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11-10-2012, 06:04 PM
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#1 |
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Hall Of Famer
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The Excellence Project - Baseball's Greatest
 Over 30,000 viewed my last thread on the best baseball team and I was very happy to do it and complete it. Still as I went along and did it, I still had an itch that I wasn't doing it exactly the way I wanted to and spent a good amount of time detailing a way to do it better and more clear to the objective. Hopefully you haven't grown tired of searching the great teams of the past and you will find this newer version more well defined and polished to what I did before. My idea is not unique but I saw it on one of the threads in the forums by someone else. The list I am using for the best teams of all time is also his, although I have changed it a bit to include recent great teams. The idea revolves around a season to determine the best, not a playoff series. For the season and the rigors of the season make baseball the great game it is. This of course is a long project but the idea of it excites me to get started immediately. If you feel burned out from reading this type of thing or have grown tired of it I encourage you to take a break from my threads and come back when you have the itch again; I will still be here. As for the 1953 Yankees who just won the last competition, prepare to defend your title straight away and do it in the most challanging way. Besides all this, I had to start something new, who could ever accept another Yankee team winning it all? Introduction coming next where all will be explained, hope you enjoy following as much as I will enjoy playing out. |
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11-10-2012, 06:06 PM
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#2 |
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Hall Of Famer
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Introduction
We all have them, our favorites. Whether it is because we saw them in person as a child or because we heard of their legends from others, we all have the preconceived theory of who the greatest baseball team is of all time. In the only sport that spans the generations of your great grandfathers, the debate is deep rooted and comes from all corners of our nation. Passion of generations and their heroes are held more tightly then a sacred family recipe as their era, those they rooted for, are their own definition and identity of greatness. Somewhere or someday when we are all gone; when that meteor finally hits us and we are in our Einstein youth picking up sticks again, will there be peace. Maybe at that time in a place loosely called heaven, the greatest of this old game can assemble together again, and have it out for one last fight to really see who was the best. Whose legend was the most valid and real. It does little good to debate who the best player of all time was as it could never be fair or sensible to compare a pitcher to a right fielder, or a closer to a base stealer. The point to all of these greats and what they are made of comes down to wining, winning the greatest prize of them all which is that pennant and a chance at World Series glory. All great players had them, even Ernie Banks and Ryne Sandberg, that one team that may have not won it all, but is still considered legendary and good enough to be in consideration. It is all about team and not about records, stats, or comparisons. It is in the end about the win, about the winning side that for 150 or more games reached their goal. No one but no one can argue with a winner. So the winners need to take their place, need to play things out and prove their greatness against others like them, others just as keen and confident. A legend versus legends is the only way to solve this ultimate test. The quest is to prove to you and to myself that there is a measuring stick and there are moments that can be tested to see the definition of greatness. It can not be found in the stats or the theories, it can only be found on the field of play, with a wooden bat and a ball, the same rules that have been for 120 years, this is the only judge that everyone will accept, the only mechanism to determine our answers. For on the diamond there can be no debate, a winner wins but a legend keeps winning. This will be an analysis as well. This process is all too important to rush through or to get instant gratification from. It has to be enjoyed, like a fine wine or a long tale that can be unfolded in layers before the ultimate answer. All great things need to be worked at and this endeavor is definitely great and deserves all the focus we can give to it. |
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11-10-2012, 06:07 PM
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#3 |
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Hall Of Famer
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Format of Finding the Greatest
The initial thinking of all competitions is to create a tournament or playoff to determine the winners. It is faster and more clean and in many ways more dramatic for some; although I would tend to disagree. Still baseball is a different type of game; it is a game of longevity and patience. Baseball is a game of seasons that lead up to a moment rather then immediate matchups and results. A season is so important in an undertaking like this because it keeps things the way the participants know it and excel in, a pennant race. A pennant race for all of 162 games will determine the best team every time, there is no room for flukes or hot streaks, this is about the cream rising to the top, this is the way baseball has always been. The format for the season will also help provide a very intriguing side of things. We will be able to track and compare all the teams in a 162 game schedule and will be able to create our won leader boards and record book. The hallowed numbers of .400 or 56 straight games can be chased by the greatest. Batting titles will be played out and records in direct competition by the likes of Ty Cobb vs. Pete Rose and Barry Bonds vs. Babe Ruth will create themselves. So in an inadvertent way, we are able to measure individual greatness under a familiar measuring stick while keeping the overall focus on the ultimate finding of the greatest team. So each and every team will be inserted into a pennant race. The schedule for all will be 162 games and the participants in each group will be random but only after a seeding. With 480 teams there will be 60 seasons, each season consisting of 8 teams. The 480 teams will be will be separated into two groups of 240 teams. Each season will consist of four teams from the two groups of 240. In this manner a maximum of 4 “high” seeds can be in one group at one given season. The 60 seasons will be played out and the top four teams of each season will advance to the next round. So after the first 60 seasons there will be 240 teams left. The 240 teams will be seeded again to produce 30 seasons of 8 teams. Again the top four teams will advance leaving 120 teams. The 120 teams will then be placed into 15 seasons groups of eight. The top two teams of each group will advance to leave 30 teams. One final season will then be played to crown the all-time champion including a full playoff and wildcard. One issue that came forth was rather to use injuries of not. There are two sides to this debate; one is that injuries shouldn’t play a role in a perfect world where you are trying to find the best team based on skill and merit alone. I would argue however that we are not trying to find the best team on skill alone, but rather on everything else that incorporates a champion including endurance, stamina, and conditioning in a long season. So for this reason injuries will be included, I will however curtail them a bit in hopes that they won’t be too frequent. But make it known from now; at some point the engine will create an injury that greatly impacts a team and a season or pennant race. On a final note of course the process isn’t perfect, but I can not think of a better way then to play out seasons to determine greatness. Will luck have a part of things? Surely to some extent, but with the marathon of the process the hope is that the standard deviation for any outliners will be greatly reduced and we will have a conclusive champion of all time. For what would baseball be without a little intervention from the baseball Gods? |
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11-10-2012, 07:09 PM
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#5 |
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Hall Of Famer
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Season 1
1. 1905 New York Giants  Record: 105-48 Finish: World Series Champions Manager: John McGraw Ball Park: Polo Grounds Hall of Famers: (4) Roger Bresnahan, Chrsity Mathewson, Joe McGinnity, John McGraw 2. 1920 Chicago White Sox  Record: 96-58 Finish: 2nd in American League Manager: Kid Gleason Ball Park: Comiskey Park Hall of Famers: (3) Eddie Collins, Red Faber, Ray Schalk 3. 1989 San Francisco Giants  Record: 92-70 Finish: Won NL Pennant; Lost in World Series Manager: Roger Craig Ball Park: Candlestick Park Hall of Famers: (1) Rich Gossage 4. 1998 Texas Rangers  Record:88-74 Finish: Won AL West Manager: Johnny Oates Ball Park: The Ball Park at Arlington Hall of Famers: none 5. 2003 Seattle Mariners  Record: 93-69 Finish: 2nd in AL West Manager: Bob Melvin Ball Park: Safeco Field Hall of Famers: none 6. 1962 Los Angeles Dodgers  Record: 102-63 Finish: 2nd in NL Manager: Walter Alston Ball Park: Dodger Stadium Hall of Famers: (3) Don Drysdale, Sandy Koufax, Duke Snider 7. 1901 Chicago White Sox  Record: 83-53 Finish: Won AL Pennant Manager: Clark Griffith Ball Park: South Side Park Hall of Famers: (1) Clark Griffith 8. 1994 Montreal Expos  Record: 74-40 Finish: No postseason; first in NL East Manager: Felipe Alou Ball Park: Olympic Stadium Hall of Famers: None |
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11-11-2012, 12:01 AM
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#6 |
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Major Leagues
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 307
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For some reason I find it a bit disappointing that the team ranked #480 debuts in the first season.
It's also a bit saddening that there won't be a possibility for career records. Well, in every other respect, I love this idea--much improved from its predecessor. I will be following. |
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11-11-2012, 12:43 AM
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#7 | |
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Hall Of Famer
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Quote:
As for career records the only thing I will be tracking are season records. For example who hit the most home runs in a single season or the most wins? I will also be handing out MVP awards at the end of the year. This project is not about the best career, but the best team at the time they played. Thanks for the input. |
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11-12-2012, 10:40 AM
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#8 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Hall Of Famer
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Season #1
April STANDINGS
Team News 1905 Giants - John McGraw and the 1905 Giants set the early pace in season one as they finish the month strong behind five wins from their ace Christy Mathewson and another five from Red Ames . The Giants are leading the league in ERA but have little use for a bullpen; something that may hurt them later. 1994 Expos - A tough injury to Larry Walker but the Expos are showing how good they may be early. The team is first in most hitting catagories including one game this month where they put up 24 hits against the 89 Giants. 1962 Dodgers - The Dodgers have been just average to start although Ron Parranowski already has seven saves. Sandy Koufax leads the league in strikeouts but has already allowed 22 earned runs in seven starts. 1998 Rangers - The most home runs in the league thus far and the Rangers have surprised alot of folks with their 13-13 record. Juan Gonzalez is in fine form hitting .343 with 26 RBI for the month of April. 1901 White Sox - The Sox are first in steals and hit only five home runs in April. Still the team is in every game and leads the league in on base percentage (.363) Zaza Harvey is batting .340. 1989 Giants - Other then Will Clark (.367) the Giants are having issues with the bats, last in the league in most offensive catagories. The bullpen has been slow as well with Mike LaCoss sporting an ERA of 8.21 and three losses. 1920 White Sox - Shoeless Joe is batting .388 for the month but the Sox pitching is dead last in the league. Injuries havent helped as Swede Risberg and Happy Felsch have both missed significant time. 2003 Mariners - This team seems overmatched early and had a bad six game losing streak in the middle of the month. With only nine home runs for the month for a modern team, the pop is lacking. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Batter of the month: Felipe Alou - 94 Expos (.414, 3 HR, 19 RBI) Pitcher of the month: Christy Mathewson - 05 Giants (5-1, 2.48 ERA, 25 K) Major Injuries: Candy Maldonado - 89 Giants (Out for season) Sammy Strang - 05 Giants (Out for season) Larry Walker - 94 Expos (4-5 weeks) Acomplishments: Mike Cameron - 03 Mariners (CYCLE on 4/8 against 05 Giants) |
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11-12-2012, 08:47 PM
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#9 |
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Major Leagues
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 307
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Do you have something to prevent career-ending injuries?
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11-12-2012, 09:43 PM
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#10 |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,878
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Go Expos Go!
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11-12-2012, 10:08 PM
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#11 | |
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Hall Of Famer
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Quote:
As I mentioned earlier staying healthy is part of the success of a 162 game season. So injuries are on low and in the first month of play there were about 5 of them. |
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11-12-2012, 10:30 PM
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#12 |
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Major Leagues
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: In The Bleachers
Posts: 420
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Just curious as to what league strategies and league totals are you using? And will those settings be used for all seasons?
Interesting project, I'll be following along. |
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11-12-2012, 11:02 PM
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#13 | |
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Hall Of Famer
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Quote:
- Fictional league (delete all fictionals and then import specific historical teams) - 2012 season - All modifiers on default (1.0) - 4 man rotations - Injuries low - Nuetralized stats Any other specific questions please let me know. |
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11-12-2012, 11:36 PM
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#14 |
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Major Leagues
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 307
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What do you do with the players when a team's season is finished? Delete them? Retire them?
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11-12-2012, 11:46 PM
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#15 | |
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Hall Of Famer
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Quote:
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11-13-2012, 12:17 AM
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#16 |
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Major Leagues
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 307
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Oh, so you need to keep track of the records manually?
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11-13-2012, 02:08 PM
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#18 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Hall Of Famer
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SEASON #1
May STANDINGS
Batter of the month: Rusty Greer - 1998 Rangers (.393, 2 HR, 22 RBI) Pitcher of the month: Sandy Koufax - 62 Dodgers (6-0, 2.07 ERA, 58 K) Injuries: Zaza Harvey - 01 White Sox (6 weeks) Fred Hartman - 01 White Sox (Remainder of season) Eddie Collins - 20 White Sox (5 weeks) Kevin Mitchell - 89 Giants (2 weeks) ------------------------------------------------------------------ Team News 1905 New York Giants - Backup catcher Frank Bowerman will be used to pitch in emergencies as John McGraw tries to prepare for the long scheduel. The Giants had an average month but still remain in first. Mike Donlin is batting .352 for the season and the 84 stolen bases for the team in most in the league. 1962 LA Dodgers - A great month for the Dodgers as they won 14 of 16 at one point and finished May with 19 wins. Sandy Koufax was back to his dominant self winning all 6 of his starts with support from Don Drysdale and Johnny Podres who have 14 wins between them. Duke Snider is hitting .302 to lead the team. 1994 Montreal Expos - Expos pitching hasnt been all that great with the team ERA 5th and even Pedro with an ERA at 3.94. Still the Expos are first in the league in hitting with a .311 average and Moises Alou is flirting with .400 at .388. 2003 Seattle Mariners - Beak out the Mariners as they go 16-9 in May to secure the fourth spot. Brett Boone is hitting .364 to pace the offense while Jaimie Moyer has sven wins and an ERA under 3. Arthur Rhodes will miss some time with a hamstring that may hurt the bullpen. 1998 Texas Rangers - Johnny Oates and the Rangers love where they are after two months. The power in the lineup is still a factor with Juan Gonzalez and Ivan Rodriguez in the middle of the order. Will Clark is also batting .354 as the Rangers are outscoring almost everyone they play. Are they for real? 1989 San Francisoc Giants - After the loss of Candy Maldonado and Keven Mitchell to injury the Giants have had to reshuffle to keep pace. Will Clark is batting .350 but has little support. The rotation has been the real porblem for the Giants thus far with not starter having a winning record or an ERA under 3.50. 1901 Chicago White Sox - The loss of Fred Hartman will hurt this team in the long run as no team has been hit harder by injuries. The team is 11-17 on the road and may not like the dimensions of newer parks. A team ERA of 3.97 isnt helping either as the Sox may be over their head in this division. 1920 Chicago White Sox - Another team hit hard by injuries and the loss of Eddie Collins and his leadership for any period of time will hurt even more. The Sox cant gwet anyone out with Red Faber sporting an ERA of 7.57. The team can hit with Joe Jackson, Buck Weaver and Shano Collins all over .360, but without any pitching the Sox looked doomed. |
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11-13-2012, 02:57 PM
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#19 |
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Minors (Single A)
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Seattle
Posts: 61
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commissioner mode?
I have a procedural question.
You are just quick playing the entire month and then looking at the results. Right? You don't play with the lineups at all do you? |
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11-13-2012, 05:19 PM
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#20 | |
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Hall Of Famer
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Quote:
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