.

Majors look OK, but something seems to have happened to misconducts, they were at a reasonable level a few builds ago but now I'm looking at an NHL season 20+ games old and there hasn't been a single misconduct yet. Something's not right there.

It looks like, for the NHL at least, the number of minors is at about 75% of the level it should be at. That'll get a look, too.

We also need a more realistic refereeing system that keeps power play advantages relatively even most of the time, the 7-0, 7-1 advantages shouldn't be happening as much.

[Maplicito]

Originally Posted by pens66

Not to sound rude, but you should check your stats better:

This season alone three teams managed to not commit a single penalty in a game. Florida (3rd March vs. WPG) and Toronto and the NY Islanders (both on 28th February... yes, they played against each other).

In the 2011-12 season it happened 22 times.

Considering the 2011-12 season had 1230 games not including playoffs, seeing it happen 5 times in one playoff season is definitely unlikely. It's good to think about stats as well as checking them. Since the number of playoff games will vary each year, let's for argument sake say that each series averages 6 games - that would make for 90 playoff games. 5 games sans penalties would be 5.6 percent of the games. 22 games in a 1230 game season would be 1.8 percent of the games. Obviously, some things change statistically in the playoffs, but a three fold increase in penalty-less games seems unlikely.

[pens66]

Originally Posted by Maplicito

Considering the 2011-12 season had 1230 games not including playoffs, seeing it happen 5 times in one playoff season is definitely unlikely. It's good to think about stats as well as checking them. Since the number of playoff games will vary each year, let's for argument sake say that each series averages 6 games - that would make for 90 playoff games. 5 games sans penalties would be 5.6 percent of the games. 22 games in a 1230 game season would be 1.8 percent of the games. Obviously, some things change statistically in the playoffs, but a three fold increase in penalty-less games seems unlikely.

Correct. I just wanted to point out that if one person hasn't seen it in 25 years, doesn't mean that it doesn't happen at all.
It's a perception thing and, as I also pointed out in the injuries thread, people here should first check facts before reporting something in the game as completely false and ridiculous.

[scuffleball]

Originally Posted by pens66

Correct. I just wanted to point out that if one person hasn't seen it in 25 years, doesn't mean that it doesn't happen at all.
It's a perception thing and, as I also pointed out in the injuries thread, people here should first check facts before reporting something in the game as completely false and ridiculous.

Dude, since one judges the world by their own perception, I thought that five penalty free games in the playoffs was a bit high, especially given the fact that the other team in those games was committing 7-10 penalties. And I never said that it doesn't happen at all, just that it "seemed" a bit high. And it turns out I was right, not you. Terrible I know.

I know in your world you're right in most things (obviously), so all I've got left to say is check your know-it-all, "you should make sure you're right before posting" attitude at the door before posting to or at me again, ok? I don't appreciate it, your tone, or the way you approach this, whether you meant it or not.

I'll say no more about it.

[pens66]

I think I made my point clear enough.

Talking about tone: I'm not here to step on the toes of people I don't even know. I just want to help making the game as realistic as possible.