The Joba Rules SUCK!

tommybaseball · 08-30-2009, 02:32 PM

I am watching the Yankee game, and Joba Chamberlain was taken out of the game in the third inning, despite throwing just 35 pitches, thanks to the horrible Joba Rules. I can not believe this, and except for the fact that Alfredo Aceves is pitching well, I would have stopped being a Yankee fan.

jbergey22 · 08-30-2009, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommybaseball

I am watching the Yankee game, and Joba Chamberlain was taken out of the game in the third inning, despite throwing just 35 pitches, thanks to the horrible Joba Rules. I can not believe this, and except for the fact that Alfredo Aceves is pitching well, I would have stopped being a Yankee fan.

They took him out after 35 pitches? Are you positive he isnt hurt or something bothering him? I agree that the Joba rules are stupid but I cant see them starting a guy to make 35 pitches.

yankeesrule · 08-30-2009, 02:58 PM

there was no mention of him being injured. aceves just pitched 3 innings and now its to the rest of the pen. this is a joke, either let him pitch a legit start or put him in the pen, dont just jerk him around

RchW · 08-30-2009, 03:17 PM

There must be something else happening. In previous games he has thrown up to 90 pitches, right?

tommybaseball · 08-30-2009, 03:27 PM

Nothing is wrong, they just have an innings limit on him and think it is a good idea to have him throw three innings, even if he threw just 35 pitches.

RchW · 08-30-2009, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommybaseball

Nothing is wrong, they just have an innings limit on him and think it is a good idea to have him throw three innings, even if he threw just 35 pitches.

That's nuts. He is more likely to regress in such a restricted role.

TribeFanInNC · 08-30-2009, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

That's nuts. He is more likely to regress in such a restricted role.

I think they are trying to address the notion that young pitchers tend to get injured when they have big jumps in IP from one year to the next plus the general tendency of young pitchers to get gassed at the end of seasons when they go above previous IP totals. He only pitched 100 IP last year and is already up to 130 IP this year. The games don't really mean much to them and they want him fresh for the playoffs.

But I agree, pulling him after 35 pitches is kinda dumb.

RchW · 08-30-2009, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TribeFanInNC

I think they are trying to address the notion that young pitchers tend to get injured when they have big jumps in IP from one year to the next plus the general tendency of young pitchers to get gassed at the end of seasons when they go above previous IP totals. He only pitched 100 IP last year and is already up to 130 IP this year. The games don't really mean much to them and they want him fresh for the playoffs.

But I agree, pulling him after 35 pitches is kinda dumb.

I know what they think, I just disagree with both the application and the logic.

If they are truly concerned about total innings pitched then they should have limited his innings early in the year and slowly built him up as the season progressed. The current strategy is bass-ackward, and will result in him de-conditioning due to lack of work.

Not sure why I care, the Yankees are no favorite of mine. Frankly I'll enjoy it when CC comes up with a sore arm, AJ blows up under the pressure and the Yankees need 7 innings out of Joba and he can only go 3.

CMH · 08-30-2009, 08:51 PM

It is ridiculous. I didn't get to watch the game but was absolutely shocked when I read he only threw 35 pitches.

I can't imagine Joba being happy about it either. It's also a really easy way to mess up your bullpen. Aceves isn't always going to do this good of a job (though, I guess it's 50/50 sometimes with the starter too).

But, what else could they really do if they are trying to limit innings? They were worried that having him skip starts would affect his preparation. Now the belief is that getting him out there to throw will keep him on a schedule and also keep him fresh.

I'm sure they'll build him back up as the season closes.

Déjà Bru · 08-30-2009, 09:46 PM

I cannot even imagine this happening years ago - taking a starting pitcher out of a well-pitched ballgame before he could even qualify for the win. Unbelievable.

I agree with CMH. This is ridiculous. Chamberlain doesn't do well with irregular starts so now he will start regularly, but almost as a front-end relief pitcher.

Here's a question: Are they going to do this with every young pitcher? Or only the potentially special ones who will ruin other careers if he appears to break down under "too many innings"?

Here's another question: How soon until a six-man rotation becomes the new thing?

whizkid1950 · 08-30-2009, 10:05 PM

If only those stupid Yankees would follow the advice of us simulated baseball lovers more often. No wonder that franchise has never had any success!

TribeFanInNC · 08-30-2009, 10:08 PM

I would argue the Yankees did this to themselves by rushing a young pitcher to the majors to use him as an RP to win today, not caring if they had to have Joba Rules two years later. If they had left him alone in the minors, maybe he'd be able to pitch 200 innings now.

mlyons · 08-30-2009, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

I cannot even imagine this happening years ago - taking a starting pitcher out of a well-pitched ballgame before he could even qualify for the win. Unbelievable.

I agree with CMH. This is ridiculous. Chamberlain doesn't do well with irregular starts so now he will start regularly, but almost as a front-end relief pitcher.

Here's a question: Are they going to do this with every young pitcher? Or only the potentially special ones who will ruin other careers if he appears to break down under "too many innings"?

Here's another question: How soon until a six-man rotation becomes the new thing?

It's because of his past injury history.

Skipaway · 08-30-2009, 11:18 PM

What's the big deal?

Yankees have a comfortable lead, the roster is expanding, and Chamberlain has a bad injury history.

And why should they care about the arbitrary definition of a winning pitcher?

rudel.dietrich · 08-31-2009, 12:31 AM

I would love to see a team try and take pitching into brand new territory.
Something really revoloutionary in a effort to see if they can win more games.

My team would have the traditional 25 players. 12 pitchers and 13 bench players.
Lets say my budget is 100 million (the amount does not matter only the % dividing between pitching and hitting)
I spend only 20% of my budget on pitching. I go out and find some of the best middle relievers and set up men in baseball. I get 11 of them.
I set up a four day 'rotation' of 3 pitchers. Each pitcher pitches only three innings. I then hand it off to the next pitcher and so on.
These 11 relievers would be elite level relievers who could give it all they had for three innings.
Even if my team ERA is 4.00 I have only spent 20% of my team budget on pitching. I could then go out and spend the 80% on my offense and have a lineup of pure terror.
And my system would get better as the years went along. I would build my entire minor league system around teams of pitchers pitching three innings.
I could also find some money to keep some AAAA type pitchers in AAA for emergencies if a game goes into long extra innings and I have to use some of my pitchers from other days.
The system also benefits from a lot of interchangable parts. If a pitcher demands a lot of money or is injured it won't be like giving up or giving away a good starter. You can go out to the market and try and find another reliever who is willing to come to your team for a small salary increase that no other team will give him.

I wonder if this would work. I would really enjoy seeing the results.

TribeFanInNC · 08-31-2009, 08:34 AM

I've seen Tony LaRussa do what you propose for single games when his rotation had some holes. But certainly not a whole team designed around only having RPs.

jbergey22 · 08-31-2009, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

I would love to see a team try and take pitching into brand new territory.
Something really revoloutionary in a effort to see if they can win more games.

My team would have the traditional 25 players. 12 pitchers and 13 bench players.
Lets say my budget is 100 million (the amount does not matter only the % dividing between pitching and hitting)
I spend only 20% of my budget on pitching. I go out and find some of the best middle relievers and set up men in baseball. I get 11 of them.
I set up a four day 'rotation' of 3 pitchers. Each pitcher pitches only three innings. I then hand it off to the next pitcher and so on.
These 11 relievers would be elite level relievers who could give it all they had for three innings.
Even if my team ERA is 4.00 I have only spent 20% of my team budget on pitching. I could then go out and spend the 80% on my offense and have a lineup of pure terror.
And my system would get better as the years went along. I would build my entire minor league system around teams of pitchers pitching three innings.
I could also find some money to keep some AAAA type pitchers in AAA for emergencies if a game goes into long extra innings and I have to use some of my pitchers from other days.
The system also benefits from a lot of interchangable parts. If a pitcher demands a lot of money or is injured it won't be like giving up or giving away a good starter. You can go out to the market and try and find another reliever who is willing to come to your team for a small salary increase that no other team will give him.

I wonder if this would work. I would really enjoy seeing the results.

Its hard to say for sure but I would believe this system would fail. Each of your RP's are going to be averaging in the neighborhood of 120-160 IPs per year which would increase their chance of injury or being less effective by a lot. Also, if one of your pitchers is not effective in a game or two you will be putting enormous strain on the rest of that staff that is going to be overworked the way it is. Finally, in order to get these elite RP's that wont get shelled after a while you will need to allocate much more than 20 percent of your budget to paying these guys.

It might eventually work but might take years of tweaking to perfect a plan like this. It is a creative idea.

yankeesfan · 08-31-2009, 01:28 PM

i am a true yankees fan and i bleed true blue,but............i hate the way they are handling joba.how can they think that limiting his innings to 3 will jhelp him in the playoffs?starting pitching needs to goo way further than that and if they stick to this plan,he will not be able to handle the longevity that he needs to go in the playoffs.i think this will blow up in their faces.let him pitch like normal pitchers.look at the way texas is handling their pitchers.and thats coming from nolan ryan.good luck to the yankees and i hope they wake up on these joba rules.

yankeesfan · 08-31-2009, 01:31 PM

i say stop babying joba soo much anmd pampering him like they do.let him pitch !

damientheomen3 · 08-31-2009, 01:33 PM

the yankees want him to stay around 150 innings despite still starting games and he was at 130 before the start so they're not letting him pitch much. and yankeesfan, would you rather him pitch 200 innings and blow out his arm? I wouldn't.

08-30-2009, 02:32 PM	#1
tommybaseball Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Yankeeland Posts: 117	The Joba Rules SUCK! I am watching the Yankee game, and Joba Chamberlain was taken out of the game in the third inning, despite throwing just 35 pitches, thanks to the horrible Joba Rules. I can not believe this, and except for the fact that Alfredo Aceves is pitching well, I would have stopped being a Yankee fan.

08-30-2009, 03:17 PM	#4
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	There must be something else happening. In previous games he has thrown up to 90 pitches, right? __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

08-30-2009, 09:46 PM	#10
Déjà Bru Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Long Island Posts: 11,741	I cannot even imagine this happening years ago - taking a starting pitcher out of a well-pitched ballgame before he could even qualify for the win. Unbelievable. I agree with CMH. This is ridiculous. Chamberlain doesn't do well with irregular starts so now he will start regularly, but almost as a front-end relief pitcher. Here's a question: Are they going to do this with every young pitcher? Or only the potentially special ones who will ruin other careers if he appears to break down under "too many innings"? Here's another question: How soon until a six-man rotation becomes the new thing? __________________ - Bru

08-30-2009, 10:05 PM	#11
whizkid1950 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Wake Forest, NC Posts: 176	Joba Rules If only those stupid Yankees would follow the advice of us simulated baseball lovers more often. No wonder that franchise has never had any success!

08-30-2009, 11:18 PM	#14
Skipaway Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Where you live Posts: 11,017	What's the big deal? Yankees have a comfortable lead, the roster is expanding, and Chamberlain has a bad injury history. And why should they care about the arbitrary definition of a winning pitcher? __________________ Jonathan Haidt: Moral reasoning is really just a servant masquerading as a high priest.

08-30-2009, 02:58 PM	#3
yankeesrule All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,367	there was no mention of him being injured. aceves just pitched 3 innings and now its to the rest of the pen. this is a joke, either let him pitch a legit start or put him in the pen, dont just jerk him around

08-30-2009, 03:27 PM	#5
tommybaseball Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Yankeeland Posts: 117	Nothing is wrong, they just have an innings limit on him and think it is a good idea to have him throw three innings, even if he threw just 35 pitches.

08-30-2009, 08:51 PM	#9
CMH Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,057	It is ridiculous. I didn't get to watch the game but was absolutely shocked when I read he only threw 35 pitches. I can't imagine Joba being happy about it either. It's also a really easy way to mess up your bullpen. Aceves isn't always going to do this good of a job (though, I guess it's 50/50 sometimes with the starter too). But, what else could they really do if they are trying to limit innings? They were worried that having him skip starts would affect his preparation. Now the belief is that getting him out there to throw will keep him on a schedule and also keep him fresh. I'm sure they'll build him back up as the season closes.

08-30-2009, 10:08 PM	#12
TribeFanInNC Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,019	I would argue the Yankees did this to themselves by rushing a young pitcher to the majors to use him as an RP to win today, not caring if they had to have Joba Rules two years later. If they had left him alone in the minors, maybe he'd be able to pitch 200 innings now.

08-31-2009, 12:31 AM	#15
rudel.dietrich Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Zürich, Switzerland Posts: 8,608	I would love to see a team try and take pitching into brand new territory. Something really revoloutionary in a effort to see if they can win more games. My team would have the traditional 25 players. 12 pitchers and 13 bench players. Lets say my budget is 100 million (the amount does not matter only the % dividing between pitching and hitting) I spend only 20% of my budget on pitching. I go out and find some of the best middle relievers and set up men in baseball. I get 11 of them. I set up a four day 'rotation' of 3 pitchers. Each pitcher pitches only three innings. I then hand it off to the next pitcher and so on. These 11 relievers would be elite level relievers who could give it all they had for three innings. Even if my team ERA is 4.00 I have only spent 20% of my team budget on pitching. I could then go out and spend the 80% on my offense and have a lineup of pure terror. And my system would get better as the years went along. I would build my entire minor league system around teams of pitchers pitching three innings. I could also find some money to keep some AAAA type pitchers in AAA for emergencies if a game goes into long extra innings and I have to use some of my pitchers from other days. The system also benefits from a lot of interchangable parts. If a pitcher demands a lot of money or is injured it won't be like giving up or giving away a good starter. You can go out to the market and try and find another reliever who is willing to come to your team for a small salary increase that no other team will give him. I wonder if this would work. I would really enjoy seeing the results. Last edited by rudel.dietrich; 08-31-2009 at 12:37 AM.

08-31-2009, 08:34 AM	#16
TribeFanInNC Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,019	I've seen Tony LaRussa do what you propose for single games when his rotation had some holes. But certainly not a whole team designed around only having RPs.

08-31-2009, 01:28 PM	#18
yankeesfan Bat Boy Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 2	i hate the joba rules i am a true yankees fan and i bleed true blue,but............i hate the way they are handling joba.how can they think that limiting his innings to 3 will jhelp him in the playoffs?starting pitching needs to goo way further than that and if they stick to this plan,he will not be able to handle the longevity that he needs to go in the playoffs.i think this will blow up in their faces.let him pitch like normal pitchers.look at the way texas is handling their pitchers.and thats coming from nolan ryan.good luck to the yankees and i hope they wake up on these joba rules.

08-31-2009, 01:31 PM	#19
yankeesfan Bat Boy Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 2	let joba pitch i say stop babying joba soo much anmd pampering him like they do.let him pitch !