Knuckleballers

Lumber-n-Lightning · 09-05-2012, 06:13 AM

Just started a new fictional league and I got my first ever knucleballer, a lefty(!) at that.

His ratings, as far as they mean anything, look OK for a backend starter. His knuckler itself is rated 60-65 (20-80 scale). He's only got one other pitch, though, a decidedly mediocre (50-55) change-up.

Can a knuckleballer get by as a starter with only one other pitch?

Also, he's still young. If he does work out as a starter, will his arm need to be nursed as much early in his career if he's only throwing knuckleballs and change-ups?

OutS|der · 09-05-2012, 06:31 AM

Yes a Knuckleballer is able to get away with only 2 pitches.
As for nursing him i don't think you have to do that for any pitcher in the game, don't think the game goes into that much detail where if you overwork a young arm they blow out more.

Lumber-n-Lightning · 09-05-2012, 06:48 AM

OK, thanks for that.

One other question. Is there anything - beyond a high catcher ability - that can be done to minimize PB/WP when a knuckler is on the mound? I don't imagine the game gets into designated battery mates and the like.

Righty Groove · 09-05-2012, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lumber-n-Lightning

OK, thanks for that.

One other question. Is there anything - beyond a high catcher ability - that can be done to minimize PB/WP when a knuckler is on the mound? I don't imagine the game gets into designated battery mates and the like.

As said earlier, yes, knuckleballer can get away with a good/great knuckler and just one other pitch.

About that PB/WP question, I don't think so. It's basically catcher ability and his rating (experience) at the position.

About young pitchers and injuries.. To me, it's like a roll of dice everytime a guy takes the mound. So, I try to go with 6-man rotations in the minors, minimize the possibilities of injury, but let the guy get deep into games (if he has the stamina), so he can get a good amount of innings.

damientheomen3 · 09-05-2012, 02:14 PM

Usually I limit innings for my youngsters (really just for realism's sake, and that's only when I'm not playing what's become my main league where players are on the roster only from age 21 to 25), but knuckleballers in OOTP last longer in pitch counts and don't seem to get injured as much, so by all means, cut him loose.

byzeil · 09-05-2012, 03:12 PM

To the best of my knowledge, someone who knows for sure please correct me if I'm wrong, in OOTP the different types of pitches are cosmetic. All that really matters are the pitch ratings and whether a pitcher has more more or less than 3 pitches. I don't think the game models a knuckleball any differently than a curveball. Would be cool if it did but I don't think it does.

Cryomaniac · 09-05-2012, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by byzeil

To the best of my knowledge, someone who knows for sure please correct me if I'm wrong, in OOTP the different types of pitches are cosmetic. All that really matters are the pitch ratings and whether a pitcher has more more or less than 3 pitches. I don't think the game models a knuckleball any differently than a curveball. Would be cool if it did but I don't think it does.

Knuckleballers are treated differently to other types of pitchers IIRC.

byzeil · 09-05-2012, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

Knuckleballers are treated differently to other types of pitchers IIRC.

Yea I've been looking around in the forums. I did see a comment from Marcus that they were handled differently but that was way back in v6. I have seen a few vague references but so far nothing definitive besides the above referenced post.

Edit: I've seen comments that knuckler's only need 2 pitches to be a SP and they get a boost to stamina.

sc_superstar · 09-05-2012, 04:25 PM

All of the knuckleballers ive ever seen have been starters with 2 pitches, the AI only uses 2 pitch non-knuckleballers to start in emergencies.

damientheomen3 · 09-05-2012, 04:30 PM

Knuckleballers are treated very differently. They can start with just a good KB and another pitch, for one. But I'm damn sure given I've seen knucklers with pretty good stamina finish among the guys with extremely high stamina that knucklers can last longer into games.

byzeil · 09-05-2012, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sc_superstar

All of the knuckleballers ive ever seen have been starters with 2 pitches, the AI only uses 2 pitch non-knuckleballers to start in emergencies.

I have seen knuckleballers with more than 2 pitches. I have a 20yo in my minors with a good knuckleball and high stamina and 3 other pretty good pitches. In this one game there are 5 knucklers, all have a 5 stamina (scale 1-5). Funny thing is that one of them is a second baseman.

Big Six · 09-05-2012, 04:58 PM

I had a very successful knuckleballer in one of my leagues. His knuckler was outstanding (19/20), and his other pitch was a mediocre fastball. His stamina was very high, and he was always among the leaders in innings pitched. He struck out a lot of batters, and walked more than average, too. He also pitched effectively until he was 43.

All in all, I think OOTP modeled the knuckleballer very well, at least in that case.

Lumber-n-Lightning · 09-05-2012, 11:27 PM

Thanks for the input, all.

Looks like the 2-pitch knuckleballer can stay in the rotation for now. My scout ranks him as servicable, but OSA ranks him much better (Knuckleball 80; Change-up 65; Stuff 70), so I'm curious how he'll play out.

And how many lefty knucklers have there been? I know there have been a few, but all the big names were righties as far as I know.

The Wolf · 09-06-2012, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Six

I had a very successful knuckleballer in one of my leagues. His knuckler was outstanding (19/20), and his other pitch was a mediocre fastball. His stamina was very high, and he was always among the leaders in innings pitched. He struck out a lot of batters, and walked more than average, too. He also pitched effectively until he was 43.

All in all, I think OOTP modeled the knuckleballer very well, at least in that case.

I had one once who was very similar to that. He never led the league in anything but IP and always had average to poor FIP and WHIP.

The Wolf · 09-06-2012, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lumber-n-Lightning

Thanks for the input, all.

Looks like the 2-pitch knuckleballer can stay in the rotation for now. My scout ranks him as servicable, but OSA ranks him much better (Knuckleball 80; Change-up 65; Stuff 70), so I'm curious how he'll play out.

And how many lefty knucklers have there been? I know there have been a few, but all the big names were righties as far as I know.

Kirt Ojala, Rick Sauveur, Bobby Shantz, Nap Rucker and Wilbur Wood.

Wood might qualify as a "big name."

OutS|der · 09-06-2012, 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by byzeil

To the best of my knowledge, someone who knows for sure please correct me if I'm wrong, in OOTP the different types of pitches are cosmetic. All that really matters are the pitch ratings and whether a pitcher has more more or less than 3 pitches. I don't think the game models a knuckleball any differently than a curveball. Would be cool if it did but I don't think it does.

I've seen it quoted by Markus that different pitches make a difference.
The spitter, circle change, cutter have a higher strike out rate, others produce a higher GB rate. Not sure how much effect it has but have seen it stated that there is a difference between the pitches. So yes it will matter if your pitcher has all fastball type pitches or all breaking balls.

Cryomaniac · 09-06-2012, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OutS|der

I've seen it quoted by Markus that different pitches make a difference.
The spitter, circle change, cutter have a higher strike out rate, others produce a higher GB rate. Not sure how much effect it has but have seen it stated that there is a difference between the pitches. So yes it will matter if your pitcher has all fastball type pitches or all breaking balls.

IIRC all pitchers are created with at least one Fastball Type pitch or a knuckleball.

Righty Groove · 09-06-2012, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OutS|der

I've seen it quoted by Markus that different pitches make a difference.
The spitter, circle change, cutter have a higher strike out rate, others produce a higher GB rate. Not sure how much effect it has but have seen it stated that there is a difference between the pitches. So yes it will matter if your pitcher has all fastball type pitches or all breaking balls.

That is certainly true. If you notice on the editor, the kind of pitches the guy has and their quality automatically generates a ground-ball rate and also L/R splits.

For example, a FB/SL guy is much more prone to fly balls and heavy splits then a cutter/changeup pitcher, for example.

I have never seen an all-breaking balls pitcher, but I've had a pitcher with no fastaballs on any kind, no sinker, cutter, splitter, nothing. Just changeup/slider. Great reliever, though.

NateAndStuff · 09-06-2012, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

IIRC all pitchers are created with at least one Fastball Type pitch or a knuckleball.

I don't think that's true. I came to this thread because I recently drafted a knuckleballer and he throws the KB and a Knucklecurve which I thought was kind of weird. His first year of rookie ball, he had an 8ish ERA though...lol He's only 19 I think so still plenty of time I guess.

Doctor No · 09-06-2012, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NateAndStuff

I don't think that's true. I came to this thread because I recently drafted a knuckleballer and he throws the KB and a Knucklecurve which I thought was kind of weird. His first year of rookie ball, he had an 8ish ERA though...lol He's only 19 I think so still plenty of time I guess.

Maybe I'm missing something, but if he throws a knuckleball, then it fits into Cryomaniac's either/or claim.

09-05-2012, 06:13 AM	#1
Lumber-n-Lightning Bat Boy Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 16	Knuckleballers Just started a new fictional league and I got my first ever knucleballer, a lefty(!) at that. His ratings, as far as they mean anything, look OK for a backend starter. His knuckler itself is rated 60-65 (20-80 scale). He's only got one other pitch, though, a decidedly mediocre (50-55) change-up. Can a knuckleballer get by as a starter with only one other pitch? Also, he's still young. If he does work out as a starter, will his arm need to be nursed as much early in his career if he's only throwing knuckleballs and change-ups?

09-05-2012, 04:58 PM	#12
Big Six Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Virginia Posts: 3,145	I had a very successful knuckleballer in one of my leagues. His knuckler was outstanding (19/20), and his other pitch was a mediocre fastball. His stamina was very high, and he was always among the leaders in innings pitched. He struck out a lot of batters, and walked more than average, too. He also pitched effectively until he was 43. All in all, I think OOTP modeled the knuckleballer very well, at least in that case. __________________ My dynasties: The Base Ball Life of Patrick O'Farrell: 2014 inductee, OOTP Dynasty Hall of Fame Kenilworth: A Town and its Team: fun with a fictional league

09-05-2012, 06:31 AM	#2
OutS\|der Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: In A Van Down By The River Posts: 2,670 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Yes a Knuckleballer is able to get away with only 2 pitches. As for nursing him i don't think you have to do that for any pitcher in the game, don't think the game goes into that much detail where if you overwork a young arm they blow out more.

09-05-2012, 06:48 AM	#3
Lumber-n-Lightning Bat Boy Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 16	OK, thanks for that. One other question. Is there anything - beyond a high catcher ability - that can be done to minimize PB/WP when a knuckler is on the mound? I don't imagine the game gets into designated battery mates and the like.

09-05-2012, 03:12 PM	#6
byzeil Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: NJ, US Posts: 2,006	To the best of my knowledge, someone who knows for sure please correct me if I'm wrong, in OOTP the different types of pitches are cosmetic. All that really matters are the pitch ratings and whether a pitcher has more more or less than 3 pitches. I don't think the game models a knuckleball any differently than a curveball. Would be cool if it did but I don't think it does.

09-05-2012, 04:25 PM	#9
sc_superstar Major Leagues Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 407	All of the knuckleballers ive ever seen have been starters with 2 pitches, the AI only uses 2 pitch non-knuckleballers to start in emergencies.

09-05-2012, 11:27 PM	#13
Lumber-n-Lightning Bat Boy Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 16	Thanks for the input, all. Looks like the 2-pitch knuckleballer can stay in the rotation for now. My scout ranks him as servicable, but OSA ranks him much better (Knuckleball 80; Change-up 65; Stuff 70), so I'm curious how he'll play out. And how many lefty knucklers have there been? I know there have been a few, but all the big names were righties as far as I know.