What NHL Team will move to Portland?

Total Nirvana · 01-07-2003, 05:13 AM

As it seems like the Ottawa Senators and the Buffalo Sabres are in a financial push, it seems like one of the two will move to a new location, or possible fold. I think Ottawa will end up staying put, while Buffalo folds it's team...

Matt Davis · 01-07-2003, 05:20 AM

I gotta say Ottawa will fold after hearing about them not even paying their players, I would be going to the management and demanding that they give me my hard earned money.

fantom1979 · 01-07-2003, 05:22 AM

I wouldnt be surprised if a few Canadian teams move to the US. It is difficult for any Canadian team to stack up against an US team money wise right now.

Matt Davis · 01-07-2003, 05:25 AM

Aren't canadians obsessed with hockey though, those teams surely would have enough of a fan base to bring in money in such a hockey obsessed country.

Total Nirvana · 01-07-2003, 05:28 AM

Well thats what i'm thinking. I always thought hockey more as a Canadian sport then an American sport... It would hurt the NHL if it moved the Senators, or fold the team. It also includes the Sabres, since they are close to the Canadian boader, and they havent been paying their bills for the arena, and at times, not paying their players and staff

chrisj · 01-07-2003, 06:52 AM

The fans have no problem supporting the team. They have decent attendance, usually. The problems come from the fact that with the economy down, private box sales and corporate sponsorship are also down. This is what is really hurting Ottawa right now given that companies such as Nortel, etc used to buy tickets/boxes like crazy. Needless to say, Nortel doesn't have that kind of money anymore.

Ottawa won't move as the Ottawa owner owns both the arena and the team. Surely someone wouldn't buy them, move the team and just let the arena sit empty.

Maybe the Sabres will move. We'll see.

Another possibility of a team that could move is Calgary, although I think they will remain in the city in the end.

jjmac69 · 01-07-2003, 09:35 AM

The Sabres have not missed payroll (yet) I do not think they will move. The new owner (Hamister) is a very well known Buffalo Businessman who made his money in WNY. Betman has said the team needs to stay and told the guy in Portland (name?) to back off. Last week the team had a meeting with the local and state government. They did NOT ask for money. They did ask for tax breaks (which they are entitled to because the arena is in a Empire zone) and other Guarantees to make the arena more profitable. I doubt the team will leave because

1. The state is going to back the plan (it would kill the governor and other reps in this area if they leave). Pataki is not stupid enough not to back the team.

2. The state backed the Bills when it looked like they would leave, AND they have backed teams in the city. People in the CNY and WNY would be very PO'd if they didn't do the same.

3. Hamister is committed to keep the team here and he also owns the Arena team and has strong personal and business ties to the area.

4. The fans will come to games. One of the reasons attendance is down is the ownership is so up in the air. If Hamister gets full ownership people will have more faith in the team. People are still PO d with Regis (sp?) and what he did to damn near bankrupt the team.

Statsman1 · 01-07-2003, 11:14 AM

Well, I am a Canadian, and a Leaf fan at that...

I will say this...

It would not be the end of the world to see Ottawa leave town...but Bryden is an idiot, anyway. He's tried to hold the team hostage before, threating to leave if he didn't get tax breaks, gov't subsidies, etc. He didn't get them, so now he and his buddies, using the Sens as a tax shelter, got burnt, and there's no more money.

The Ottawa situation is a joke anyway. The arena is 40min out of town, and there's only ONE ROAD to and from it. Poor planning there. Maybe there was supposed to be a 'metro' there, but I never heard of plans for one.

I'm a hockey fan. I don't care if there is only one team in Canada (Toronto, obviously, isn't going anywhere), I'd only like to see a solid league. Isn't that more important?

As long as Canadians continue to beat the US in Olympic hockey (and junior hockey..dratted Russians!!), a Canadian's overall hockey pride will not diminish.

Personally, I believe that 30 teams is too many. I also believe that there needs to be a salary cap in place, to protect owners like Bryden from, well, himself. There are teams all over North America losing money, those are the teams that need to be watched, and if necessary, eliminated.

Greed, boys. It's going to kill the league one of these days.

Best,

Statsman1

Draft Dodger · 01-07-2003, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by smerfmatt
Aren't canadians obsessed with hockey though, those teams surely would have enough of a fan base to bring in money in such a hockey obsessed country.

from what I saw on HNIC Saturday, the Sens would be making money, except they are so far in the debt hole from borrowing everything to start up the franchise that they can't get out of it.

Joe Canadian · 01-07-2003, 11:45 AM

The are a number of reasons why it is so hard for Canadian teams to stay in Canada. The most obvious is the dollar. But the other and easiest to fix is the taxing the different levels of government due to these teams.

I'm not sure of the figures, I've forgotten them, but the amount of money that Canadian teams pay vs. what American teams pay is ridiculus. I belive it is around 2-4 times in some cases. The governments are relying so much on this "huge" amount they are going to have a rude awakening when these teams move.

I know its seen by the "uneducated" public, that giving money to millionaires is foolish. But when you sit down and look at the facts, these "buisnesses" are being taxed into the ground. The government gives money, in the form of tax breaks, to many buisnesses on countless occasions. So why not in this case!!!!!

Anyway... enough with that rant....

I think the NHL has finally realized the importance of having teams in Canada. So I think they'll do whatever they can to keep Ottawa where it is.

While I think Buffalo whould stay put, teams like Anheim should be moved... but not to Portland... how about Winnipeg or Quebec City???

***Interesting Fact***
Ottawa is undefeated since they stopped paying their players. Also last night they faced the NHL's richest team, the Rangers. While Ottawa tops the NHL standings... NY is close to last.

Long_Long_Name · 01-07-2003, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by smerfmatt
I gotta say Ottawa will fold after hearing about them not even paying their players, I would be going to the management and demanding that they give me my hard earned money.

I don't know, I didn't find that was a very intelligent statement.

If you go to the management and ask for money, you won't get more, if they had any they would pay you , so it seems kinda stupid to go ask for it if you know they don't have any for you.
Hard-earned money? Granted, we're talking about the Sens here, I think they do earn their money. Don't go say that about some other NHL underachieving teams. However, this kind of situation happens everyday in multiple businesses where the average salary is 20k, not 1.8mil.
Some people who barely bring in enough money to live a decent life confronted to this situation probably work as had as the hockey player for 1% (literally) of his salary. I think he needs his money more than the guy making millions every year.

Draft Dodger · 01-07-2003, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Long_Long_Name
I don't know, I didn't find that was a very intelligent statement.

....

lol - you just responded to 1 not-very-intelligent statement with 3 of your own...

SoxWin · 01-07-2003, 02:34 PM

The Sens got the shaft from the NHL and the Canadian Government when they entered the league.

- They borrowed the ENTIRE $50 mil franchise fee as they couldn't get any cash together to pay it.

- They financed the Corel Centre themselves, no such thing as tax breaks in Canada for athletes (despite the fact teams each pay approx $30mil in payroll taxes to the govn annually)

- They asked the Federal Government to build them an off ramp from the freeway to the Corel Centre. The response, sure, just give us $22mil and we'll build it for you right away.

- Due to the fact they'd put up $20mil for the road access the assessed property value went up. Good for the Sens right? Wrong, the property taxes were upped from $1.5 mil to $7 mil due to the fact the team had spent their own cash???

It's a sad day when one of the best run organizations in hockey (despite the fact they drafted a dead guy in the expansion draft) can't meet a $30 mil payroll. We're not talking about the Stars, Rangers, Av's, Red Wings or some other team with a bloated payroll.

The Senators management have done just about everything right from a hockey perspective and have been absolutely handcuffed by the fiscal greed of the other league owners and governments at both the provincial and federal levels.

Rich

Long_Long_Name · 01-07-2003, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SoxWin
The Senators management have done just about everything right from a hockey perspective

one name: Alexandre Daigle

SoxWin · 01-07-2003, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Long_Long_Name
one name: Alexandre Daigle

One word:

First place overall.

Admittedly the huge contract was a big mistake but give me a break. Do you really believe he wasn't going 1st overall no matter who had the pick?

If Daigle could get interested in hockey he's still got the skill set to be a top 10 scorer in the NHL.

Million dollar talent, 1 cent head.

Rich

Long_Long_Name · 01-07-2003, 03:21 PM

I think you're right SoxWin, but it eneded up being a bad decision nevertheless.

Other players that were selected in that 1993 entry draft:
Chris Pronger
Jason Allison
Paul Kariya
Todd Betuzzi
Saku Koivu
Kenny Jonsson
Éric Dazé
Miroslav Satan
Tommy Salo
Darcy Tucker
Patrick Lalime
Pavol Demitra

Statsman1 · 01-07-2003, 03:28 PM

...of all high draft picks that flamed out, and it'd be a long list...

The problem was the WAY Daigle flamed out. He was given tons of dough, and didn't care about the game. People resent that. It's not like he tried, but didn't have the skills that he showed in the Q, or he got hurt. He just didn't want to play.

Ottawa can't be doing THAT much wrong from a player standpoint, since they've been doing well during the regular season. During the playoffs...wellllll....

Go Leafs Go!!

Statsman1

SoxWin · 01-07-2003, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Long_Long_Name
I think you're right SoxWin, but it eneded up being a bad decision nevertheless.

Agreed, but hindsight is 20/20. If they did it all again tomorrow with the knowledge they had then, Daigle would still be #1.

Rich

Long_Long_Name · 01-07-2003, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SoxWin
Agreed, but hindsight is 20/20. If they did it all again tomorrow with the knowledge they had then, Daigle would still be #1.

Rich

The Whalers didn't know how lucky they were not to get the #1 pick

Joe Canadian · 01-07-2003, 04:08 PM

The Canadian\Ontario\Ottawa\Kanata goverments are going to get a rude awakening if Ottawa leaves and takes its millions that they pay in taxes with them.

The public wouldn't care if the government gave a tax break to a historical society, etc. But they won't give anything to the industry Canada is most well known for!

ITS COMPLETE BULL****!!!!!!

And Daigle would of went #1 overall no matter who had the pick. The kid was seen as the next superstar. Although I'm not sure exactly how the Sens handled his devlopment, I don't think he was interested in making hockey a career. He wanted to be Tom Cruise not Wayne Gretzky, LOL.

View Poll Results: What team will move it's location to Portland, Oregon?
Buffalo Sabres	4	18.18%
Ottawa Senators	14	63.64%
Other (please specify)	4	18.18%
Voters: 22. You may not vote on this poll

01-07-2003, 05:20 AM	#2
Matt Davis Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Tavares, Florida Posts: 148	I gotta say Ottawa will fold after hearing about them not even paying their players, I would be going to the management and demanding that they give me my hard earned money. __________________ Matt Davis (Smerfmatt) Total Pro Basketball Assistant Community Manager .400 Software Studios Need Webhosting for anything or for a simleague. Check http://simleagues.com/ Remember to say smerfmatt sent you so you can get a discount.

01-07-2003, 05:22 AM	#3
fantom1979 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Detroit, MI Posts: 3,498	I wouldnt be surprised if a few Canadian teams move to the US. It is difficult for any Canadian team to stack up against an US team money wise right now. __________________

01-07-2003, 05:25 AM	#4
Matt Davis Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Tavares, Florida Posts: 148	Aren't canadians obsessed with hockey though, those teams surely would have enough of a fan base to bring in money in such a hockey obsessed country. __________________ Matt Davis (Smerfmatt) Total Pro Basketball Assistant Community Manager .400 Software Studios Need Webhosting for anything or for a simleague. Check http://simleagues.com/ Remember to say smerfmatt sent you so you can get a discount.

01-07-2003, 05:28 AM	#5
Total Nirvana All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Diego, California Posts: 750	Well thats what i'm thinking. I always thought hockey more as a Canadian sport then an American sport... It would hurt the NHL if it moved the Senators, or fold the team. It also includes the Sabres, since they are close to the Canadian boader, and they havent been paying their bills for the arena, and at times, not paying their players and staff __________________ Total Hockey Commissioner Your Off-Topic Nightmare. Free Agent OT Player - Plays 1B/3B/OF, hits for power on all fields, great fielder, can hit .330 a season!

01-07-2003, 05:13 AM	#1
Total Nirvana All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Diego, California Posts: 750	What NHL Team will move to Portland? As it seems like the Ottawa Senators and the Buffalo Sabres are in a financial push, it seems like one of the two will move to a new location, or possible fold. I think Ottawa will end up staying put, while Buffalo folds it's team... __________________ Total Hockey Commissioner Your Off-Topic Nightmare. Free Agent OT Player - Plays 1B/3B/OF, hits for power on all fields, great fielder, can hit .330 a season!

01-07-2003, 06:52 AM	#6
chrisj All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Edmonton, Alberta (but still wishing I was in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada) Posts: 834	The fans have no problem supporting the team. They have decent attendance, usually. The problems come from the fact that with the economy down, private box sales and corporate sponsorship are also down. This is what is really hurting Ottawa right now given that companies such as Nortel, etc used to buy tickets/boxes like crazy. Needless to say, Nortel doesn't have that kind of money anymore. Ottawa won't move as the Ottawa owner owns both the arena and the team. Surely someone wouldn't buy them, move the team and just let the arena sit empty. Maybe the Sabres will move. We'll see. Another possibility of a team that could move is Calgary, although I think they will remain in the city in the end. __________________ Canadian Baseball League -- Commissioner -- Calgary GM

01-07-2003, 09:35 AM	#7
jjmac69 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 150	The Sabres have not missed payroll (yet) I do not think they will move. The new owner (Hamister) is a very well known Buffalo Businessman who made his money in WNY. Betman has said the team needs to stay and told the guy in Portland (name?) to back off. Last week the team had a meeting with the local and state government. They did NOT ask for money. They did ask for tax breaks (which they are entitled to because the arena is in a Empire zone) and other Guarantees to make the arena more profitable. I doubt the team will leave because 1. The state is going to back the plan (it would kill the governor and other reps in this area if they leave). Pataki is not stupid enough not to back the team. 2. The state backed the Bills when it looked like they would leave, AND they have backed teams in the city. People in the CNY and WNY would be very PO'd if they didn't do the same. 3. Hamister is committed to keep the team here and he also owns the Arena team and has strong personal and business ties to the area. 4. The fans will come to games. One of the reasons attendance is down is the ownership is so up in the air. If Hamister gets full ownership people will have more faith in the team. People are still PO d with Regis (sp?) and what he did to damn near bankrupt the team. __________________ <a href="/http%7C//www.sportplanet.com/sbb/iba/">CDIL</a>

01-07-2003, 11:14 AM	#8
Statsman1 Major Leagues Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Marmora, Ontario, Canada Posts: 340	Canadians, and hockey in general... Well, I am a Canadian, and a Leaf fan at that... I will say this... It would not be the end of the world to see Ottawa leave town...but Bryden is an idiot, anyway. He's tried to hold the team hostage before, threating to leave if he didn't get tax breaks, gov't subsidies, etc. He didn't get them, so now he and his buddies, using the Sens as a tax shelter, got burnt, and there's no more money. The Ottawa situation is a joke anyway. The arena is 40min out of town, and there's only ONE ROAD to and from it. Poor planning there. Maybe there was supposed to be a 'metro' there, but I never heard of plans for one. I'm a hockey fan. I don't care if there is only one team in Canada (Toronto, obviously, isn't going anywhere), I'd only like to see a solid league. Isn't that more important? As long as Canadians continue to beat the US in Olympic hockey (and junior hockey..dratted Russians!!), a Canadian's overall hockey pride will not diminish. Personally, I believe that 30 teams is too many. I also believe that there needs to be a salary cap in place, to protect owners like Bryden from, well, himself. There are teams all over North America losing money, those are the teams that need to be watched, and if necessary, eliminated. Greed, boys. It's going to kill the league one of these days. Best, Statsman1 __________________ Statsman1

01-07-2003, 11:45 AM	#10
Joe Canadian All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 1,296	The are a number of reasons why it is so hard for Canadian teams to stay in Canada. The most obvious is the dollar. But the other and easiest to fix is the taxing the different levels of government due to these teams. I'm not sure of the figures, I've forgotten them, but the amount of money that Canadian teams pay vs. what American teams pay is ridiculus. I belive it is around 2-4 times in some cases. The governments are relying so much on this "huge" amount they are going to have a rude awakening when these teams move. I know its seen by the "uneducated" public, that giving money to millionaires is foolish. But when you sit down and look at the facts, these "buisnesses" are being taxed into the ground. The government gives money, in the form of tax breaks, to many buisnesses on countless occasions. So why not in this case!!!!! Anyway... enough with that rant.... I think the NHL has finally realized the importance of having teams in Canada. So I think they'll do whatever they can to keep Ottawa where it is. While I think Buffalo whould stay put, teams like Anheim should be moved... but not to Portland... how about Winnipeg or Quebec City??? *Interesting Fact* Ottawa is undefeated since they stopped paying their players. Also last night they faced the NHL's richest team, the Rangers. While Ottawa tops the NHL standings... NY is close to last. __________________ My Twitter \| My Blog \| My Music Fan of the Blue Jays, Maple Leafs, IceCaps, Lakers, and Broncos.

01-07-2003, 02:34 PM	#13
SoxWin Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Blissful ignorance Posts: 3,315	The Sens got the shaft from the NHL and the Canadian Government when they entered the league. - They borrowed the ENTIRE $50 mil franchise fee as they couldn't get any cash together to pay it. - They financed the Corel Centre themselves, no such thing as tax breaks in Canada for athletes (despite the fact teams each pay approx $30mil in payroll taxes to the govn annually) - They asked the Federal Government to build them an off ramp from the freeway to the Corel Centre. The response, sure, just give us $22mil and we'll build it for you right away. - Due to the fact they'd put up $20mil for the road access the assessed property value went up. Good for the Sens right? Wrong, the property taxes were upped from $1.5 mil to $7 mil due to the fact the team had spent their own cash??? It's a sad day when one of the best run organizations in hockey (despite the fact they drafted a dead guy in the expansion draft) can't meet a $30 mil payroll. We're not talking about the Stars, Rangers, Av's, Red Wings or some other team with a bloated payroll. The Senators management have done just about everything right from a hockey perspective and have been absolutely handcuffed by the fiscal greed of the other league owners and governments at both the provincial and federal levels. Rich __________________ It's called partying. When you do a lot of it, you're bound to be places where the police show up. I smoke a lot of pot and drink a lot of beer. I also graduated Suma Cum Laude. ****ing sue me. - Luis Rivera

01-07-2003, 03:21 PM	#16
Long_Long_Name Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Montréal Posts: 7,065	I think you're right SoxWin, but it eneded up being a bad decision nevertheless. Other players that were selected in that 1993 entry draft: Chris Pronger Jason Allison Paul Kariya Todd Betuzzi Saku Koivu Kenny Jonsson Éric Dazé Miroslav Satan Tommy Salo Darcy Tucker Patrick Lalime Pavol Demitra __________________ Beta Baseball. Join it!

01-07-2003, 03:28 PM	#17
Statsman1 Major Leagues Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Marmora, Ontario, Canada Posts: 340	You could make a list... ...of all high draft picks that flamed out, and it'd be a long list... The problem was the WAY Daigle flamed out. He was given tons of dough, and didn't care about the game. People resent that. It's not like he tried, but didn't have the skills that he showed in the Q, or he got hurt. He just didn't want to play. Ottawa can't be doing THAT much wrong from a player standpoint, since they've been doing well during the regular season. During the playoffs...wellllll.... Go Leafs Go!! Statsman1 __________________ Statsman1

01-07-2003, 04:08 PM	#20
Joe Canadian All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 1,296	The Canadian\Ontario\Ottawa\Kanata goverments are going to get a rude awakening if Ottawa leaves and takes its millions that they pay in taxes with them. The public wouldn't care if the government gave a tax break to a historical society, etc. But they won't give anything to the industry Canada is most well known for! ITS COMPLETE BULL***!!!!!! And Daigle would of went #1 overall no matter who had the pick. The kid was seen as the next superstar. Although I'm not sure exactly how the Sens handled his devlopment, I don't think he was interested in making hockey a career. He wanted to be Tom Cruise not Wayne Gretzky, LOL. __________________ My Twitter \| My Blog \| My Music Fan of the Blue Jays, Maple Leafs, IceCaps, Lakers, and Broncos. Last edited by Joe Canadian; 01-07-2003 at 04:10 PM.*