Need some advice

Markus Heinsohn · 01-05-2003, 05:37 PM

I am just about to start coding the full minor league system. While on vacation I have done a lot of "brain-work" on it, and I am wondering a little if this feature would really enhance the game, or if it would blow it up to a degree where it is too much micromanagement concerning minors. Here are the Pros and Cons:

Pro:
- Gives you more info for researching your prospects (box scores, game logs)
- Makes the game more realistic in regards to minor league structure
- Provides an overall look at each organizations' talent level (minors standings)

Cons:
- Makes the game run slower
- Causes 4 times the amount of space used by boxscores and game logs
- Would add a lot of micromanagement since you would have to make sure that you have 4 full rosters instead of one. The current system with the incomplete minor league rosters could not be an option.

Now, the question is if I should really implement it (eating up development time), or if I should 'just' enhance the way the minor league stats (and prospects) are presented in the game. Also, an optional mode for complete minor league rosters being necessary (including the AI for it) is part of OOTP 5 anyway. Remember, you already have quite a lot of control over your minor league teams with the lineups/pitching staff...

How many of you would really spend time on checking minor league box scores and standings?

Thoughts?

ms2002 · 01-05-2003, 05:47 PM

Personally, I say just enhance the current system. I don't think it'd be worth the slowdown and the extra space. I don't know if my comp could handle it or the space required. I say instead of box scores, standings and all that - you could somehow should a ranking of the minor league talents in hitting, fielding, and pitching (maybe rank minor league team totals the same way you'll rank major league team totals). So, I vote to enhance but not to add standings and everything. The majors are what matters anyway.

fasteddie_21 · 01-05-2003, 05:48 PM

I'd say that it'd be time better spent elsewhere. It seems to me, IMO, that it'd be a little overkill. If you have already planned on enhancing it to some degree, that should be enough. Thanks for allowing us the input, Markus! Will you be accepting preorders for the CD version?

fasteddie_21 · 01-05-2003, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ms2002
I say instead of box scores, standings and all that - you could somehow should a ranking of the minor league talents in hitting, fielding, and pitching (maybe rank minor league team totals the same way you'll rank major league team totals).

A very fine idea, actually. I like that a lot!

Killebrew · 01-05-2003, 05:56 PM

IMO box scores and logs for the minors would be overkill. Having them enabled would mean backups would take 3 times longer to create and about that same amount of extra time to restore an archived league, never mind the extra support required due to hard drive space or minimum system resources

. Standings and/or minor league system rankings would be great though.

ms2002 · 01-05-2003, 05:59 PM

i can't believe how great the support is for this game! this game kicks.

Scott Vibert · 01-05-2003, 06:01 PM

I agree.... personally I can't imagine myself looking at the minor league box scores all that often.

I might look at standings from time to time to see where my team stood when compared to the other minor league systems. If that could be added without the extra processing and file storage needs of the full minor leagues with simmed box scores, etc., that would be a good compromise IMO.

Treches · 01-05-2003, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Killebrew
IMO box scores and logs for the minors would be overkill. Having them enabled would mean backups would take 3 times longer to create and about that same amount of extra time to restore an archived league, never mind the extra support required due to hard drive space or minimum system resources. Standings and/or minor league system rankings would be great though.

Agree. And let me add that there's plenty that could be done regarding the big leagues (a friendlier offseason, for crying out loud, the chance to run the draft and edit the draftees if needed while the free agency takes place, just to name one) before even thinking about minor league's standings. But, hey, the more the options...

LivnLegend · 01-05-2003, 06:38 PM

So far, unanimous!

BaseballMan · 01-05-2003, 06:49 PM

I go with improve current system.

Sweed · 01-05-2003, 06:59 PM

I vote to only improve the minors. I think the time can be better spent concentrating on the majors.

Sim Rat · 01-05-2003, 06:59 PM

Markus, could you do both and make the full-blown minors optional? Personally, I think it might be fun to have the game allow you to manage in the minors and work your way up to the major leagues, but that's not relevant at the moment. But I think it would be good if you could offer both options in OOTP5.

Henry · 01-05-2003, 07:06 PM

I'm definately on the "improve current system" side. If you recode the minors - in effect we're running 4 complete leagues instead of one. All I (personally) really want is the feeling that the minors are playing every day... maybe above and beyond your current enhancements, a newsletter or email with more information coming from the lower leagues. We can pour over that info

I might as well take this opportunity (LOL - like the way I'm doing this?) to plug another wish... Cato's Gazette is a wonderful addition - but it shows up the fact there aren't enough stories. I don't know what criteria is used to kick off a storyline, but if you could loosen it up a bit

Henry

crackpott · 01-05-2003, 07:16 PM

I'm gonna have to be on the other side of all of this. Go boxscores! Of course I'm getting a new computer soon. 2.4 GHz seems like overkill for simply playing OOTP, so it has to go SOMEWHERE.

Red Blow · 01-05-2003, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sim Rat
Markus, could you do both and make the full-blown minors optional? Personally, I think it might be fun to have the game allow you to manage in the minors and work your way up to the major leagues, but that's not relevant at the moment. But I think it would be good if you could offer both options in OOTP5.

Along these lines, will it ever be possible (aside from 3rd party utilities) to import teams into leagues from other leagues? Or even transfer players from one league to another.

This might allow leagues to hold customized Spring Training Schedules, Rookie Leagues, Winter Leagues, even full Minor League simming.

Either way, I'd rather see time and energy going to other parts of the game instead of minor league boxscores.

BillyBuck · 01-05-2003, 07:27 PM

I can see where this would/has quickly become "overkill". I will admit that when I first got this game, a friend and I had an idea of us both running a team together - he would run the majors and I would run the minors. Back then, though (OOTP3), it wasn't really a plausible option for playing. With this full blown option, it would be NEAT to do.

On the other hand....if you're trying to run 2 or 3 or 4 teams (in different leagues) at the same time by yourself (as a lot of us are), I can't see anyone spending much more time with their minor leagues than we already do. Standings would be great, at the very least...or some kind of overall ranking for each minor league level. It would be cool if there could be a toggle on/off for a Full Blown Minor League option, but maybe that won't be possible?

Anyway, I voted against the full blown thing, even though I think it would be cool. I am a simple, sensible man.

Rangersfan · 01-05-2003, 07:30 PM

I may be in the minority but minor league boxscores along with ml standings was one of the new features I was looking forward to most. I have been wanting this feature in a baseball game for the longest time.

I would love to be able to check the boxscores to see how my #1 ammy draft pick was doing in Single A and how my minor league teams is doing in the standings. Also I plan to start a online league complete with all three leavels of minors and have people manage the minor leagues as well as the majors.

So Please leave this in, or if you want too make it optional, but do not leave this out.

Thanks

-Jon

TotalEnd98 · 01-05-2003, 08:45 PM

How about a compromise of sorts? Put in a toggle switch, with choices of "Improvement of current system" and "Full minor leagues." For cases of the latter, set the minors schedule option so that one can either set a definite number of games played, or a ratio of major games to minor games.

For example, if I run a 162-game schedule in my league, I can set the minors to a 60-game season, a 2:1 ratio for 81 games, a 3:1 ratio for 54 games... you get the picture.

That way, the people with insane systems can run their full minors, and those with more modest (read: reasonable) computers can have a reduced version of the new system or an enhanced version of the old.

Not sure at all how plausible this is, but I just thought I'd throw the idea out there. Personally, I'd be happy with an improvement of the current system.

biggjoe87 · 01-05-2003, 09:12 PM

I know this is slightly different than what is being discussed in this thread, but it does apply to the minor league structrue of OOTP. I have a couple of ideas for features that I hope are added into OOTP5 to add to the realism of the minor league system.

1. An addition of a Rookie level or low A team that would allow owners to view the performance of their draft picks against those of other teams in the league. A rookie level team would also not force players to cut some of their promising prospects in the A, AA, and AAA levels that they may actually want to keep. This feature would be further enhanced by placing the amateur draft in the middle of the season to correspond with the major leagues.

2. Allowing veterans in the minor leagues to have an impact on the younger players. I can't tell if this is already in the game, but this would raise the value of players who are probably past their prime and whose skills have eroded but still haven't retired. Those veterans who have a positive clubhouse influence would be valuable in double or triple A to mentor younger players.

These are the only two that are pressing in my mind right now. Hopefully Steve, Markus or anyone involved in the game's production can comment on these ideas.

blmeanie · 01-05-2003, 10:18 PM

enhance it only. Way overkill. If you made it possible for importing of players and teams from other leagues, that would be a terrific work around for those looking for realistic minors...entire leagues could be minors if ratings etc. were adjusted.

Overkill if you include it.

View Poll Results: How should the minor league system be in OOTP 5?
Full system, with standings/box scores and all micromanagement involved (blows game up and makes it slower)	13	11.71%
Improve the current system with better representation of the minors and an option for complete minor league rosters	98	88.29%
Voters: 111. You may not vote on this poll

01-05-2003, 05:48 PM	#3
fasteddie_21 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: May 2002 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 220	I'd say that it'd be time better spent elsewhere. It seems to me, IMO, that it'd be a little overkill. If you have already planned on enhancing it to some degree, that should be enough. Thanks for allowing us the input, Markus! Will you be accepting preorders for the CD version? __________________ "That wasn't crying, Felix. That was a warning!"

01-05-2003, 06:38 PM	#9
LivnLegend Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: 100% pure adrenaline! Posts: 5,624	So far, unanimous! __________________ Excess ain't rebellion. You're drinking what they're selling.

01-05-2003, 07:16 PM	#14
crackpott Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Toronto Posts: 2,961	I'm gonna have to be on the other side of all of this. Go boxscores! Of course I'm getting a new computer soon. 2.4 GHz seems like overkill for simply playing OOTP, so it has to go SOMEWHERE. __________________ Abandoned Planet - Check it out. The photos don't suck anymore.

01-05-2003, 07:27 PM	#16
BillyBuck Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: KC, MO Posts: 436	Hmm I can see where this would/has quickly become "overkill". I will admit that when I first got this game, a friend and I had an idea of us both running a team together - he would run the majors and I would run the minors. Back then, though (OOTP3), it wasn't really a plausible option for playing. With this full blown option, it would be NEAT to do. On the other hand....if you're trying to run 2 or 3 or 4 teams (in different leagues) at the same time by yourself (as a lot of us are), I can't see anyone spending much more time with their minor leagues than we already do. Standings would be great, at the very least...or some kind of overall ranking for each minor league level. It would be cool if there could be a toggle on/off for a Full Blown Minor League option, but maybe that won't be possible? Anyway, I voted against the full blown thing, even though I think it would be cool. I am a simple, sensible man. __________________ Kansas City Crows - FEBL Champions 2006 and 2007 Oslo Mountain Dawgs - WBL Champions 2004 and 2005

01-05-2003, 05:37 PM	#1
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,803	Need some advice I am just about to start coding the full minor league system. While on vacation I have done a lot of "brain-work" on it, and I am wondering a little if this feature would really enhance the game, or if it would blow it up to a degree where it is too much micromanagement concerning minors. Here are the Pros and Cons: Pro: - Gives you more info for researching your prospects (box scores, game logs) - Makes the game more realistic in regards to minor league structure - Provides an overall look at each organizations' talent level (minors standings) Cons: - Makes the game run slower - Causes 4 times the amount of space used by boxscores and game logs - Would add a lot of micromanagement since you would have to make sure that you have 4 full rosters instead of one. The current system with the incomplete minor league rosters could not be an option. Now, the question is if I should really implement it (eating up development time), or if I should 'just' enhance the way the minor league stats (and prospects) are presented in the game. Also, an optional mode for complete minor league rosters being necessary (including the AI for it) is part of OOTP 5 anyway. Remember, you already have quite a lot of control over your minor league teams with the lineups/pitching staff... How many of you would really spend time on checking minor league box scores and standings? Thoughts?

01-05-2003, 05:47 PM	#2
ms2002 All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,493	Personally, I say just enhance the current system. I don't think it'd be worth the slowdown and the extra space. I don't know if my comp could handle it or the space required. I say instead of box scores, standings and all that - you could somehow should a ranking of the minor league talents in hitting, fielding, and pitching (maybe rank minor league team totals the same way you'll rank major league team totals). So, I vote to enhance but not to add standings and everything. The majors are what matters anyway.

01-05-2003, 05:56 PM	#5
Killebrew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 3,326	IMO box scores and logs for the minors would be overkill. Having them enabled would mean backups would take 3 times longer to create and about that same amount of extra time to restore an archived league, never mind the extra support required due to hard drive space or minimum system resources. Standings and/or minor league system rankings would be great though.

01-05-2003, 05:59 PM	#6
ms2002 All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,493	i can't believe how great the support is for this game! this game kicks.

01-05-2003, 06:01 PM	#7
Scott Vibert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: My Computer Posts: 8,267	I agree.... personally I can't imagine myself looking at the minor league box scores all that often. I might look at standings from time to time to see where my team stood when compared to the other minor league systems. If that could be added without the extra processing and file storage needs of the full minor leagues with simmed box scores, etc., that would be a good compromise IMO.

01-05-2003, 06:49 PM	#10
BaseballMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 6,661	I go with improve current system.

01-05-2003, 06:59 PM	#12
Sim Rat Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 73	Markus, could you do both and make the full-blown minors optional? Personally, I think it might be fun to have the game allow you to manage in the minors and work your way up to the major leagues, but that's not relevant at the moment. But I think it would be good if you could offer both options in OOTP5.

01-05-2003, 07:06 PM	#13
Henry Hall of Fame Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 6,498	I'm definately on the "improve current system" side. If you recode the minors - in effect we're running 4 complete leagues instead of one. All I (personally) really want is the feeling that the minors are playing every day... maybe above and beyond your current enhancements, a newsletter or email with more information coming from the lower leagues. We can pour over that info I might as well take this opportunity (LOL - like the way I'm doing this?) to plug another wish... Cato's Gazette is a wonderful addition - but it shows up the fact there aren't enough stories. I don't know what criteria is used to kick off a storyline, but if you could loosen it up a bit Henry

01-05-2003, 07:30 PM	#17
Rangersfan Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Winston-Salem, NC Posts: 296	I may be in the minority but minor league boxscores along with ml standings was one of the new features I was looking forward to most. I have been wanting this feature in a baseball game for the longest time. I would love to be able to check the boxscores to see how my #1 ammy draft pick was doing in Single A and how my minor league teams is doing in the standings. Also I plan to start a online league complete with all three leavels of minors and have people manage the minor leagues as well as the majors. So Please leave this in, or if you want too make it optional, but do not leave this out. Thanks -Jon Last edited by Rangersfan; 01-05-2003 at 07:34 PM.

01-05-2003, 08:45 PM	#18
TotalEnd98 All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: New York Posts: 1,687	How about a compromise of sorts? Put in a toggle switch, with choices of "Improvement of current system" and "Full minor leagues." For cases of the latter, set the minors schedule option so that one can either set a definite number of games played, or a ratio of major games to minor games. For example, if I run a 162-game schedule in my league, I can set the minors to a 60-game season, a 2:1 ratio for 81 games, a 3:1 ratio for 54 games... you get the picture. That way, the people with insane systems can run their full minors, and those with more modest (read: reasonable) computers can have a reduced version of the new system or an enhanced version of the old. Not sure at all how plausible this is, but I just thought I'd throw the idea out there. Personally, I'd be happy with an improvement of the current system.

01-05-2003, 09:12 PM	#19
biggjoe87 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 30	I know this is slightly different than what is being discussed in this thread, but it does apply to the minor league structrue of OOTP. I have a couple of ideas for features that I hope are added into OOTP5 to add to the realism of the minor league system. 1. An addition of a Rookie level or low A team that would allow owners to view the performance of their draft picks against those of other teams in the league. A rookie level team would also not force players to cut some of their promising prospects in the A, AA, and AAA levels that they may actually want to keep. This feature would be further enhanced by placing the amateur draft in the middle of the season to correspond with the major leagues. 2. Allowing veterans in the minor leagues to have an impact on the younger players. I can't tell if this is already in the game, but this would raise the value of players who are probably past their prime and whose skills have eroded but still haven't retired. Those veterans who have a positive clubhouse influence would be valuable in double or triple A to mentor younger players. These are the only two that are pressing in my mind right now. Hopefully Steve, Markus or anyone involved in the game's production can comment on these ideas.

01-05-2003, 10:18 PM	#20
blmeanie All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Atlanta Posts: 1,044	enhance it only. Way overkill. If you made it possible for importing of players and teams from other leagues, that would be a terrific work around for those looking for realistic minors...entire leagues could be minors if ratings etc. were adjusted. Overkill if you include it. __________________ blmeanie email me at blmeanie Above link works for some email client programs but not all, email me at blmeanie33@earthlink.net