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Old 01-20-2013, 02:04 PM   #1
Déjà Bru
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I'm at war with WAR!
Will one of you statheads please explain how a pitcher who is leading the league in ERA, wins, shutouts (tied for first), hits per 9 IP, opponents AVG, and WHIP is not even in the top 8 (screen is cut off) for WAR? This is why I can never put too much stock and faith in such statistics as WAR that are not based on concrete data, relying on arcane formulas in the background. At least I used to see some correlation of VORP with other statistics, but I notice VORP has dropped off the leader boards in favor of WAR.
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Old 01-20-2013, 02:29 PM   #2
Cinnamon J. Scudworth
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Pitching WAR in OOTP is based around Fielding Independent Pitching (FIP). ERA, WHIP, H/9, and opponent's average won't correlate exactly because of BABIP and team defense. Wins and shutouts as stats themselves are meaningless in WAR calculations.
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Old 01-20-2013, 02:40 PM   #3
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Old 01-20-2013, 02:55 PM   #4
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WAR! What is it good for?......
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Old 01-20-2013, 03:23 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinnamon J. Scudworth View Post
Pitching WAR in OOTP is based around Fielding Independent Pitching (FIP). ERA, WHIP, H/9, and opponent's average won't correlate exactly because of BABIP and team defense. Wins and shutouts as stats themselves are meaningless in WAR calculations.
Yup.

They could use rWAR if you wanted instead, and just calculate yourself as well.

He would be near the top of that.
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Old 01-20-2013, 03:37 PM   #6
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This is why I can never put too much stock and faith in such statistics as WAR that are not based on concrete data, relying on arcane formulas in the background.

It isn't the statistics fault that you don't understand them.
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Old 01-20-2013, 04:07 PM   #7
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Deja, quit being such a dinosaur.

The best pitcher performance metric available in OOTP is FIP. Use it.
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Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

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Old 01-20-2013, 04:18 PM   #8
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Deja, quit being such a dinosaur.

The best pitcher performance metric available in OOTP is FIP. Use it.
Not.
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Old 01-20-2013, 04:27 PM   #9
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Not.
Wrong.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

Five thousand thanks for a non-modder? I never thought I'd see the day. Thank you for your support.
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Old 01-20-2013, 04:56 PM   #10
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Wrong.
Do pitchers that rank high in FIPS, but have bad years tend to have good years the next? It has not been my experience.....
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Old 01-20-2013, 06:53 PM   #11
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Do pitchers that rank high in FIPS, but have bad years tend to have good years the next? It has not been my experience.....
Small sample size. Read the literature.

Also, FIP is directly based on DIPS. As is, not coincidentally, the OOTP engine.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

Five thousand thanks for a non-modder? I never thought I'd see the day. Thank you for your support.
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Old 01-20-2013, 08:02 PM   #12
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A study on which pitching stat is the best predictive one:

The Chowder Pot: Stat Corner: Is FIP a Better ERA Predictor than SIERA?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

Five thousand thanks for a non-modder? I never thought I'd see the day. Thank you for your support.
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Old 01-20-2013, 08:03 PM   #13
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Deja, quit being such a dinosaur.
Perhaps you would like to see my new favorite T-shirt?
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Old 01-20-2013, 08:21 PM   #14
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Perhaps you would like to see my new favorite T-shirt?
It would be funny if it were not tragically true.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

Five thousand thanks for a non-modder? I never thought I'd see the day. Thank you for your support.
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Old 01-20-2013, 09:07 PM   #15
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WAR! What is it good for?......
Cheap oil. Cheap hydrocodone, cheap clothing, cheap furniture, cheap you name it. As long as we take advanatge of them to keep things cheap for us we are the good guys, right?





Just kidding...I know it's in the name of freedom and democracy. Ex-military here. Bomb away, brothers.
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Old 01-20-2013, 09:35 PM   #16
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Small sample size. Read the literature.

Also, FIP is directly based on DIPS. As is, not coincidentally, the OOTP engine.
I'm asking you to show me the small sample size of one.....

And we are not talking real life here, but OOTP. Show me some players (or at least one) who stunk it up, but ranked high in FIPS and didn't stink the next year, but pitched more like his FIPS suggested. If you can, then FIPS has merit to judge OOTP talent; if you can't then I'd suggest looking elsewhere for an indicator of talent......
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Old 01-20-2013, 09:46 PM   #17
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I'm asking you to show me the small sample size of one.....

And we are not talking real life here, but OOTP. Show me some players (or at least one) who stunk it up, but ranked high in FIPS and didn't stink the next year, but pitched more like his FIPS suggested. If you can, then FIPS has merit to judge OOTP talent; if you can't then I'd suggest looking elsewhere for an indicator of talent......
I see this routinely. If you don't, you're not looking.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

Five thousand thanks for a non-modder? I never thought I'd see the day. Thank you for your support.
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Old 01-20-2013, 11:07 PM   #18
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I see this routinely. If you don't, you're not looking.
If you see it, then you can show it.....
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Old 01-20-2013, 11:21 PM   #19
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YOU can see it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

Five thousand thanks for a non-modder? I never thought I'd see the day. Thank you for your support.
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Old 01-20-2013, 11:40 PM   #20
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Not if it ain't there.....
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