Sort Like Values Alphabetically

Buane · 03-21-2010, 03:11 PM

I broached this issue back on the OOTPX boards some time ago, and I'd hope it would make its way into OOTPXI. As of yet, I haven't heard one way or another (which is unsurprising, considering it would qualify as a minor change to most people) so I figured I'd see if I could get some kind of response here.

Currently, OOTP will rank like values by their true value instead of the displayed value. In other words it will rank all players who have an "8" in Power by the player whose actual power is highest (with an 8 on the 1-10 scale representing a value of 140-159 on the game's 1-250 ratings scale). This means you can go to the league menu, view all players of the league, and figure out who has the higher "8" ratings of all players with "8" ratings, or whatever number you'd like on whatever ratings system you play with.

As a solo league player, this is almost a non-issue. Just resist the desire to sort the ratings!

But as an online league player, and the commissioner of an online league, this is very frustrating because people WILL sort by the ratings in a competitive environment, and that removes a fun element from the game: ratings ambiguity, or not knowing exactly what player has exactly what rating. Now, I know what you're going to say: "just use the scouting system if you want ratings ambiguity!" Unfortunately there are people, especially in the online league community, who don't like the scouting system because part of the fun in being the GM of an online team is doing your own scouting; deciding which players you think are going to succeed, and not having to rely on your computer to get a more accurate readout than that guy's computer.

Leagues that use the 1-10 or 1-20 or 1-5 ratings scale may do so to achieve ratings ambiguity (among other reasons). On a true 1-10 scale, you wouldn't know if the player you're drafting has an 8 in Power that's really an 8.9, or if its really an 8.1 or 8.5 or what - that comes down to luck of the draw. Heck, the game's existing option to hide ratings that are above 10/100 is rendered useless in practice, since you can still sort and pick out which players truly have an 11 or a 12 or a 13.

Compounding this problem, there are players who - believe it or not - do not play OOTP day in and day out and therefore are not well-versed enough with OOTP to know this bug exists. That puts them at a huge disadvantage in online leagues through no fault of their own. While their competition knows if a player has a high or low rating, they trust the ratings system and believe in the false ambiguity.

Even some that know about it can't utilize it to the fullest degree, since they'd have to spend even more time pouring over their players and pouring over the league and its draft classes to figure out whose ratings are better. Now you're just increasing the time that a team has to commit to an online league in order to compete.

I understand this issue is probably a non-entity for 75% of the people who play the game, but as someone who plays in online leagues that use a 1-10 talent scale, and someone who commishes a league with a 1-10 scale, I feel that the reason behind using that system is undercut by this design flaw. If I was in a league that used a 1-5 scale, I'd feel even more cheated.

The solution is to set OOTPXI to sort like ratings alphabetically - in other words, if I sort the players of the league by Power rating, then all the 10s would be listed alphabetically, then all the 9s, then all the 8s, etc. Another point is that it cannot be a local setting, but either hard-coded into the game or at least a league-specific setting, since it does no good if you can only turn on alphabetical sorting on your end.

I hope that this is an issue that can be addressed going forward, especially because I can't imagine it being difficult to fix. If you're in an online league, then this issue affects you too.

Malleus Dei · 03-21-2010, 03:43 PM

This is yet another thing that's long overdue.

Jontler · 03-21-2010, 05:33 PM

Definitely needs to be implemented. It's easy and it solves what's actually a pretty big problem in online leagues.

tehwholeworld · 03-21-2010, 05:36 PM

Please god yes. This is a massive problem and has been for quite some time now.

Cryomaniac · 03-22-2010, 05:25 AM

I reserve the right to amend the record to show my support for this thread.

/was watching too much of the healthcare debate last night.

Flying Dutchmen · 03-22-2010, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

I reserve the right to amend the record to show my support for this thread.

/was watching too much of the healthcare debate last night.

*drones uncontrollably* "Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to revise and extend my remarks regarding this [historic, flawed] health care bill."

bailey · 03-22-2010, 11:56 AM

I suppose commissioners who know about this bug ought to inform their players about it. I've been playing online for 3 years and never knew about it and I've had success in spite of not knowing.

BlitzburghBucco · 03-23-2010, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jontler

Definitely needs to be implemented. It's easy and it solves what's actually a pretty big problem in online leagues.

I agree.

tehwholeworld · 03-27-2010, 11:18 AM

Anyone? Yes?

No

Buane · 04-05-2010, 05:44 PM

Can we get word on whether this will be in OOTPXI or not? It's inclusion affects my online league conversion plans.

Childress · 04-05-2010, 06:07 PM

Wow, this a a major bug for online players. I was blissfully unaware.....

tehwholeworld · 04-08-2010, 05:00 PM

Don't worry, we can at least get walk-up music and baseball cards!!!!!!!

Seriously, this is an easy fix and has a major impact for online leagues. It'd be nice if someone would at least acknowledge that they are aware of this problem, so it doesn't seem as if we're talking to a brick wall.

Who Killed Kenny? · 04-08-2010, 05:12 PM

Has anyone added it to their defect list?

Cras · 04-08-2010, 05:27 PM

Darn, I wish I never read this thread. I never knew this to be the case, so now I hope it gets fixed. How many beers should it take for me to forget I ever read this thread?

Cras · 04-08-2010, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tehwholeworld

Don't worry, we can at least get walk-up music and baseball cards!!!!!!!

Seriously, this is an easy fix and has a major impact for online leagues. It'd be nice if someone would at least acknowledge that they are aware of this problem, so it doesn't seem as if we're talking to a brick wall.

Really, the walk up music thing is one of those features I never knew about, and really could not care any less about. Walk up music is for The Show. I dont even play with sound on....ever.

robc · 04-08-2010, 07:36 PM

As Who Killed Kenny stated, if this is a big issue that you feel needs to be addressed please go to the new tech support website and log it as an issue. Sure, someone may stumble across it here but that is the official channel to report issues. Might as well increase your odds of having it fixed.

Ktulu · 04-08-2010, 08:43 PM

It's been logged.

03-21-2010, 03:11 PM	#1
Buane Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 163	Sort Like Values Alphabetically I broached this issue back on the OOTPX boards some time ago, and I'd hope it would make its way into OOTPXI. As of yet, I haven't heard one way or another (which is unsurprising, considering it would qualify as a minor change to most people) so I figured I'd see if I could get some kind of response here. Currently, OOTP will rank like values by their true value instead of the displayed value. In other words it will rank all players who have an "8" in Power by the player whose actual power is highest (with an 8 on the 1-10 scale representing a value of 140-159 on the game's 1-250 ratings scale). This means you can go to the league menu, view all players of the league, and figure out who has the higher "8" ratings of all players with "8" ratings, or whatever number you'd like on whatever ratings system you play with. As a solo league player, this is almost a non-issue. Just resist the desire to sort the ratings! But as an online league player, and the commissioner of an online league, this is very frustrating because people WILL sort by the ratings in a competitive environment, and that removes a fun element from the game: ratings ambiguity, or not knowing exactly what player has exactly what rating. Now, I know what you're going to say: "just use the scouting system if you want ratings ambiguity!" Unfortunately there are people, especially in the online league community, who don't like the scouting system because part of the fun in being the GM of an online team is doing your own scouting; deciding which players you think are going to succeed, and not having to rely on your computer to get a more accurate readout than that guy's computer. Leagues that use the 1-10 or 1-20 or 1-5 ratings scale may do so to achieve ratings ambiguity (among other reasons). On a true 1-10 scale, you wouldn't know if the player you're drafting has an 8 in Power that's really an 8.9, or if its really an 8.1 or 8.5 or what - that comes down to luck of the draw. Heck, the game's existing option to hide ratings that are above 10/100 is rendered useless in practice, since you can still sort and pick out which players truly have an 11 or a 12 or a 13. Compounding this problem, there are players who - believe it or not - do not play OOTP day in and day out and therefore are not well-versed enough with OOTP to know this bug exists. That puts them at a huge disadvantage in online leagues through no fault of their own. While their competition knows if a player has a high or low rating, they trust the ratings system and believe in the false ambiguity. Even some that know about it can't utilize it to the fullest degree, since they'd have to spend even more time pouring over their players and pouring over the league and its draft classes to figure out whose ratings are better. Now you're just increasing the time that a team has to commit to an online league in order to compete. I understand this issue is probably a non-entity for 75% of the people who play the game, but as someone who plays in online leagues that use a 1-10 talent scale, and someone who commishes a league with a 1-10 scale, I feel that the reason behind using that system is undercut by this design flaw. If I was in a league that used a 1-5 scale, I'd feel even more cheated. The solution is to set OOTPXI to sort like ratings alphabetically - in other words, if I sort the players of the league by Power rating, then all the 10s would be listed alphabetically, then all the 9s, then all the 8s, etc. Another point is that it cannot be a local setting, but either hard-coded into the game or at least a league-specific setting, since it does no good if you can only turn on alphabetical sorting on your end. I hope that this is an issue that can be addressed going forward, especially because I can't imagine it being difficult to fix. If you're in an online league, then this issue affects you too. __________________ Commissioner - Rising Star League Congratulations to the 2060 Champion Buffalo Rangers!

03-21-2010, 05:36 PM	#4
tehwholeworld Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 43	Please god yes. This is a massive problem and has been for quite some time now. __________________ "I never set out to be weird. It was always other people who called me weird." -- Frank Zappa

03-22-2010, 05:25 AM	#5
Cryomaniac Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2007 Location: Hucknall, Notts, UK Posts: 4,902	I reserve the right to amend the record to show my support for this thread. /was watching too much of the healthcare debate last night. __________________

03-27-2010, 11:18 AM	#9
tehwholeworld Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 43	Anyone? Yes? No __________________ "I never set out to be weird. It was always other people who called me weird." -- Frank Zappa

04-05-2010, 05:44 PM	#10
Buane Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 163	Can we get word on whether this will be in OOTPXI or not? It's inclusion affects my online league conversion plans. __________________ Commissioner - Rising Star League Congratulations to the 2060 Champion Buffalo Rangers!

03-21-2010, 05:33 PM	#3
Jontler Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 36	Definitely needs to be implemented. It's easy and it solves what's actually a pretty big problem in online leagues.

03-22-2010, 11:56 AM	#7
bailey Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 3,365	I suppose commissioners who know about this bug ought to inform their players about it. I've been playing online for 3 years and never knew about it and I've had success in spite of not knowing.

04-05-2010, 06:07 PM	#11
Childress Minors (Double A) Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 180	Wow, this a a major bug for online players. I was blissfully unaware.....

04-08-2010, 05:00 PM	#12
tehwholeworld Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 43	Don't worry, we can at least get walk-up music and baseball cards!!!!!!! Seriously, this is an easy fix and has a major impact for online leagues. It'd be nice if someone would at least acknowledge that they are aware of this problem, so it doesn't seem as if we're talking to a brick wall. __________________ "I never set out to be weird. It was always other people who called me weird." -- Frank Zappa

04-08-2010, 05:12 PM	#13
Who Killed Kenny? Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 410	Has anyone added it to their defect list?

04-08-2010, 05:27 PM	#14
Cras Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: LEO Posts: 3,789	Darn, I wish I never read this thread. I never knew this to be the case, so now I hope it gets fixed. How many beers should it take for me to forget I ever read this thread? __________________ The Chicago White Sox 1906, 1917, 2005 World Series Champions 1900, 1901, 1906, 1917, 1919, 1959, 2005 American League Champions 2000, 2005, 2008 American League Central Division Champions 1983, 1993 American League West Division Champions OOTP \| Orbiter \| SSMS \| FSX \| LoL \| MLP:FIM!

04-08-2010, 07:36 PM	#16
robc Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 2,095	As Who Killed Kenny stated, if this is a big issue that you feel needs to be addressed please go to the new tech support website and log it as an issue. Sure, someone may stumble across it here but that is the official channel to report issues. Might as well increase your odds of having it fixed.

04-08-2010, 08:43 PM	#17
Ktulu Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: BC Posts: 4,506	It's been logged. __________________ "The ice is getting even more thinner, my friend!"