The OOTP E-Mail Survey: An On-line Subscription Service?

[thbroman]

Hey, Steve --

I just filled out the survey, and wanted some clarification about what you meant by asking in the last question whether we would be willing to join an on-line subscription version of OOTP. I answered "maybe," in part because I wasn't quite sure what was being proposed. Were you alluding to something similar to what SI does with Football Manager, where you can play in some gigantic world-wide soccer federation on-line? Actually, I don't know exactly how SI's version of this works, because I have never done it, although I was tempted for a time, until I realized that my lack of detailed knowledge of soccer tactics would have made me a complete patsy for more skillful nmanagers.

So -- what did you have in mind there?

[Killing Time]

You got an email? I didn't get an email. I feel left out.

[Stu]

Yeah I answered "No" to that question but I guess it really depends on how it was implemented. If it was a huge online world where you play against other random people, I definitely would not be interested.

However, if you could essentially reproduce your existing online leagues and retain control over membership, custom rules, etc I would be interested.

[kcroyalgm]

Any on-line subscription service has absolutely no interest to me.
I also got the survey.
Probably sent randomly to part of the customer base.

[ry1220]

An online subscription service would be more like what SI does with Football Manager Live, and would be the completion of the rumoured "OOTP Online" that's been thrown around on these forums.

My best guess (and some hopes) as to what exactly it entails is somewhat like what the OP said. It's a giant worldwide "federation", an expansion of online leagues to include head to head games over a OOTP server. However, to be completely honest, I don't know how big this leagues can get.... I'm pretty sure no one wants to be a AA manager, and baseball isn't like soccer in that it's limited in the number of leagues there are.

[Malleus Dei]

I vote no in a big way to online OOTP.

[ShaneCarson]

Oh how I wanted to say yes to three of those new feature requests!

Revamped and Extended Financial System

League Associations and Custom Tournaments

More "Role-Play" Style Immersion and Interaction (i.e. Interactive Storylines, Media Interaction, etc.)

All three of those would be fantastic. Unfortunately they only wanted me to choose two.

[shawa666]

Financial system and League Associatopns and custom tournaments are the most important to me. Role play can wait.

[Thundercrack]

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

I vote no in a big way to online OOTP.

If I could have voted no twice to this, I would have.

[Aytumious]

Originally Posted by ShaneCarson

Oh how I wanted to say yes to three of those new feature requests!

Revamped and Extended Financial System

League Associations and Custom Tournaments

More "Role-Play" Style Immersion and Interaction (i.e. Interactive Storylines, Media Interaction, etc.)

All three of those would be fantastic. Unfortunately they only wanted me to choose two.

I selected a better 2d/3d representation and more role playing. I play out every inning of every game, so a 2d or 3d system similar to Football Manager would really add to the immersion. Even if the players were only "dots" a la the 2D system of FM, I'd be very happy with that. It is just more fun when you see the dots moving around the park, IMO. Even though FM2010 has 3d, I still play with dots.

As for the online questions, I think it might be a good business decision to try to set up something similar to FM Live with OOTP. They could still release the normal product and provide the ability to have private leagues online, while they could also provide a more worldwide network for people to join to play in an online league. I think that could be a huge market for them, so I'm all for it, even though I generally only play solo fictional leagues and have only once taken part in an historical league online with other users.

I'm also very much for a revamped play by play style interactive game, whether it is in 3D or 2D. Even if it is only 2D to start, it would be very fun I think to watch the games play out with fielders moving around and the ball being tossed around since I play out every inning of every game. The immersion factor is so much more apparent when the players come to life, even if as only numbered dots on a fairly unsophisticated field. I'd love to read the description of a fantastic play (like a CF flying into the gap, a 3B charging a chopper, a SS flying into the hole to snag what should have been a single, etc.) and see it played out with my 2D dots with only numbers designating who they are. I don't think 3D is necessary unless it isn't that much of a difference, in terms of work and implementation, between 2D and 3D. I honestly have several fist pumping moments for the 2D version of FM, as pathetic as that may sound. It is so much more rewarding to see the dot actually make the play than it is to read the commentary about what happened. Offensively, I think it would be very rewarding to see how the defensive dots play against a certain struck ball, especially when you are talking about gappers, short homers, or line drives or sharp grounders into the hole. It would so much more fun to watch, even in a very basic 2D environment I think, compared to the static 2D version we have now.

The two things I'd like to see improved by a very large amount are the immersion factor in terms of role playing within the game and the immersion factor involved with seeing the game play out on the field in 2d or 3d. It is so much cooler to see a great sliding catch, for instance, if you actually see your dot flying forward to make the catch. It's just easier to picture in your mind any play, routine or not, if there is both text and the 2d representation on the field. If the play plays out as a liner to RF that a 2B has a chance at, it is so much cooler to see the 2B dot try to go for the ball and perhaps even make a diving motion (whatever that may be in 2D) than it is to just see the ball hit into a RF with no movement from any fielder. The same is true of any inflield play that might be close or any outfield play that might be close in terms of holding a double to a single or a perhaps a triple to a double. Seeing a 2D dot charge in from 3B or 1B or perhaps even SS or 2B would be so much cooler to see actually happen in front of you in 2d than it would otherwise. Even a play that is a chopper between SS and 3B that goes to LF with the LF trying to throw out a guy trying to score from 2B would be so much more intense to actually see it play out on the field. All of these plays are very basic baseball plays.

This is all coming from a person that plays a lot of FM (over 200 hours on FM2010 and 300 hours on FM2009) playing out every game in 2D) despite 3d being available.


In short, I am very much for the idea of an OOTP Online game where you could have thousands of users interacting within the same game world, while still offering the option for smaller private leagues to form as they do now. Still, in terms of business, I think you may want to first introduce a 2D or 3D representation of live games out of pure marketing sense. The game would be much more marketable to a mass audience, if the 2D or 3D game-world would come to life and play out each play. If you could do both within the same game cycle I think that would be perfect, but I'm not sure releasing an "OOTP Live" version of the game without an immersible, playable world on the field would be a good idea. I do definitely think an immersible on the field playing experience would attract a very large market in terms of the online OOTP Live concept of the game. I personally know a huge number of general baseball fans (probably around 30-40 people both as online baseball chatting buddies and people I know IRL) that I haven't been able to turn on to OOTP due to the fact that it is not a full online experience with thousands of gamers and the fact that the games don't really come to life while watching them inning by inning (Out of those 30-40, I've only been able to sell the game to one person, FWIW, and the 30-40 I'm talking about are baseball fanatics. The one I convinced loved the concept of the historical game and was a big 60's Cubs fan). The inning by inning gameplay is the major selling point for the game, IMO, with the "Live" version coming out once the viewable 2d or 3d representation has reached a level that it becomes the thing that sends it off in terms of massive appeal as an online subscription game. I really think you'd need a more immersive play by play game to sell the Gamespot and IGN crowd on your game, but even a fairly solid 2D version (with 3D being a future consideration) would do the trick, IMO.I am all for simply updating the 2d or 3d aspect of the game in this cycle because I think there is a huge untapped market for you to get into. Get a solid 2D on the field view of the game and release an online subscription version of the game and I really think you could take a huge jump forward in this type of gaming. Fantasy baseball players will probably be very attracted to this new online experience, and I know the people that I know would be very attracted to the concept provided the fees weren't outrageous (say, less than $10 per month). Out of the 30-40 baseball fanatics I know, only one has bitten so far, but if you presented an online game with an immersive 2d or 3d version, I could very realistically sell the game (I'm a good marketer ) to at least 20 of them, if not more.

Go for it, Markus, but make sure the 2d or 3d is quality before you make the decision. Just my humble opinion. I think the on the field experience of seeing the players actually play out each game is the next step for you from going to kind of an indie game to becoming the PC baseball game on the market. You already have the best system in terms of historical play, fictional play, or current season play with the work of the people on the real life rosters. Making the game play out on the field would open up a gigantic market for you, my very nice German friend (since about 2005 ) Get the immersive on the field play right (2d or 3d), and you put yourself on a rocket launcher in terms of future marketability and sales. Baseball is such a popular sport in the US, you could easily become the FM of the sport. With an interactive on the field experience, word of mouth and reviews would blast your sales through the sky, IMO, since their really aren't many baseball games on the market in the states that can fairly realistically handle the sport over multiple years of play (or decades even, with your game). Though I haven't played many of them, from what I stand, the franchise gameplay is basically broken if you want to play more than maybe 3-4 seasons. MLB:2010 the show is basically "the baseball experience" right now, but having viewed that game, I think you could blow it out of the water with a solid 2d/3d representation on the field.

Regardless of what you decide, I support you 100%. I try to sell your product to as many friends as I can, and I am fairly active on sports forums. Still, even with my recommendation (on sites that I'm considered to be a highly respected member), people are hesitant to buy your game. Any type of upgraded on the field representation would add a huge amount of sell-ability for someone like me that is just a fan and is not affiliated with your company. If you got the on the field immersion factor down, I could honestly sell probably 30-40 copies myself, and I bet that applies to a huge number of the member on here. The on the field representation is huge, for some reason (and actually, I hope you prioritize it, even though I enjoy blasting through historical seasons). The on the field representation is the future, my friends.

[thbroman]

Originally Posted by Aytumious

The on the field representation is the future, my friends.

Wow, this one is likely to touch off (another) civil war on the forum. Before people start shouting, let me say this:

I started playing baseball sims with Stratomatic, and I come from a generation where we listened to baseball on the radio as much as we watched it on TV. So in terms of personal wishes for this game, I am firmly against having OOTP introduce fancier graphics, if that represents any diversion of development effort away from continuing to improve the features of the game that I like.

But i appreciate that really making the game grow enough to allow Markus and Andreas to earn a decent living from it may require doing exactly what you are advocating. So we'll see. If Markus can continue to improve the financials, make for a richer historical environment, and the other things that keep people buying the game every year and work in the graphics in a way that won't so cramp the engine that it becomes a trade-off of some features against others, then all I can do is wish him well. But if not, I can stop buying a game as I have now done for 7 straight releases and stay with what i've got, which will last me a long, long time.

[bosunmate]

Originally Posted by thbroman

Wow, this one is likely to touch off (another) civil war on the forum. Before people start shouting, let me say this:

I started playing baseball sims with Stratomatic, and I come from a generation where we listened to baseball on the radio as much as we watched it on TV. So in terms of personal wishes for this game, I am firmly against having OOTP introduce fancier graphics, if that represents any diversion of development effort away from continuing to improve the features of the game that I like.

But i appreciate that really making the game grow enough to allow Markus and Andreas to earn a decent living from it may require doing exactly what you are advocating. So we'll see. If Markus can continue to improve the financials, make for a richer historical environment, and the other things that keep people buying the game every year and work in the graphics in a way that won't so cramp the engine that it becomes a trade-off of some features against others, then all I can do is wish him well. But if not, I can stop buying a game as I have now done for 7 straight releases and stay with what i've got, which will last me a long, long time.

I have to agree with Broman, i have bought every release from Season Ticket Baseball. I could also walk away now and be happy with OOTP 11 for ever, but i buy every year to support Markus. I am one of those who wish's Markus would take a year just to squish all the long standing bugs that come back year after year.... But i realize Markus has to eat also...

[thbroman]

Originally Posted by bosunmate

I have to agree with Broman, i have bought every release from Season Ticket Baseball. I could also walk away now and be happy with OOTP 11 for ever, but i buy every year to support Markus. I am one of those who wish's Markus would take a year just to squish all the long standing bugs that come back year after year.... But i realize Markus has to eat also...

Maybe he could charge by the bug.

[fspikec]

If if it takes away feature development/bug fixing, then no to online and no to graphics. But if they hire some help for those purposes, for sure I would like to see them.

[Cooleyvol]

A huge no from me to any online subscription......and if there are thoughts of changing the online portion of this game to an online service, count me as gone the minute that's announced.

[kckid4u]

I wasn't really excited about any of the future features. Then again, the game has most of the "needed" features now, and maybe those options are the only new features that are possible in the near future. Whatever is decided, I wish Markus great luck with whatever he decides to do.

[kckid4u]

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

A huge no from me to any online subscription......and if there are thoughts of changing the online portion of this game to an online service, count me as gone the minute that's announced.

[holley]

What wasn’t there, and you all probably know better than myself as to why, was the option for Voice play by play. Like BBW had. Used to love to set up the game then just minimize it and work away while listening to the game. Call me old school, but I do enjoy a baseball game on the radio. Personally I’d prefer this approach than some 3D/2D animation going on.

[ctorg]

I picked role-playing and financials. There where a few others (league associations in particular) that caught my interest, but those two are the top ones for me. I REALLY want to see the storyline engine reach its potential, as I think it will take the game to a more immersive level, and I'd love to see the financials become more realistic.

[mgom27]

The Storylines I would like to see are what Trade Rumors are out their like the Mets are willing to give up Fernando Martinez,Holt,Parnell and 2 draft Picks for Prince Fielder,that the city like Seattle has rejected the Mariners plans for a new Stadium or Dome. Maybe use mlbtraderumors.com as example. The Rangers have invited Pat Borders,Ian Snell,Tim Burke,John David,Sammy Henderson to camp as non Roster people.

With Stadium Design the abilty to pick what Restaruants it adds like maybe the Braves want a Hardees on the left side and a Coach's Bar and Grilli in the Middle but the Dodgers want their main store to be on the Right side and Dodgers Bullpen Bar to be out in Right field.

The Game needs live Play by Play,more Spring Training Options,Home Run Derby,Unretirements,past draft Classes,Interm people and so on.

Being able to load a Historical League but only use for Amaetur Drafts meaning I have a League I want to use 1979 and the League is a 2010 one because it would change the year to 1979 and dodn't want that but still have 79 League but in 2010.
Also if I move Boston to another League it's ML Teams should come with it if league has Minor Leagues with it.