A New Message I Hadn't seen before.

OldFatGuy · 06-03-2010, 05:14 PM

Well, not sure why I'm asking since I'm likely to go ahead and move forward without finding the answer since it's the offseason and I want to get to the next year....

.

But here's the situation. It's early November, the free agents haven't declared yet. My financial situation is TIIIIIIIIIGHT. I mean, I've got JUST enough to try and resign my number 2 pitcher who's just finished his 6 years and is ready to hit free agency for the first time.

He was asking way more than I could afford, but I thought, what the heck. Make him an offer. So I did, and got a message back saying something like "Good luck finding a starting pitcher." He wasn't pleased.

So, I run the numbers, and I'm soooo close, but I figure I'll add just about as much as I can, re-offer it to him, and let it be a take it or leave it.

Well, I got the response back, and it was one I've NEVER SEEN BEFORE. It simply said. "I'm only looking for another year and a modest pay increase. If you could agree to that, I could meet you halfway."

So what do you guys think?? Am I close enough to go for it??? I really don't have much room to wiggle, in fact as little as 200K might make my owner not approve. I'm really that close.

But does it sound to you like it might be worth one more offer?

daveawrit · 06-03-2010, 05:24 PM

If you are willing to have him be your only signing of the offseason, then I would go ahead and push it right to the brink, especially if he is truly an ace.

How will it set you up for the future though? Do you have any bad contracts coming off the books next year that may give you leverage in the years to come?

OldFatGuy · 06-03-2010, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveawrit

If you are willing to have him be your only signing of the offseason, then I would go ahead and push it right to the brink, especially if he is truly an ace.

How will it set you up for the future though? Do you have any bad contracts coming off the books next year that may give you leverage in the years to come?

Yeah, I've got one really bad one that comes off the books after one more year. I signed a long term to a perenial All-Star center fielder (pitching and defense are my priorities) and paid him very handsomely. Unfortunately, he got really, really old at the age of 33. I guess that's what happened, since he didn't suffer an injury. But at 33, his ratings started dropping like the Dow Jones in October 2008. He's now my highest salary and isn't even on the big club. So that should free me up at the end of next year.

And this guy isn't really an ace, but he is definitely a solid, solid number 2. He's consistenly over .500 every year. In fact, his career win-loss % is over .600. He doesn't dominate, but he keeps us in every game. You know, like that?? He's a good one though. And I like him.

snepp · 06-03-2010, 05:37 PM

If you're that tight against the budget and really want to get him signed you could offer a back-loaded contract.

OldFatGuy · 06-03-2010, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snepp

If you're that tight against the budget and really want to get him signed you could offer a back-loaded contract.

Yeah, I might try that.

I guess the reason I was posting was because of the message I got. I've never seen that one before, and I'm wondering if that really means something or is it more just cosmetic.

Is the program saying I'm really, really, really close to signing him? Or did this message come up randomly from a choice of messages when the two sides are just reasonably close? You know, the message gives the impression that we're REALLY close, and I'm just wondering if others have seen it and believe that's what it means.

never_ends · 06-03-2010, 05:42 PM

Everything will be fine until another team offers him some real dough... the current message will likely become part of forgotten history then...

snepp · 06-03-2010, 05:45 PM

I don't know how close it really is. It seems like my idea of close, and the player's idea of close, tend to differ quite a bit.

OldFatGuy · 06-03-2010, 06:01 PM

Well, it turns out it must just be cosmetic, because I did exactly what the message said and it didn't work.

His message basically said he wanted a little more money and one more year. So I added a little more money and one more year. I literally added every penny I could add, as I clicked on the "Add $10,000" button every time until I got the message the owner doesn't approve. And as I suspected, it wasn't a whole lot money. I knew I was close.

Anyway, I upped the money a little and added another year, and he turned me down again. So, knowing I can't add any more money, I added ANOTHER year, and he turned me down again. So then I reduced it by two years, which made it the same length as my original offer (in terms of years) but did have that little extra money in there.

That did the trick. He signed. But the message wasn't accurate, as it turns out he signed for a little more money but no additional year. When offered a little more money AND an additional year, he turned it down.

Oh well, no program is perfect. This one is about as good as it gets though when it comes to baseball. I still marvel over the fact that the best designer of a computer simulation of America's pasttime is German. That still blows my mind for some reason.

endgame · 06-03-2010, 06:29 PM

At least you got him signed and nailed down to the contract. As I was reading through the thread, I began to fear it would end with an "I'm done talking about it..." and that would have been very discouraging, given you'd put so much work into the negotiation. Thanks for the story, though. Interesting situation and one I hope not to find myself in anytime soon.

fintach · 06-03-2010, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldFatGuy

Well, I got the response back, and it was one I've NEVER SEEN BEFORE. It simply said. "I'm only looking for another year and a modest pay increase. If you could agree to that, I could meet you halfway."

I'm coming in late to this conversation, I'm afraid, but I think it's a question of interpretation. You interpreted the request as wanting an additional year and some money added to the offer. I think the player was speaking in more general terms: he wants a one-year contract with a modest (in his opinion) raise over what he just made.

In other words, I don't think the message was in error, it was just presented in a manner that made it ambiguous.

Then again, I'm new here. The only demands I've seen involving contract length always specified exactly what they wanted: 2 years, 3 years or, in one case, 5 years. I don't know how they usually ask for a 1 year extension.

Malleus Dei · 06-03-2010, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldFatGuy

I still marvel over the fact that the best designer of a computer simulation of America's pasttime is German. That still blows my mind for some reason.

Why? German quality is a byword. Germans make all the best stuff.

Cras · 06-03-2010, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

Why? German quality is a byword. Germans make all the best stuff.

Except for airplanes. Americans still make the best airplanes.

Killing Time · 06-03-2010, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cras

Except for airplanes. Americans still make the best airplanes.

Up until the German aircraft factories were bombed out in WW2 they were still making the best airplanes. Me-262, anyone?

Cras · 06-04-2010, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killing Time

Up until the German aircraft factories were bombed out in WW2 they were still making the best airplanes. Me-262, anyone?

Its a good argument. But I wouldnt say it is a hands down win for Nazi Germany. The P-51 aircraft was an impressive bird.

And since WWII, really nobody is close to American aviation. Military, civil, or otherwise.

Killing Time · 06-04-2010, 12:36 AM

The ME-262 was both heavier armed and over a hundred miles an hour faster than the P-51.

spitfire · 06-04-2010, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killing Time

The ME-262 was both heavier armed and over a hundred miles an hour faster than the P-51.

The 262 had twin jet engines. It had BETTER be faster and capable of carrying more ordnance than a prop-driven P-51!

The 262 certainly upped the ante over what the allies could put in the air at that point. But if you compare like with like, say the P-51 with the FW-190 or the Spitfire with the ME-109, it's pretty even.

Killing Time · 06-04-2010, 01:06 AM

The ME-262 was in service at the same time as the P-51 and the Spit. It's a fair comparison.

MizzouRah · 06-04-2010, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

Why? German quality is a byword. Germans make all the best stuff.

Who makes the best potato salad?

Killing Time · 06-04-2010, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Who makes the best potato salad?

My mother does.

MizzouRah · 06-04-2010, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killing Time

My mother does.

If it's the "mustard" kind, you have my vote.

06-03-2010, 05:14 PM	#1
OldFatGuy All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Northern Va., Loudoun County Posts: 1,896	A New Message I Hadn't seen before. Well, not sure why I'm asking since I'm likely to go ahead and move forward without finding the answer since it's the offseason and I want to get to the next year.... . But here's the situation. It's early November, the free agents haven't declared yet. My financial situation is TIIIIIIIIIGHT. I mean, I've got JUST enough to try and resign my number 2 pitcher who's just finished his 6 years and is ready to hit free agency for the first time. He was asking way more than I could afford, but I thought, what the heck. Make him an offer. So I did, and got a message back saying something like "Good luck finding a starting pitcher." He wasn't pleased. So, I run the numbers, and I'm soooo close, but I figure I'll add just about as much as I can, re-offer it to him, and let it be a take it or leave it. Well, I got the response back, and it was one I've NEVER SEEN BEFORE. It simply said. "I'm only looking for another year and a modest pay increase. If you could agree to that, I could meet you halfway." So what do you guys think?? Am I close enough to go for it??? I really don't have much room to wiggle, in fact as little as 200K might make my owner not approve. I'm really that close. But does it sound to you like it might be worth one more offer? __________________ I believed in drug testing a long time ago. In the 60's I tested everything. - Bill Lee Last edited by OldFatGuy; 06-03-2010 at 05:18 PM.

06-03-2010, 06:01 PM	#8
OldFatGuy All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Northern Va., Loudoun County Posts: 1,896	Well, it turns out it must just be cosmetic, because I did exactly what the message said and it didn't work. His message basically said he wanted a little more money and one more year. So I added a little more money and one more year. I literally added every penny I could add, as I clicked on the "Add $10,000" button every time until I got the message the owner doesn't approve. And as I suspected, it wasn't a whole lot money. I knew I was close. Anyway, I upped the money a little and added another year, and he turned me down again. So, knowing I can't add any more money, I added ANOTHER year, and he turned me down again. So then I reduced it by two years, which made it the same length as my original offer (in terms of years) but did have that little extra money in there. That did the trick. He signed. But the message wasn't accurate, as it turns out he signed for a little more money but no additional year. When offered a little more money AND an additional year, he turned it down. Oh well, no program is perfect. This one is about as good as it gets though when it comes to baseball. I still marvel over the fact that the best designer of a computer simulation of America's pasttime is German. That still blows my mind for some reason. __________________ I believed in drug testing a long time ago. In the 60's I tested everything. - Bill Lee

06-03-2010, 06:29 PM	#9
endgame Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 16,842	At least you got him signed and nailed down to the contract. As I was reading through the thread, I began to fear it would end with an "I'm done talking about it..." and that would have been very discouraging, given you'd put so much work into the negotiation. Thanks for the story, though. Interesting situation and one I hope not to find myself in anytime soon. __________________ "Try again. Fail again. Fail better." -- Samuel Beckett _____________________________________________

06-03-2010, 05:24 PM	#2
daveawrit Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: California Posts: 329	If you are willing to have him be your only signing of the offseason, then I would go ahead and push it right to the brink, especially if he is truly an ace. How will it set you up for the future though? Do you have any bad contracts coming off the books next year that may give you leverage in the years to come?

06-03-2010, 05:37 PM	#4
snepp All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,502	If you're that tight against the budget and really want to get him signed you could offer a back-loaded contract.

06-03-2010, 05:42 PM	#6
never_ends Minors (Double A) Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Nevada Posts: 133	Everything will be fine until another team offers him some real dough... the current message will likely become part of forgotten history then...

06-03-2010, 05:45 PM	#7
snepp All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,502	I don't know how close it really is. It seems like my idea of close, and the player's idea of close, tend to differ quite a bit.