Use pre-defined draft value for AI option is broken

actionjackson · 01-20-2010, 01:57 PM

As these three posts will serve to illustrate with pictures. With the option checked it should improve the draft logic of the AI. But if one team (the Cleveland Spiders) can draft Kid Nichols in the 8th round and then Cy Young in the 12th round in the same draft,

something is amiss:

actionjackson · 01-20-2010, 01:59 PM

Next up, same draft in a different game with the option not checked:

actionjackson · 01-20-2010, 02:11 PM

As you can see the AI's draft logic is far more sound with this option not checked, then it is with it checked even though this option is supposed to bring sanity rather than chaos to the AI's draft logic. In the second example Nichols is taken first overall and Young 5th overall which is a dramatic improvement and infinitely more "logical" than the first example. The culprit? With this option checked the AI will select for each AI team in alphabetical order, giving the human historical gamer a whopping advantage over every AI team because the human knowing his alphabet can predict exactly who each AI team will take with each pick with 100% accuracy. While excellent in theory, this option needs a lot of work in order to become excellent in practice. While it is being fixed for OOTP XI *crosses fingers, toes*, I would highly recommend that historical gamers leave it unchecked unless of course they're shooting for a perfect season, or they enjoy laying waste to AI teams, which is neither my idea of a challenge nor a good time, but to each his own. "It's your game play it your way" after all.

actionjackson · 01-26-2010, 05:35 PM

Re-opened Feb. 1st.

actionjackson · 02-11-2010, 06:29 PM

This is still an issue. If one wants to make any modifications to the master.csv file whatsoever, one must remove the historical database.odb file. Doing so renders the pre-defined draft value for AI option useless and it simply drafts players in alphabetical order, which is far worse than leaving the option unchecked altogether as the OP should serve to illustrate. Just tested what happens when no modifications are made at all to the master.csv file and merely the historical database.odb is removed...Same result. In order to use any modded master.csv file you have to remove the .odb database, therefore this option is completely useless to those who play with modded databases, which flies in the face of "It's your game, play it your way." which is ******** to this particular gamer. Not impressed at all.

Tony M · 02-22-2010, 10:25 AM

ActionJackson,

I'm sorry that it has taken so long for someone to reply to your thread. I'm going to move it to the Historical Leagues forum as someone there (possibly Garlon or Spritze) will be able to give you an answer and possible solutions.

actionjackson · 02-23-2010, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony M

ActionJackson,

I'm sorry that it has taken so long for someone to reply to your thread. I'm going to move it to the Historical Leagues forum as someone there (possibly Garlon or Spritze) will be able to give you an answer and possible solutions.

No probs, and apologies if it looked like I was being an ungrateful child. OOTP is a small operation. I also have a particular fondness for that smilie, so I use it when I can. While I'm upset/disappointed that this issue exists at all and surprised that it hasn't been raised before, I don't think I was as angry as the "rant" smilie is despite throwing in the ******** even though it is ******** that this problem would occur. Everything that is in the unadulterated master.csv file is in the historical database.odb file and therefore theoretically what I'm trying to do should work. That's my beef. It makes no sense. You're right that Spritze or Garlon would know best. The funny thing is all the individual pitch info and fielding info transfers over, but not the draft rating. It makes no sense.

Spritze · 02-24-2010, 06:16 AM

Sorry but I have no answer nor any solution.

I think it just got broke at some point.

It was just supposed to fix the problem that can be seen on your first posted screen. They are all pitchers. Pitchers are way over rated in drafts by default.

actionjackson · 02-25-2010, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritze

Sorry but I have no answer nor any solution.

I think it just got broke at some point.

It was just supposed to fix the problem that can be seen on your first posted screen. They are all pitchers. Pitchers are way over rated in drafts by default.

For some reason, it works great with the historical database.odb in there. The trouble is to use most modded databases, you have to remove the .odb database, and then everything goes kabluie.

Spritze · 02-25-2010, 04:49 PM

That is because modded db's do not contain the draft value field, nor the historical pitch fields, nor the career fielding fields. The Spritze db's (all 6 of them) will contain all that in the OOTP11 and OOTPx versions to come out in April.

Until then I can send you a replacement Master.csv for your mod db that should fix you up. What mod are you using?

actionjackson · 03-14-2010, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritze

That is because modded db's do not contain the draft value field, nor the historical pitch fields, nor the career fielding fields. The Spritze db's (all 6 of them) will contain all that in the OOTP11 and OOTPx versions to come out in April.

Until then I can send you a replacement Master.csv for your mod db that should fix you up. What mod are you using?

Oye, way to follow up on your own thread action.

I'm using my own mod. I grabbed 20,000 random first and last names off a website that does these sorts of things and loaded the 17,264 needed to play through 2008 into the Master.csv file. I also blanked the birthState, birthCity, nameNote, nameGiven, and nameNick columns to get rid of obvious tipoffs like: MD, Baltimore,, George Herman, The Bambino etc and dumped the uniform numbers file. That way I'll be completely blind, with only scouting reports and stats to guide me, as I also turn all the ratings off. I did this because I wanted the balance/accuracy (thanks to re-calc) that historical leagues have over fictional leagues, without the predictability born of generally knowing how player X's career arc is going to go based on name recognition. Just checked all the 1871 names and it looks good to go, with the use pre-defined draft value option unchecked.

Also for some reason the draft value option does not work, but the historical pitch fields and career fielding fields do. Free no-prize for ya if you can explain that one.

EDIT: Removing uniform numbers file messes things up and creates fictional players all over the place in the draft pool instead of the real ones, at least with my random names. Should have had 64 RL players in 1871 amateur draft. Instead got 80 fictionals. After banging my head against a brick wall repeatedly while deleting 3 sets of 80 player draft pools, one player at a time, I had a lightbulb. I decided to put the uniform numbers file back in there and it worked like a charm.

01-20-2010, 01:57 PM	#1
actionjackson Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 6,163	Use pre-defined draft value for AI option is broken As these three posts will serve to illustrate with pictures. With the option checked it should improve the draft logic of the AI. But if one team (the Cleveland Spiders) can draft Kid Nichols in the 8th round and then Cy Young in the 12th round in the same draft, something is amiss: Attached Images Last edited by actionjackson; 01-20-2010 at 02:12 PM.

01-20-2010, 01:59 PM	#2
actionjackson Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 6,163	Next up, same draft in a different game with the option not checked: Attached Images

01-20-2010, 02:11 PM	#3
actionjackson Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 6,163	As you can see the AI's draft logic is far more sound with this option not checked, then it is with it checked even though this option is supposed to bring sanity rather than chaos to the AI's draft logic. In the second example Nichols is taken first overall and Young 5th overall which is a dramatic improvement and infinitely more "logical" than the first example. The culprit? With this option checked the AI will select for each AI team in alphabetical order, giving the human historical gamer a whopping advantage over every AI team because the human knowing his alphabet can predict exactly who each AI team will take with each pick with 100% accuracy. While excellent in theory, this option needs a lot of work in order to become excellent in practice. While it is being fixed for OOTP XI crosses fingers, toes, I would highly recommend that historical gamers leave it unchecked unless of course they're shooting for a perfect season, or they enjoy laying waste to AI teams, which is neither my idea of a challenge nor a good time, but to each his own. "It's your game play it your way" after all. Last edited by actionjackson; 01-26-2010 at 05:29 PM.

01-26-2010, 05:35 PM	#4
actionjackson Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 6,163	Re-opened Feb. 1st. Last edited by actionjackson; 02-11-2010 at 06:17 PM.

02-22-2010, 10:25 AM	#6
Tony M Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Here Posts: 6,156	ActionJackson, I'm sorry that it has taken so long for someone to reply to your thread. I'm going to move it to the Historical Leagues forum as someone there (possibly Garlon or Spritze) will be able to give you an answer and possible solutions. __________________ This signature is intentionally blank

02-11-2010, 06:29 PM	#5
actionjackson Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 6,163	This is still an issue. If one wants to make any modifications to the master.csv file whatsoever, one must remove the historical database.odb file. Doing so renders the pre-defined draft value for AI option useless and it simply drafts players in alphabetical order, which is far worse than leaving the option unchecked altogether as the OP should serve to illustrate. Just tested what happens when no modifications are made at all to the master.csv file and merely the historical database.odb is removed...Same result. In order to use any modded master.csv file you have to remove the .odb database, therefore this option is completely useless to those who play with modded databases, which flies in the face of "It's your game, play it your way." which is ******** to this particular gamer. Not impressed at all.

02-24-2010, 06:16 AM	#8
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,253	Sorry but I have no answer nor any solution. I think it just got broke at some point. It was just supposed to fix the problem that can be seen on your first posted screen. They are all pitchers. Pitchers are way over rated in drafts by default.

02-25-2010, 04:49 PM	#10
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,253	That is because modded db's do not contain the draft value field, nor the historical pitch fields, nor the career fielding fields. The Spritze db's (all 6 of them) will contain all that in the OOTP11 and OOTPx versions to come out in April. Until then I can send you a replacement Master.csv for your mod db that should fix you up. What mod are you using?