"Undo" button - was it added?

[texasmame]

I know it had been a feature many requested in the past - has it been included?

[BusterKing]

I think it's been requested for every version since the first release.

It's like a magic coding is needed for it or something.

[AirmenSmith]

My guess for it not being in the game is for the same reason quiting the game without saving isn't allowed. I think its viewed as cheating.

[Killing Time]

We sure need one.

[texasmame]

Originally Posted by AirmenSmith

My guess for it not being in the game is for the same reason quiting the game without saving isn't allowed. I think its viewed as cheating.

Well, it's not cheating when I accidentally drop a guy where I didn't want him and want to change it back. Besides, there are plenty of ways to "cheat" the game - what would one more do?

[Goody]

Its one of those "Keep a good man honest". The undo button would be tempting for some.

Putting your name and/or an unlocked lock on a box can "Keep a good man honest". But if you just leave 50 dollars in an unlocked box without a name on it and leave it laying around for a week...

[Difar]

As humans, we make mistakes every day (well some of us anyway).
Just like going through the take out window at your favorite drive thru. I order a Captain and Coke and get a Beam and Ginger. I "Undo" the mistake right then and there. But, if it's gone, sorry no refund.

Same with the "Undo" button. You have until, say the end of that day (or if a game is scheduled for that day, before the start of the game), to correct the "Mistake". Else it is "greyed out".

A very useful tool IMHO.

[Tullius]

Its one of those "Keep a good man honest". The undo button would be tempting for some.

This is not really a good answer. When you want cheat then go simply to the player editor and study the true ratings. Nobody prevents you.

But the undo button is simply a necassary because when you deal with rosters (and often a huge number of players) you will make a mistake and a player lands in the wrong spot. This has costs me already some games. Several time i wanted throw in a pinch hitter but then i drew him to the pitchers spot (i use DH). Now - although no ball is thrown - the pitcher is out, the pinch hitter is burned and i have to use an other reliever.

And other problem is when i resort my entire organization. Sometimes i have to change my originals intentions to make a good roundup. So my first thought was that player A (now in R) is called up but later i notice that i have to demote a player form a higher league and A remains better in R. No problem but because every move is immediately recorded the transaction log looks like the GM has a little bit drunken too much.

[markprior22]

If I remember correctly, Markus said a couple of years ago that when you drop someone in the lineup or pitching slot, that move is sent out to multiple peripheral parts of the game immediately (like the boxscore and other places I can't remember) and it would be a major undertaking to implement an "undo" button. I don't believe I've ever heard him or anyone affiliated with OOTP say it had anything to do with "keeping people honest." I don't think that plays a part at all.

[Goody]

Originally Posted by markprior22

If I remember correctly, Markus said a couple of years ago that when you drop someone in the lineup or pitching slot, that move is sent out to multiple peripheral parts of the game immediately (like the boxscore and other places I can't remember) and it would be a major undertaking to implement an "undo" button. I don't believe I've ever heard him or anyone affiliated with OOTP say it had anything to do with "keeping people honest." I don't think that plays a part at all.

Nonetheless...it does. The game writes constantly to various files as you go. The only way to get a clean back up is to restore an old full save. This has worked well for online leagues and has exposed cheating commish's in the past.

I agree it hinders the solo game somewhat.

[BusterKing]

It has nothing to do with cheating.

It's about dragging the wrong player into the lineup, you are screwed without an undo button and this has been mentioned for every version.

[Malleus Dei]

Markus knows we need it. He just doesn't want to code it.

Complain loud enough for long enough and he'll realize that he needs to do it.

Did you notice that we are finally getting mass select in XI? After how many years of telling him we needed it?

[BusterKing]

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

Markus knows we need it. He just doesn't want to code it.

Complain loud enough for long enough and he'll realize that he needs to do it.

Did you notice that we are finally getting mass select in XI? After how many years of telling him we needed it?

I know what you are saying but it shouldn't be this way.

We are asking for a BASIC function that should have been implemented from the get go. He ignored this even when he rebuilt the game with a new engine.

[Tullius]

Markus knows we need it. He just doesn't want to code it.

Complain loud enough for long enough and he'll realize that he needs to do it.

Did you notice that we are finally getting mass select in XI? After how many years of telling him we needed it?

It seems to me that including the "undo" button would require a massive change of code. A reason could be that the game uses an older database management system. Modern systems like ADO.net are so designed that between the orginal database and the "database in the memory" is a layer which is something like a placeholder (i have tried to explain it in a very simple way). So when you change something the original database is not affected until you want it. Then it is no problem to cancel changes. Modern database management systems use already transaction logs and so on so that you have as programmer much more opportunities.

What i have learnt here and by looking through some other threads is that the game uses only a very simple model. You change something and it is immediately saved. Period. It works well but is archaic and limits the options.

Now Markus can not simply use ADO.net because he supports also Macs and Linux. I sure there are solutions which can handle all plattforms but such an undertaken would require a rewrite of a big part of the engine.

[Malleus Dei]

And we know how much he hates rewriting any part of the engine.

[Crosley Field]

Originally Posted by markprior22

If I remember correctly, Markus said a couple of years ago that when you drop someone in the lineup or pitching slot, that move is sent out to multiple peripheral parts of the game immediately (like the boxscore and other places I can't remember) and it would be a major undertaking to implement an "undo" button.

How about a dialog box/window asking us to confirm important actions before changes are written to the database? Of course, we wouldn't want to (need to) confirm ALL actions. Just things that can really screw up the game for us, like letting go of the mouse at the wrong time, and a player gets dropped in the wrong place, and can't be corrected.

This might be easier than updating to database back end to a more modern solution, as Tullius suggested, although Tullius is correct that this needs to be addressed at some point.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by markprior22

If I remember correctly, Markus said a couple of years ago that when you drop someone in the lineup or pitching slot, that move is sent out to multiple peripheral parts of the game immediately (like the boxscore and other places I can't remember) and it would be a major undertaking to implement an "undo" button.

That's the reason why it isn't in there yet and probably will not be in OOTP 11 either.

[Smetana]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

That's the reason why it isn't in there yet and probably will not be in OOTP 11 either.

I understand why it would be difficult to implement, Markus. But, here's an idea. I'm no programmer, so I don't know if it's possible.

Instead of an "undo" feature, put a confirmation box on certain events, like lineup changes, roster moves, etc. You move the player, then a box pops up and asks if you want this to happen (kind of a Vista thing, but less annoying).

Essentially the same function as an undo button, but you have the chance to fix a mistake before it's made and saved to all these "peripheral databases" and such. Heck, it would also remove the cheating notion as a fringe benefit.

Any thoughts on this?

[Goody]

He would have to change all the text files to files that can be manipulated by code easier...for starters. Ouch.

HUGE undertaking. Which would remove a lot of customizability. (<---not a word)

[Crosley Field]

Originally Posted by Smetana

Instead of an "undo" feature, put a confirmation box on certain events, like lineup changes, roster moves, etc. You move the player, then a box pops up and asks if you want this to happen (kind of a Vista thing, but less annoying).

Essentially the same function as an undo button, but you have the chance to fix a mistake before it's made and saved to all these "peripheral databases" and such. Heck, it would also remove the cheating notion as a fringe benefit.

Any thoughts on this?

Kind of what I said 2 posts before yours, isn't it?