Obp < Avg?

VT Os fan · 01-22-2003, 12:16 PM

I didn't think it was possible mathematically, but I've got a player on the Cubs team I started managing who has an OBP that is lower than his batthing average. I'm racking my brain to come up with a scenario where a player gets on base fewer times than he has hits. Any takers?

GForce22 · 01-22-2003, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by VT Os fan
I didn't think it was possible mathematically, but I've got a player on the Cubs team I started managing who has an OBP that is lower than his batthing average.

Must not be a popular teammate

GH

obaslg · 01-22-2003, 12:37 PM

There's a glitch in the stats I've noticed before - HBP isn't counted in the R/L splits. Maybe you're encountering something similar. It's pretty easy to calculate OBP yourself to check the software. It is impossible to have a OBP or SLG lower than BA, so it's a software glitch one way or another.

sixto · 01-22-2003, 12:40 PM

Actually it's a statistical reality. SH and SF don't count against BA, but they do count against OBP.

Players whose SF+SH > BB+HBP will have a lower OBP than batting average.

If you look around on Baseball-Reference for a free-swinging player who batted only around 20-50 times, you'll probably find an example.

sixto · 01-22-2003, 12:43 PM

http://www.baseball-reference.com/h/hamiljo02.shtml

Cato · 01-22-2003, 04:38 PM

Actually, it's only SF. OBP = (H+BB+HBP)/(AB+BB+HBP+SF)

This is especially evident early in the season in the RISP stats, since a larger percentage of sac flies occur in this situation.

Sabathia · 01-22-2003, 07:35 PM

Hehe, only Joey Hamilton would have a higher OBP than AVG. But here's a thought. If you hit into a fielder's choice, shouldn't that raise your OBP since you're getting on base?

rockze25 · 01-22-2003, 08:01 PM

No, fielder's choices count against you as an "ofer" (0 for 1). Otherwise you would have another stat called fielder's choice % or something and thats pretty dumb.

sixto · 01-22-2003, 08:39 PM

Thanks for fixing my mistake Cato.

That reminds me of freshman year of high school, when I was doing the team stats and calculating OBP including E and FC as times on base. I didn't care about OBP back then so thinking I had a .500+ OBP didn't really impress me. Didn't like walking either, although I did fairly often. All I cared about was BA + RBI and not striking out. If only I'd been reading Bill James back then...I coulda been somebody.

y2kornhusker · 01-22-2003, 10:28 PM

batthing average

Good one g, too bad everyone missed it.

01-22-2003, 12:16 PM	#1
VT Os fan Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Virginia Tech (Blacksburg, Virginia) Posts: 226	Obp < Avg? I didn't think it was possible mathematically, but I've got a player on the Cubs team I started managing who has an OBP that is lower than his batthing average. I'm racking my brain to come up with a scenario where a player gets on base fewer times than he has hits. Any takers? __________________ "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." -- Ayn Rand

01-22-2003, 12:37 PM	#3
obaslg All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 887	There's a glitch in the stats I've noticed before - HBP isn't counted in the R/L splits. Maybe you're encountering something similar. It's pretty easy to calculate OBP yourself to check the software. It is impossible to have a OBP or SLG lower than BA, so it's a software glitch one way or another. __________________ Realy good musition of many insterments, including the hyperbolic vitriol.

01-22-2003, 04:38 PM	#6
Cato Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 328	Actually, it's only SF. OBP = (H+BB+HBP)/(AB+BB+HBP+SF) This is especially evident early in the season in the RISP stats, since a larger percentage of sac flies occur in this situation. __________________ OOTP Utilities Download Page - Home of OOTP History & OOTP Gazette GMC League History JOBL League History

01-22-2003, 07:35 PM	#7
Sabathia Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2002 Location: Chapel Hill, NC Posts: 60	Hehe, only Joey Hamilton would have a higher OBP than AVG. But here's a thought. If you hit into a fielder's choice, shouldn't that raise your OBP since you're getting on base? __________________ Contract the Yankees! Leagues Cleveland Indians in the HBL Cincinnati Reds in the DBLC Seattle Mariners in the TLB FOB2: Coming Soon! Major League Boneheads: C Mark Szymanski

01-22-2003, 10:28 PM	#10
y2kornhusker Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 135	batthing average Good one g, too bad everyone missed it. __________________ Omaha Commanders - BBSC Classic Draft League Seattle Mariners - BBSC Current Draft League Philadelphia A's - BBSC Historical Replay League

01-22-2003, 12:40 PM	#4
sixto Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,275	Actually it's a statistical reality. SH and SF don't count against BA, but they do count against OBP. Players whose SF+SH > BB+HBP will have a lower OBP than batting average. If you look around on Baseball-Reference for a free-swinging player who batted only around 20-50 times, you'll probably find an example.

01-22-2003, 12:43 PM	#5
sixto Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,275	http://www.baseball-reference.com/h/hamiljo02.shtml

01-22-2003, 08:01 PM	#8
rockze25 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 243	No, fielder's choices count against you as an "ofer" (0 for 1). Otherwise you would have another stat called fielder's choice % or something and thats pretty dumb.

01-22-2003, 08:39 PM	#9
sixto Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,275	Thanks for fixing my mistake Cato. That reminds me of freshman year of high school, when I was doing the team stats and calculating OBP including E and FC as times on base. I didn't care about OBP back then so thinking I had a .500+ OBP didn't really impress me. Didn't like walking either, although I did fairly often. All I cared about was BA + RBI and not striking out. If only I'd been reading Bill James back then...I coulda been somebody.