BZ 3346: Team File Import functionality Inconsistant

RchW · 06-24-2009, 06:59 PM

Because of travel I often export to FTP from the home box then import from FTP on my travel box. With OOTP X I can no longer do this.

Extremely annoying. It makes my online leagues very difficult to keep up with.

phillosopherp · 06-24-2009, 08:32 PM

is this an actual online league? Or is this a personal league that you just do through FTP?

If it is the first then you should be able to get the league file normally on the managers home page and check for new file or what ever it is called in the top left hand side of the home page.

If it is the second, can't you basically convert it to a online league through the league options so that you can use the league as if it were an online league even though it is only for you personally, thus allowing you to use the basic league file dl option?

Alan T · 06-24-2009, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phillosopherp

is this an actual online league? Or is this a personal league that you just do through FTP?

If it is the first then you should be able to get the league file normally on the managers home page and check for new file or what ever it is called in the top left hand side of the home page.

If it is the second, can't you basically convert it to a online league through the league options so that you can use the league as if it were an online league even though it is only for you personally, thus allowing you to use the basic league file dl option?

That wasn't what his issue was. He basically was using the Online league's FTP server as a file-share for when he was traveling, he could work on his team export some, export it via ftp, then go somewhere else (maybe a different computer) later and then choose to import it via ftp and continue working on the file to later re-export it via FTP again for the online league sim time.

There are a couple of issues with doing that in previous versions however.. the biggest was a known bug where on some transactions if you exported via FTP, then later made other changes to your export and re-exported, some of the first things you did were lost. (Happened alot with waiver transactions I believe). Another issue with this was a design decision that was made in OOTPX to try to be more "secure" by giving the commishes better control of what individual managers could export and import and what accounts are used to do so (to help prevent OOTP league websites from being hacked as was the case often in OOTP9).

So anyways, thinking through this a bit, I'm not sure that I can think of a good reason why someone shouldn't be able to Import their team file from FTP if they wanted to. As long as it uses the same account that is used to export them in the online configuration, it shouldn't add any security risk. Someone who knows what they are doing, can already do this outside of OOTP anyways if they really wanted to. The main reason I would hesitate to allow this is the other bugs that might creep back in from allowing this, but if you allow people to import from local computer, I believe the same issues arise there.

Anyways, this I think was a design decision originally, but probably something that Andreas might want to re-consider.

Alan T · 06-24-2009, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

Because of travel I often export to FTP from the home box then import from FTP on my travel box. With OOTP X I can no longer do this.

Extremely annoying. It makes my online leagues very difficult to keep up with.

RchW, in the meantime, what I can suggest for you is to do the following:

1) On your Home box, Export locally to your system (not via FTP).
2) On your home box, get the teamXX.ootp file that you exported and email it to yourself.
3) On your travel box, open your email and pull down the file into the correct directory
4) On your travel box, choose to import your team file from the local directory.

It is 2 extra steps, but they shouldn't be time consuming (you can do the entire process in under a minute), and it should be able to provide you the function you are looking for.

RchW · 06-24-2009, 09:18 PM

Yeah Alan you got it. I appreciate your work around and I may use it but I've been in and out of online leagues for 4-5 years now and I don't need any more work. The easiest work around would be to use the laptop exclusively

I'm puzzled as to how I could be the only person affected by this. I'm still annoyed.

Alan T · 06-25-2009, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

I'm puzzled as to how I could be the only person affected by this. I'm still annoyed.

I think many people stopped doing that in ootp9 simply because of the bugs that cropped up from doing it.. that is just my guess though, so could be wrong on why people stopped using that.

RchW · 06-26-2009, 08:48 PM

I just found out that this seems to be set via the commish. My other online league just converted to OOTPX and they have Import via FTP available.

Alan T · 06-27-2009, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

I just found out that this seems to be set via the commish. My other online league just converted to OOTPX and they have Import via FTP available.

There is no way for a commish to "enable" Team import via FTP. That information is not included in the league file and has to be set up by the commish individually on each system that he uses.

My only guess in your other league, if others have that option, they must either have commish level access or the only other thing I can think of is perhaps the commish in that league actually took his entire directory and zipped up everything (including login/password information that is not supposed to go to individual managers) and sent it out instead of letting the game do it for him. Perhaps when that is done it is giving everyone the option? It -shouldn't- do that, but I have not tested that and it could possibly be a bug that ends up being beneficial for what you want to do, but not so much for online league site security perhaps.

RchW · 06-27-2009, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan T

There is no way for a commish to "enable" Team import via FTP. That information is not included in the league file and has to be set up by the commish individually on each system that he uses.

My only guess in your other league, if others have that option, they must either have commish level access or the only other thing I can think of is perhaps the commish in that league actually took his entire directory and zipped up everything (including login/password information that is not supposed to go to individual managers) and sent it out instead of letting the game do it for him. Perhaps when that is done it is giving everyone the option? It -shouldn't- do that, but I have not tested that and it could possibly be a bug that ends up being beneficial for what you want to do, but not so much for online league site security perhaps.

I appreciate your help in this but I must be slow or something. This feature has been available in every previous version of OOTP that I've played (starting at v5) and is now available in one of my two online leagues. I'm not sure how this could be a bad thing and I don't remember any thread or discussion suggesting that this feature was a problem or would be eliminated.

The league where it currently doesn't appear in v 10 had it available in v9. the league just made the transition June 9th.

See the attached. First two are same league, different versions. The third is v10 different league.

Alan T · 06-27-2009, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

I appreciate your help in this but I must be slow or something. This feature has been available in every previous version of OOTP that I've played (starting at v5) and is now available in one of my two online leagues. I'm not sure how this could be a bad thing and I don't remember any thread or discussion suggesting that this feature was a problem or would be eliminated.

The league where it currently doesn't appear in v 10 had it available in v9. the league just made the transition June 9th.

I understand your frustration, but I believe what I said previously is still true though. The ability for a commish to enable the Import from FTP for individual users was removed as part of the changes to make OOTP more secure. There was quite a firestorm regarding various OOTP league websites being hacked in OOTP9, so Andreas went out of his way to try to implement changes in the game to keep OOTP league websites safe as far as OOTP is concerned.

As I mentioned before, I am personally not sure if the ability to allow individual managers to FTP their team export back in via FTP would cause too many risks from a security point of view, but there were known bugs in OOTP9 from people using this functionality that I fear would also re-enter with OOTPX if that is re-enabled as well.

As for your examples, I do believe what you are saying that one of your leagues you are able to do that. As I mentioned before, I think you are able to do that due to a possible bug/feature(?) based on how the commish in your one league created his zip file for the league. See the following:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andreas Raht

A commish can now create league files which do not contain any FTP or email settings at all. All FTP and email account settings are saved in <league folder.lg>/settings/accountsdata.dat and are encrypted. By putting them into a different folder they will not be copied with the .dat files by mistake when the commish creates a league file manually.

Based on that, and based on what you are saying that you see, I am guessing if a commish chooses to zip up their entire league.lg folder and provide it for the individual managers, instead of just the normal generated files from the game, it would include that settings/accountsdata.dat file in there as well. I haven't tested it yet (I am out of town with my wife for anniversary this weekend), but my guess is by having the information in your accountsdata.dat file for team export via ftp, that is all that is necessary for it to show up as an option for individual managers.

So in a sense, I think what you found is actually a bug, but a useful one if that makes sense

Hope that helps make it clearer..

Alan T · 06-27-2009, 01:19 PM

Ok, I just remote connected into my home servers and verified that if I go in to a league file as a commish and check the box "Use FTP for team file import" and then copy the settings/accountdata.dat file over to another system and logged in as a normal team manager in the league without commish ability, you now have the option to Import Team via FTP.

So theoretically that at least for now is a work around that you could possibly use in your other league to get access to the Import Team via FTP functionality, by having the commish include their accountdata.dat file into the league file. Once the settings are written once on your PC, they will remain, so you only need that file once. However I am not sure that I recommend commishes to do that from a security standpoint as that accountdata.dat file has other account information in it which was purposefully kept out of the league file just for the sake of keeping people from hacking league websites. So they should take precautions in how they provide that file to other managers.

Perhaps if they wanted to let their league owners use this functionality, they could erase ALL of their league settings from the online settings other than the Team export upload, team export download and league file download and then export this file to everyone. Then add the rest of their settings back afterwards. That might be the safest work around I could think of.

That said, I'm going to log this entire case as a bug.. because at the least, this is inconsistent behavior. Either team managers should be given the ability to import their file via FTP (at the commish's discretion), or they shouldn't. There shouldn't be a need to have to work around like this to get a functionality.

Alan T · 06-27-2009, 01:28 PM

Ok, I logged BZ 3346 for this issue and tried to do justice in explaining what the bug is as well as trying to explain why some online managers find this functionality useful and commishes should be given the option to at least include this setting in the league file as well if they wish (which would turn this function on).

Now it is in Andreas' hands

RchW · 06-27-2009, 02:03 PM

Thank you. I now understand the issue better. If it affects security I can live without it.

However if it can work securely, I'd like to have it.

battists · 06-30-2009, 07:50 PM

Moving this to the Logged Issues subforum!

06-24-2009, 06:59 PM	#1
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	BZ 3346: Team File Import functionality Inconsistant Because of travel I often export to FTP from the home box then import from FTP on my travel box. With OOTP X I can no longer do this. Extremely annoying. It makes my online leagues very difficult to keep up with. Attached Images __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

06-24-2009, 09:18 PM	#5
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	Yeah Alan you got it. I appreciate your work around and I may use it but I've been in and out of online leagues for 4-5 years now and I don't need any more work. The easiest work around would be to use the laptop exclusively I'm puzzled as to how I could be the only person affected by this. I'm still annoyed. __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

06-26-2009, 08:48 PM	#7
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	I just found out that this seems to be set via the commish. My other online league just converted to OOTPX and they have Import via FTP available. __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

06-27-2009, 01:19 PM	#11
Alan T All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mass. Posts: 1,963	Ok, I just remote connected into my home servers and verified that if I go in to a league file as a commish and check the box "Use FTP for team file import" and then copy the settings/accountdata.dat file over to another system and logged in as a normal team manager in the league without commish ability, you now have the option to Import Team via FTP. So theoretically that at least for now is a work around that you could possibly use in your other league to get access to the Import Team via FTP functionality, by having the commish include their accountdata.dat file into the league file. Once the settings are written once on your PC, they will remain, so you only need that file once. However I am not sure that I recommend commishes to do that from a security standpoint as that accountdata.dat file has other account information in it which was purposefully kept out of the league file just for the sake of keeping people from hacking league websites. So they should take precautions in how they provide that file to other managers. Perhaps if they wanted to let their league owners use this functionality, they could erase ALL of their league settings from the online settings other than the Team export upload, team export download and league file download and then export this file to everyone. Then add the rest of their settings back afterwards. That might be the safest work around I could think of. That said, I'm going to log this entire case as a bug.. because at the least, this is inconsistent behavior. Either team managers should be given the ability to import their file via FTP (at the commish's discretion), or they shouldn't. There shouldn't be a need to have to work around like this to get a functionality. __________________ - Front Office Offseason League. (Fast Paced OOTP-X and OOTP11 leagues, sims one season every week)

06-27-2009, 01:28 PM	#12
Alan T All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mass. Posts: 1,963	Ok, I logged BZ 3346 for this issue and tried to do justice in explaining what the bug is as well as trying to explain why some online managers find this functionality useful and commishes should be given the option to at least include this setting in the league file as well if they wish (which would turn this function on). Now it is in Andreas' hands __________________ - Front Office Offseason League. (Fast Paced OOTP-X and OOTP11 leagues, sims one season every week)

06-27-2009, 02:03 PM	#13
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	Thank you. I now understand the issue better. If it affects security I can live without it. However if it can work securely, I'd like to have it. __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

06-30-2009, 07:50 PM	#14
battists Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,506	Moving this to the Logged Issues subforum! __________________ Come check out my dynasty report, Funky Times!