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TBCB Inside the Ropes Your game and fantasy fights

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Old 06-20-2009, 10:27 PM   #1
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Shoulda' but Didna' -- Great Fights That Never Were

Reading the thread in general discussions about the cancellation of Valuev-Chagaev and subsequent pairing of Wlad Klitschko and the sporting world's most famous hepatitis sufferer got me thinking about how far things have fallen.

Imagine, the lineal heavyweight title being filled for the first time in four years, and the fight is on second-tier cable television.

Not that the general American public missed a whole lot today. Like most of Wlad's recent fights, his pummeling of Chagaev lacked much in the way of drama. Even the ending was anti-climactic, with the referee waving it off between rounds and the WBA champion-in-recess, or whatever he's called, not exactly flying off his stool in protest. Making it more aggravating is the reality that the most intriguing matchup out there will never take place -- Klitschko v. Klitschko.

Which brings us to the point. The ability to produce matchups that never occurred, be it due to timing, economics or the time-space continuum first drew me to Data Boxing (and APBA Football, Strat-o-matic Football, Baseball, Basketball and Hockey and the highly underrated Extra Innings Baseball) as a kid.

I've got a couple of other threads going, each of which has the potential to carry on until the Internet becomes obsolete. So this will be a home for occasional one-off superfights of every color. I'm going to start with the Klitschkos finally dispensing with the brotherly affection, with future bouts like:

---Hagler v. Leonard when it should have happened, in the early '80s, and would have if not for the Sugared One's detached retina, and other too-long-delayed tilts like Tyson-Holyfield (1991-92)

---Foreman v. Shavers at the mid-70s peak of each atomic slugger's destructive power.

---Would Frazier have fared any better against Liston than Foreman?

---Marciano against a peak Joe Louis?

---The real Sugar Ray against Archie Moore?

---Immediate rematches that weren't, like Chavez-Taylor II six months, instead of four years, later (and, while we're at it, Chavez-Whitaker II, ever) and Lewis-V. Klitschko II.

At least to start with, I'm going to try to keep this to pairings that could have actually occurred, meaning their careers overlapped. Peak periods may be adjusted, as in the Marciano-Louis example above. Or, maybe a pre-prime Rock against a post-prime Joe ... once again, the possibilities are infinite.

After Klitschko v. Klitschko, each matchup will be posted in advance, with plenty of pre-fight hype -- real and imagined. Predictions and other commentary is strongly encouraged.

And, of course, if you have any requests, please post them as well.
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Old 06-20-2009, 10:54 PM   #2
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Wladimir Klitschko v. Vitali Klitschko, June 20, 2009



Wladimir Klitschko, recognized as heavyweight champion by the IBF, IBO, WBO and most recently, the IGA, has finally agreed to face his brother, Vitali, the WBC beltholder, to settle once and for all the question that has tormented the boxing world for several years:

Who did Mrs. Klitschko in fact like best?

Besides the kazillions of euros at stake, Wladimir reportedly agreed to take the fight if, and only if, Vitali would cease and desist all wet willies, wedgies and Native American burns should his younger brother prevail.

The 12-round bout will take place at Veltins Arena in Gelsenkirchen, Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany due to its proximity to the fan base of both fighters and the indisputable fact that it looks cool all lit up.


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Old 06-20-2009, 11:14 PM   #3
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PRE-FIGHT


Wladimir (53-3, 47 KOs) and Vitali (37-2, 36) stare impassively at each other throughout referee Eddie Cotton's instructions. When he orders them to touch gloves, they simultaneously say, "I must break you."

"Hey, I was supposed to say that!" complains Wladimir.

"I'm older, so I should get the cool line," sneers the 6-foot, 7 1/2-inch Vitali, who weighed in at an even 250. "Just like I got the sweet nickname 'Dr. Ironfist,' and you got 'Dr. Steelhammer.'"

"Yah, you will break me," says Wladimir, an inch shorter and nearly 10 pounds lighter at 240 1/4, than his brother, as he turns and walks to his corner. "That one is funny."

"We will see who is not laughing now," says Vitali.
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Old 06-21-2009, 12:39 PM   #4
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Klitschko-Klitschko

ROUND 1

The brothers stride purposefully to the center of the ring after the opening bell. Vitali blocks Wladimir's hook to the body, then lands one of his own that connects with a thud.

Wlad responds with a right hand down the pipe that snaps Vitali's head back, but fails in his efforts to follow up with body work.

Continuing to dispense with niceties like jabbing, Vitali scores with a head-snapping right uppercut, which sends Wladimir stumbling back into the ropes.

Wladimir uses his superior quickness afoot to get back to the center of the ring, but before he sets himself, big brother delivers another thudding hook under the ribs.

After Vitali misses with a pawing jab, the fighters circle each other for a few moments. Seeing an opening, Vitali launches a left hook up top that lands flush, with the force of a sledgehammer hitting a watermelon. Wladimir stumbles forward before crashing face-first to the mat.
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Old 06-21-2009, 12:43 PM   #5
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Klitschko-Klitschko

ROUND 1, continued

The crowd of 60,000 is stunned into silence for a second, then begins roaring as referee Eddie Cotton moves in, pushes an equally stunned Vitali back to his corner and begins counting:

1 ... (Wladimir's eyes open, as if from a nap, and he instinctively begins trying to get to his feet)

2 ...

3 ...

4 ...

Wladimir is up, but barely able to keep his feet. He leans back into the ropes for balance as Cotton asks him if he's OK. He blinks several times and nods. Cottons asks if he knows where he is, and he says, "Germany." Cotton shrugs as if to say, "Good enough" and waves the fighters together.

Vitali, apparently over his initial concern, wades in punching, hooking off a jab to the body, causing Wladimir to stagger to his left. Vitali follows along the ropes, but the bell rings before he can do any further damage.
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Old 06-21-2009, 12:56 PM   #6
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Klitschko-Klitschko

ROUND 2

His psyche restored by Emmanuel Steward's words between rounds, Wladimir comes out as if the first round never happened, firing his trademark left jab and following up with quick rights, landing a pair of such combos that keep Vitali from wading in as he did in the first.

Wladimir lands another hard right, then scores with a hook at the beltline. Vitali answers with his own right to the head.

Wladimir drills a jab to the face, sending Vitali into a corner and forcing him to initiate the fight's first clinch. Cotton breaks them, but Vitali bulls his brother back into the corner, where he delivers a sweet double jab and follows with a vicious right that causes Wladimir to clinch.

They break, and trade punches as the bell rings and even after. The crowd continues to roar through the 60-second break.

Ringside expert Mark Somogyi has it 19-18, Vitali on his unofficial scorecard.
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Old 06-21-2009, 01:05 PM   #7
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Klitschko-Klitschko

ROUND 3

Vitali misses with a right up top at center ring. Wladimir keeps his guard up, leaving himself open for a wince-inducing two-handed attack to the body.

Wladimir backs away and circles to his right, leading Vitali to stand still and motion his brother in with both gloves, then drop his gloves to his sides.

The inducement works, but not in the way Vitali may have intended. He misses with both ends of a hard one-two, leaving himself open to a powerful counter-right.

Vitali looks hurt, but when Wladimir moves in to follow up, responds with a thudding right uppercut that sends the younger sibling staggering into a neutral corner. Vitali follows up with a straight right and an uppercut, but Wladimir shows his resolve with a snapping left-right to the face.

Vitali deftly blocks Wladimir's attempt to reach his ribs and the two are still throwing at the bell, again forcing Cotton to break them up and send them to their corners.

At ringside, Somogyi sees it as a clear-cut round for Vitali, giving him a 29-27 edge on his unofficial scorecard.
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Old 06-21-2009, 01:16 PM   #8
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Klitschko-Klitschko

ROUND 4


Wladimir blocks Vitali's body shots, but the force pushes him back to the ropes. To clear an escape path, he unloads a right cross that lands flush on Vitali's cheekbone.

After a clinch and some circling, Wladimir lands a tentative jab. Vitali clinches in an effort to tire Wladimir. After breaking, he feints as if throwing a left hook to the body, then adjusts his aim and bashes Wladimir on the side of the head.

Wladimir looks stunned, but if he is, instinct aims a big right that turns Vitali's head and forces him back a step.

They take turns scoring for the rest of the round: Vitali with a left-right to the head, Wladimir with an uppercut and Vitali with a glancing jab.

This time, they're sizing each other up at the bell and nod to each other before heading back to their corners.

With the fight one-third complete, Somogyi has it 38-37, Vitali, giving Wladimir a slight edge in the fourth.
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Old 06-21-2009, 01:25 PM   #9
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Klitschko-Klitschko

ROUND 5

A pattern is forming, with Vitali wading ever forward as Wladimir, while not in full retreat, attempts to keep his brother at the end of his jab.

Early in the round, Wladimir lands an uppercut to Vitali's throat, causing him visible distress and possible difficulty breathing. Wladimir lands several body shots, driving Vitali to the ropes. One is a bit off target, causing Cotton to warn Wladimir for kidney punching.

Wladimir goes right back to work on Vitali's body, until being driven away by a clubbing right hand to the head that has him on unsteady legs once again.

Wladimir sidesteps Vitali's charge, escaping the ropes and moving to center ring. Thinking he has his brother hurt to the point of vulnerability, Vitali rushes forward and is met a left jab, right cross and left hook thrown with lightning speed and bad intentions.

And DOWN GOES VITALI!
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Old 06-21-2009, 01:34 PM   #10
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Klitschko-Klitschko

ROUND 5 continued

Now it's Wladimir who looks concerned about what his fists have just wrought, looking at his older brother on the canvas for the first time in his professional career.

With Vitali already working on getting upright, Eddie Cotton moves in and begins counting.

1 ...

2 ...

3 ...

Vitali is up and stands steadily, but his eyes are wide as he answers Cotton's questions. Apparently, his answers are correct, as Cotton motions to the fighters to resume hostilities.

Wladimir rushes in, keeping Vitali pinned on the ropes. Wladimir lands a smashing right cross, followed by an uppercut that slices through Vitali's clumsily raised guard and lands flush, sending him staggering across the ring.

Wladimir and Cotton each chase Vitali, the former ready to follow up and the latter possibly about to intercede and end the fight when the bell rings. Vitali, realizing he's out of danger, looks around for a minute before ascertaining which corner is his and trudging in that direction ...

The knockdown gives Wladimir a 10-8 round and a 47-46 lead on Somogyi's unofficial scorecard.
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Old 06-21-2009, 01:46 PM   #11
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Klitschko-Klitschko

ROUND 6

The fighters meet at center ring and immediately commence throwing bombs. They're trading evenly when Vitali lands a right cross, followed by a double hook to the side of the face.

Each misses with a home-run swing before Wladimir flurries to the body and Vitali connects with a one-two to the head.

A right to the belt line seems to take the wind out of Vitali, allowing Wladimir to follow up with a hard jab to the same spot. Vitali recovers enough to land a left hook at the waistline that causes Wladimir to drop his guard.

Vitali capitalizes immediately, landing a one-two that staggers Wladimir and causes some minor swelling to appear under his right eye -- the first visible wound sustained by either fighter.

Despite Vitali's strong finish, Somogyi sees the round as Wladimir's, giving the younger Klitschko an unofficial 57-55 lead at the fight's midway point.
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Old 06-21-2009, 01:51 PM   #12
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Klitschko-Klitschko

ROUND 7

It's the first slow round of the fight, as both fighters seem more concerned about catching their breath than doing damage.

A pair of big rights early and a couple of jabs late constitute the bulk of Wladimir's offense for the three minutes, while Vitali scores with a couple of jabs and a left hook to the body.

Somogyi gives Wladimir another round for a 67-64 lead -- the fourth straight he's called for the younger Klitschko. But Wladimir, his right eye continuing to puff, is gulping air as he goes back to his corner at the bell. Are the endurance issues that did him in against Purrity, et. al beginning to rear up again?
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Old 06-21-2009, 02:13 PM   #13
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Klitschko-Klitschko

ROUND 8

Perhaps sensing his brother's fatigue, Vitali stomps across the ring and delivers a jolting left jab, following it with a crushing right that sends Wladimir stumbling back into the ropes.

A right cross snaps Wladimir's head directly back, and a follow-up combination leaves his right eye looking even worse than it did between rounds, when cutman Jacob "Stitch" Duran was unable to do much to decrease the swelling.

Wladimir clinches, but after Cotton breaks them up, Vitali unloads with another right cross, sending his brother wobbling into his own corner.

Vitali wards off an attempted clinch with a left hook to the body, then readjusts his aim to score with a left uppercut that keeps Wladimir pinned in his corner, inches away from a frantic Emanuel Steward.

Wladimir has enough presence of mind left to clinch. After Cotton breaks them up, Vitali misses with a right but follows up with a thunderous left hook that sends Wladimir stumbling along the ropes into a neutral corner.

Wladimir, his right eye nearly swollen shut, tries to steady himself to repel Vitali's onslaught. But a desperation right misses badly, leaving him wide open for another neck-swiveling left hook from Vitali. The impact robs Wladimir of what's left of his legs and drapes him over the top rope, his left arm all that keeps him off the floor.

Vitali, looking at once furious and terrified, hesitates. Cotton, seeing how badly Wladimir is hurt, jumps between the brothers and waves the fight over with only three seconds left in the eighth round.

Wladimir's weight causes him to slowly slump to the canvas, where he sits shaking his head as Steward, Duran, the ring doctor and Vitali rush to his assistance.

After a few moments, satisfied that he will be OK, they help him to his feet and out of the ring as Michael Buffer takes the microphone.

"Referee Eddie Cotton stops the fight at 2:57 of round number eight. The winner by technical knockout, still the WBC heavyweight champion and NEW IBF, WBO and IBO champion -- Vitali "Doctor Ironfist" KLEEEEEET-SCHKO!"


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Old 06-22-2009, 12:40 AM   #14
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How 'bout Lennox Lewis vs Riddick Bowe? Tyson vs Bowe, maybe.
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Old 06-22-2009, 04:17 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenyan_cheena View Post
How 'bout Lennox Lewis vs Riddick Bowe? Tyson vs Bowe, maybe.
I was always pissed Bowe and Lewis never got into the ring together.
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Old 06-22-2009, 08:35 PM   #16
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Quote:
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How 'bout Lennox Lewis vs Riddick Bowe? Tyson vs Bowe, maybe.
Both of those will be on the agenda, for sure. Perhaps some Lewis-V. Klitschko II, a pre-going-through-the-motions Tyson v. one or both Klitschkos (one at a time, of course, although that might make an interesting feature for TB3), and ...
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Old 06-23-2009, 02:24 PM   #17
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I was always pissed Bowe and Lewis never got into the ring together.
Bowe never really wanted anything to do with Lewis, and when he had a chance he threw his belt away rather than fight him. They should have fought, but I believe Lewis probably would have stopped him in the mid to late rounds.

Low blows aside Bowe took two beatings from Andrew Golota, and was never the same man let alone the same fighter, and that is sad.
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Old 06-23-2009, 05:05 PM   #18
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Bowe never really wanted anything to do with Lewis, and when he had a chance he threw his belt away rather than fight him. They should have fought, but I believe Lewis probably would have stopped him in the mid to late rounds.

Low blows aside Bowe took two beatings from Andrew Golota, and was never the same man let alone the same fighter, and that is sad.
Yep, I can remember that. After one of his title defenses Lewis confronted Bowe in the ring and repeatedly told him he was going to knock him out in a calm voice. Bowe's reply was something like "you ain't knockin' no one out". I think it was pretty obvious that he didn't want to be embarrassed by Lennox again, like at the Olympics.

Would have been a good fight if Bowe had the stomach for some revenge. Hopefully we get to see it eventually in my TGPiS uni.
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Old 06-27-2009, 08:51 PM   #19
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As mentioned above, there are infinite possibilities here in the heavyweight division, between the racial politics of the first half of the 20th Century, the lunacy of sanctioning bodies in the latter half, the inability of several top heavies to stay out of prison, and so forth.

To add some variety to the proceedings, though, I'll be making a concerted effort to mix in the lighter divisions, as well. So next up is what could have been a legendary middleweight battle, had it ever happened.

After four years out of the ring during World War II, middleweight champion Tony Zale returned from military service and resumed his ring career. After several tune-up fights, he embarked on his trilogy with Rocky Graziano, one of the great trilogies in any sport.



There was a downside to the back-and-forth between Zale and Graziano, though. It tied up the middleweight title for nearly three years, as each combatant understandably needed time to recover from their brutal encounters.

Those three years were the end of the peak period of one of boxing's unjustly uncrowned champions -- Charley Burley. Burley should have had a shot at Henry Armstrong's welterweight crown shortly before America entered WWII, having beaten top contender Fritzie Zivic. But Armstong's manager sold his contract to Zivic's manager, who parlayed the business maneuver into a title shot for Fritzie. He won. Burley waited.



Burley moved up to middleweight and won the California state belt. He never got a chance to fight for a world title, as the championship was in limbo through the war and, when it ended, neither Zale, Graziano, Marcel Cerdan nor Sugar Ray Robinson were willing to risk facing even an aging Burley. Burley retired at age 33 in 1950 and spent the rest of his working life collecting garbage in Pittsburgh. He died in 1992, a few months after being inducted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame.

In our little world, though, Zale returns eager to prove himself against the best in the world and he knows that means fighting Charley Burley.

After taking a half-dozen fights to work off the ring rust, winning all by early knockouts, Zale signs to fight Burley on July 11 at Yankee Stadium.

At age 28, Burley's record is 75-10-2 with 46 knockouts. He is on a 21-1-1 run, with one no-contest, since 1942. That run includes wins over Oakland Billy Smith (twice), Aaron Wade, Joe Carter and Archie Moore, with the only loss coming via a close 12-round decision against Holman Williams at Civic Stadium in Buffalo. The draw was with Cocoa Kid in New Orleans.

Zale is 57-16-2 with 35 knockouts.

Pre-fight hype to follow.
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Old 06-28-2009, 10:33 AM   #20
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A Charley Burley reader

1) A solid overview of his career and the reasons he never got a title shot.

2) A nicely researched piece on Burley's win over Archie Moore. The most interesting part -- the discussion over how much notice he had before the fight, including a version in which Charley's working in an aircraft factory in San Diego when he gets the call that Moore needs an opponent that night, and takes a bus to Hollywood in time for the first bell.

3) On Burley's life out of the ring, in the form of an interview with a writer who grew up in his neighborhood.

4) Another theory on why Burley was shunned by the big names. I think there's some truth here, but I think the first commenter is right -- awfully tough to fully judge a guy who had nearly 100 fights on the basis of one (against a guy 15 pounds heavier, no less). But from reading descriptions of the fight, and watching the clip referred to in this article -- which can be seen here on YouTube -- you get the impression of a 40s version of Winky Wright. Of course, I love Winky's fights, but it's not exactly a style that appeals to everyone.
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