Is Jaime Moyer a HOFer?

[spleen1015]

This came up as a topic of discussion on MLB radio on XM this morning and I am interesting in what you guys think.

Is Jaime Moyer a HOFer?

Jamie Moyer Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

[Jamee999]

Jaime Moyer is Jamie Moyer's Mexican cousin, right?

[ezpkns34]

The only person who should vote yes is Julio Franco

[mirrf]

He's pretty gosh darn good for someone who's been released 3 times in his career. I wouldn't call him a HOFer unless he pitches a few more years of 'very goodness'. Does he actually need 300 wins? Probably.

Here's a hypothetical, he goes 10W - 15L with a 4 ERA for the next two years. Then he wins 15 games with under 4 ERA when he's over 50. That's a little under 300 wins, but I think he still gets in.

Yea, that's a HOF just because he lasted for so long and not because he was dominant. -But it is (and would be) a tremendous feat to play good baseball in his 50s.

[reo]

Originally Posted by Jamee999

Jaime Moyer is Jamie Moyer's Mexican cousin, right?

[SandMan]

I voted no but now that I think about it I would change that to be yes if he were to get to 300 wins. It will take 3 years to get there and I am not sure he has three years left in his arm. He would have to pitch until he was 51 to get to 300 wins.

He is an interesting pitcher to say the least. He did not start winning double-digits until he was 33 years old and his best seasons were at age 38 and 40. Up to age 30 he was only 34-54. That would make him 234-152 after age 30 and 104-81 after age 40. Not many pitchers get 200 wins after age 30, fewer get 100 wins in their 40's.

If he holds on and gets 300 he should go in. I think the only reason he is pitching now is because he was not used that much when he was young. I believe a pitcher has only so many innings in his arm and Moyer just has not hit his limit yet. I am pulling for the guy to get 300 wins, and pitching past his 50th birthday. If he only were not injured and missed the last season he would be some where near 280 wins and then we would be talking about him getting his 300 wins in two years instead of the talk of him pitching for 3 more years to get a shot at 300. One thing is for certain. There has never been such a mediocre pitcher to last as long as Moyer. The more I look at his stats the more I feel that he could make the Hall.

[1998 Yankees]

Well, one thing is for sure which is why, paradoxically, I voted "Maybe" above:

Jamie Moyer, 49, became the oldest pitcher to win a major league game Tuesday. He gave up six hits and two unearned runs in seven innings to earn his 268th win as the Colorado Rockies beat the San Diego Padres 5-3. Six of the Padres weren’t born when he made his debut in 1986.

[RchW]

I think he belongs in the hall of the "very good and played a long time". To me his playing on actually hurts his chances, especially summertime in Denver.

I shouldn't question his motivation but something tells me this is not just about the love of the game. What do Rockies fans think? My first question would be, "is Jamie Moyer really the 5th best starting pitcher in the entire organization"? Either response would only raise more questions.

[CD1083]

If playing at the Major League level into one's 50's was easy...why don't more players do it?

If he's out there throwing meat and teams keep him in for the PR, I'd agree that he should be left out. As long as he's contributing though, his contributions to the game should be acknowledged.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by The Chase Davis

If playing at the Major League level into one's 50's was easy...why don't more players do it?

If he's out there throwing meat and teams keep him in for the PR, I'd agree that he should be left out. As long as he's contributing though, his contributions to the game should be acknowledged.

These things take a life of their own. Gordie Howe played hockey into his 50's but at the end it was a joke. Players have been quoted as saying they were warned not to run at him as no one wanted him to be killed etc.

In Moyers case if he is successful you will see a media blitz occur which will serve to set up the HoF for his election.

The worst possible reason IMO to elect him to the HoF is for reaching 300 wins. It would establish definitively that 300 wins is not the accomplishment but hanging around (effectively) for long enough is the route.

I must have taken my cynic pills today.

[MorseMoose]

Jamie Moyer didn’t crack 80 miles per hour with any of his pitches last night | HardballTalk

Yes. He is a Hall of Famer.

[Orcin]

1. Appeared in the top 10 for Cy Young three times, never higher than fourth. So was never considered the best player in his league at his position.
2. Never led the league in any significant pitching statistic.
3. ERA was barely over league average for his career.

No way.

[Linenoise]

Originally Posted by SandMan

I voted no but now that I think about it I would change that to be yes if he were to get to 300 wins. It will take 3 years to get there and I am not sure he has three years left in his arm. He would have to pitch until he was 51 to get to 300 wins.

He is an interesting pitcher to say the least. He did not start winning double-digits until he was 33 years old and his best seasons were at age 38 and 40. Up to age 30 he was only 34-54. That would make him 234-152 after age 30 and 104-81 after age 40. Not many pitchers get 200 wins after age 30, fewer get 100 wins in their 40's.

If he holds on and gets 300 he should go in. I think the only reason he is pitching now is because he was not used that much when he was young. I believe a pitcher has only so many innings in his arm and Moyer just has not hit his limit yet. I am pulling for the guy to get 300 wins, and pitching past his 50th birthday. If he only were not injured and missed the last season he would be some where near 280 wins and then we would be talking about him getting his 300 wins in two years instead of the talk of him pitching for 3 more years to get a shot at 300. One thing is for certain. There has never been such a mediocre pitcher to last as long as Moyer. The more I look at his stats the more I feel that he could make the Hall.

You convinced me. I voted no, but now I agree that if he can last long enough to get 300 wins he deserves it.

[CD1083]

Originally Posted by Orcin

1. Appeared in the top 10 for Cy Young three times, never higher than fourth. So was never considered the best player in his league at his position.
2. Never led the league in any significant pitching statistic.
3. ERA was barely over league average for his career.

No way.

You must think Barry Zito deserves to be in the Hall of Fame then.

[MorseMoose]

The Hall of Fame's motto is:

"Preserving History, Honoring Excellence, Connecting Generations."

Moyer has done both one and three, extensively.

The definition of fame is:

The condition of being known or talked about by many people, esp. on account of notable achievements.

I've never seen the Hall of Fame as being the place for the "best", but for those that deserve to represent baseball at its highest honor. Jamie Moyer has done just that.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by The Chase Davis

You must think Barry Zito deserves to be in the Hall of Fame then.

No, but I would vote for Barry Zito before Jamie Moyer.

[Carlton]

Can I start quoting Major League III now?

"They time his fastball with an hourglass"

Liston:Tell him to throw me a fastball
Baker: That WAS his fastball

[Carlton]

Originally Posted by MorseMoose

I've never seen the Hall of Fame as being the place for the "best", but for those that deserve to represent baseball at its highest honor. Jamie Moyer has done just that.

Exactly, there are a plethora of reasons a player may be enshrined

I laugh at (as in their face) with people who argue vehemently that certain stats such as WAR,iso,Fip should be sole consideration and try to state certain old time ballplayers do not belong and Bert Byleven is one of the best pitchers ever....ok

Moyer has been in baseball for many decades, if he reaches 300 wins that is something that will happen in this era very rarely...why is he not a HOFer?

It has FAME in its name not statistical excellence

so he is def. a maybe

[RchW]

Originally Posted by MorseMoose

The Hall of Fame's motto is:



Moyer has done both one and three, extensively.

The definition of fame is:


I've never seen the Hall of Fame as being the place for the "best", but for those that deserve to represent baseball at its highest honor. Jamie Moyer has done just that.

But neither of these is in the criteria for election.

4. Method of Election:

A. BBWAA Screening Committee — A Screening Committee consisting of baseball writers will be appointed by the BBWAA. This Screening Committee shall consist of six members, with two members to be elected at each Annual Meeting for a three-year term. The duty of the Screening Committee shall be to prepare a ballot listing in alphabetical order eligible candidates who (1) received a vote on a minimum of five percent (5%) of the ballots cast in the preceding election or (2) are eligible for the first time and are nominated by any two of the six members of the BBWAA Screening Committee.

B. Electors may vote for as few as zero (0) and as many as ten (10) eligible candidates deemed worthy of election. Write-in votes are not permitted.

C. Any candidate receiving votes on seventy-five percent (75%) of the ballots cast shall be elected to membership in the National Baseball Hall of Fame.

5. Voting: Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.

6. Automatic Elections: No automatic elections based on performances such as a batting average of .400 or more for one (1) year, pitching a perfect game or similar outstanding achievement shall be permitted.

7. Time of Election: The duly authorized representatives of the BBWAA shall prepare, date and mail ballots to each elector no later than the 15th day of January in each year in which an election is held. The elector shall sign and return the completed ballot within twenty (20) days. The vote shall then be tabulated by the duly authorized representatives of the BBWAA.

IMO Moyer's playing record (especially if he gets 300 wins) and ability is insufficient. Some will argue that others with inferior records are in. Understood, but it doesn't mean that bad choices should be repeated.

[MorseMoose]

Originally Posted by RchW

But neither of these is in the criteria for election.




IMO Moyer's playing record (especially if he gets 300 wins) and ability is insufficient. Some will argue that others with inferior records are in. Understood, but it doesn't mean that bad choices should be repeated.

5. Voting: Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.

Integrity, character, contributions, even playing ability (ability to play until he's 50)

Nowhere does it say that he has to be the best or get to 300 wins.