Blown Save?

zekester91 · 06-09-2009, 07:33 PM

How is this a Blown Save....

F. mitchell was injured in with 2 outs in the 5th, leading 1-0, Long reliver comes in goes 4.1 and gets a Blown save... is this really one. The starter didn't go 5 so couldn't get the win...

Cryomaniac · 06-09-2009, 08:19 PM

Good question.

magnet · 06-09-2009, 08:23 PM

I bet the other team tied it up before you went on to win. Am I correct?

TribeFanInNC · 06-09-2009, 09:18 PM

No, I think that is probably an incorrect ruling. If you are in line to get the win, you can not get a save. I would assume that would mean you can't blow a save.

professor ape · 06-09-2009, 10:13 PM

I think that any time a reliever gives up a lead, it is counted as a blown save.

tysok · 06-09-2009, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by professor ape

I think that any time a reliever gives up a lead, it is counted as a blown save.

He has to blow a save. To get a save someone else has to be able to be credited with the win that he "saved". If, as in the case above, the pitcher he's relieving wouldn't qualify for a win then there isn't anything for him to have saved... therefore he can not have blown it - what he did is possibly take himself out of the chance for a decision.

Don't think they have a Blown Chance for Decision stat though.

zekester91 · 06-10-2009, 06:12 AM

Yes, the other team did tie and take a 3-2 lead before a 9th inning comeback.

I don't think this is a problem with the game, but with the way the rule is written as the rule would make it up to the scorer.

BigRed75 · 06-10-2009, 08:59 AM

I think it is a problem with the game, because it should recognise that the winning pitcher never would have gotten a save in the first place because starter didn't go the required number of innings.

This should be logged as a bug, because it's clearly incorrect and needs to be fixed.

Wrathchild · 06-10-2009, 09:36 AM

Along with this, can the pitcher who gets the loss also be given the blown save in the same game? Is that a standard MLB rule?

tysok · 06-10-2009, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrathchild

Along with this, can the pitcher who gets the loss also be given the blown save in the same game? Is that a standard MLB rule?

MLB doesn't track blown saves. But yes, those who do track it give a blown save to any reliever who gives up the tying or go ahead runs when a previous pitcher was in line for a win. And then he can go on to get accolades for having lost the game as well.

OldFatGuy · 06-10-2009, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tysok

MLB doesn't track blown saves.

Yeah, this is the issue. Blown saves, holds and save opportunities are not official MLB statistics, and thus, there is no "standard" rule for defining them. For example, I've seen two "definitions" of what defines a save opportunity from two on-line stat sites. Since these are not official rules with MLB definitions (the save IS an official stat, with it's definition in section 10) there's always going to be problems/questions. I always just accept whatever the game says in these types of circumstances.

Cryomaniac · 06-10-2009, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldFatGuy

Yeah, this is the issue. Blown saves, holds and save opportunities are not official MLB statistics, and thus, there is no "standard" rule for defining them. For example, I've seen two "definitions" of what defines a save opportunity from two on-line stat sites. Since these are not official rules with MLB definitions (the save IS an official stat, with it's definition in section 10) there's always going to be problems/questions. I always just accept whatever the game says in these types of circumstances.

This brings to mind the business about whether one player can get both a save and a blown save in one game by having 2 save chances (i.e he blows a save, gets put in RF, then when his team get the lead back he pitches again and gets the save).

zukes · 06-10-2009, 02:53 PM

I might be wrong here, but if you are the home pitcher, do you not only need 4.2 innings to qualify for the win?

satchel · 06-10-2009, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zukes

I might be wrong here, but if you are the home pitcher, do you not only need 4.2 innings to qualify for the win?

Rule 10.17(b)(2) says that a pitcher can win a game with four innings pitched, if the game only ends up being five innings long.

baseballbuzz · 06-10-2009, 05:31 PM

Here is the Save rule from official MLB scoring.

10.19 SAVES FOR RELIEF PITCHERS
A save is a statistic credited to a relief pitcher, as set forth in this Rule 10.19.
The official scorer shall credit a pitcher with a save when such pitcher meets all four of the following conditions:
(a) He is the finishing pitcher in a game won by his team;
(b) He is not the winning pitcher;
(c) He is credited with at least ⅓ of an inning pitched; and
(d) He satisfies one of the following conditions:
(1) He enters the game with a lead of no more than three runs and pitches for at least one inning;

(2) He enters the game, regardless of the count, with the potential tying run either on base, or at bat or on deck (that is, the potential tying run is either already on base or is one of the first two batters he faces); or
(3) He pitches for at least three innings.

Wrathchild · 06-13-2009, 09:31 PM

How about this situation:

The starting pitcher leaves the game with a 1 run lead.
The reliever comes in and gives up 2 runs, both being credited to the starter.

The reliever gets a blown save and the starter is awarded the loss. Is this because he was responsible for the runners that were on base?

Curtis · 06-13-2009, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrathchild

The starter is awarded the loss. Is this because he was responsible for the runners that were on base?

Yes.

jbergey22 · 06-13-2009, 10:41 PM

I am fairly certain this is a blown save because it wasnt certain that he was going to be credited the win at the time the lead was lost. It could have went to a pitcher that would have came in after him by rule. This would be a great trivia question.

jbergey22 · 06-13-2009, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

This brings to mind the business about whether one player can get both a save and a blown save in one game by having 2 save chances (i.e he blows a save, gets put in RF, then when his team get the lead back he pitches again and gets the save).

Another good question the answer is no.

tysok · 06-13-2009, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbergey22

I am fairly certain this is a blown save because it wasnt certain that he was going to be credited the win at the time the lead was lost. It could have went to a pitcher that would have came in after him by rule. This would be a great trivia question.

If he couldn't have gotten a save, he can't get a blown save.

In order to get a blown save someone else would have HAD to have been able to get the win, and in this case no one else but him COULD have gotten the win.

06-09-2009, 07:33 PM	#1
zekester91 All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,122	Blown Save? How is this a Blown Save.... F. mitchell was injured in with 2 outs in the 5th, leading 1-0, Long reliver comes in goes 4.1 and gets a Blown save... is this really one. The starter didn't go 5 so couldn't get the win... Attached Images __________________ Bobby Bowden must have a hell of a recruiting pitch, "Son if you come on down to Tallahasee, you just might be able to watch me die during practice!" The road was closed while the Hartford Police Department's bomb squad came and blew up the chicken.

06-09-2009, 08:19 PM	#2
Cryomaniac Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2007 Location: Hucknall, Notts, UK Posts: 4,902	Good question. __________________

06-10-2009, 06:12 AM	#7
zekester91 All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,122	Yes, the other team did tie and take a 3-2 lead before a 9th inning comeback. I don't think this is a problem with the game, but with the way the rule is written as the rule would make it up to the scorer. __________________ Bobby Bowden must have a hell of a recruiting pitch, "Son if you come on down to Tallahasee, you just might be able to watch me die during practice!" The road was closed while the Hartford Police Department's bomb squad came and blew up the chicken.

06-10-2009, 08:59 AM	#8
BigRed75 Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,423	I think it is a problem with the game, because it should recognise that the winning pitcher never would have gotten a save in the first place because starter didn't go the required number of innings. This should be logged as a bug, because it's clearly incorrect and needs to be fixed. __________________ Mainline team SPTT team Was not a Snag fan...until I saw the fallout once he was gone and realized what a good job he was actually doing. - Ty Cobb

06-09-2009, 08:23 PM	#3
magnet Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 5,029	I bet the other team tied it up before you went on to win. Am I correct?

06-09-2009, 09:18 PM	#4
TribeFanInNC Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,019	No, I think that is probably an incorrect ruling. If you are in line to get the win, you can not get a save. I would assume that would mean you can't blow a save.

06-09-2009, 10:13 PM	#5
professor ape All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: The belly of the beast Posts: 1,498	I think that any time a reliever gives up a lead, it is counted as a blown save.

06-10-2009, 09:36 AM	#9
Wrathchild Banned Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 421 Infractions: 0/3 (3)	Along with this, can the pitcher who gets the loss also be given the blown save in the same game? Is that a standard MLB rule?

06-10-2009, 02:53 PM	#13
zukes All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: London, Ont. Canada Posts: 1,106	I might be wrong here, but if you are the home pitcher, do you not only need 4.2 innings to qualify for the win?

06-10-2009, 05:31 PM	#15
baseballbuzz Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 27	Here is the Save rule from official MLB scoring. 10.19 SAVES FOR RELIEF PITCHERS A save is a statistic credited to a relief pitcher, as set forth in this Rule 10.19. The official scorer shall credit a pitcher with a save when such pitcher meets all four of the following conditions: (a) He is the finishing pitcher in a game won by his team; (b) He is not the winning pitcher; (c) He is credited with at least ⅓ of an inning pitched; and (d) He satisfies one of the following conditions: (1) He enters the game with a lead of no more than three runs and pitches for at least one inning; (2) He enters the game, regardless of the count, with the potential tying run either on base, or at bat or on deck (that is, the potential tying run is either already on base or is one of the first two batters he faces); or (3) He pitches for at least three innings.

06-13-2009, 09:31 PM	#16
Wrathchild Banned Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 421 Infractions: 0/3 (3)	How about this situation: The starting pitcher leaves the game with a 1 run lead. The reliever comes in and gives up 2 runs, both being credited to the starter. The reliever gets a blown save and the starter is awarded the loss. Is this because he was responsible for the runners that were on base?

06-13-2009, 10:41 PM	#18
jbergey22 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,481	I am fairly certain this is a blown save because it wasnt certain that he was going to be credited the win at the time the lead was lost. It could have went to a pitcher that would have came in after him by rule. This would be a great trivia question.