Minor-league managing for an insane GM?

the nightfly · 04-15-2009, 06:23 PM

Although I've had OOTP for a number of years, I have never tried playing it in full career mode until now. So, I figure I should "start at the bottom," and take a job managing the rookie-league Helena Brewers.

However, at this moment, I'm wondering if Milwaukee's GM is a closet sadist trying to drive me crazy, or a team of monkeys making personnel decisions by throwing darts.

It's a regular event for my GM to make wholesale changes to my roster every two or three days, sometimes more. I'm not talking about a player here or there; I'm talking about ten-fifteen players at a shot. And, while I could understand it if "he" were simply calling people up to a higher level, so far, all "he" has done has been to shuffle players between a couple of rookie-league teams in different divisions, or else release players outright (including some of my best performers).

Today took the cake. All five members of my starting rotation were sent elsewhere and replaced by new starters with nothing but 1s and 2s in their ratings. Several middle relievers also left, including my top performer, but at least they were replaced with warm bodies. My closer was also sent to another rookie-league affiliate, and not replaced. I also lost every member of my starting lineup except my catcher, second baseman, and center fielder. In return, I found myself with no right-fielder whatsoever; only one left fielder and two center fielders (one of whom is "exhausted"). Also, no backup for my first baseman. On the bright side, I do have catchers...eight of them.

As it stands right now, I can sim a couple of days, then I get the dreaded memo from the GM, and have to go back and rebuild my assignments and lineups (in this case, apparently, mostly from backup catchers) virtually from scratch, only to go through the same process again and again.

Is this normal for OOTP minor-league managing (and, if so, how can anyone say this game has a playable career mode?), or is there some setting I'm missing, or some bug that can be worked around? FWIW, I'm using the latest patch of OOTP9. Do I have any recourse except to soldier on (and consider requesting that the team name be changed to the Helena Catchers-In-The-Rye) or ditch OOTP and start looking at another sim? If this is a known problem, is there any indication OOTP10 will fix it?

satchel · 04-15-2009, 06:31 PM

I commend your attitude, in light of this situation. Unfortunately, the things you describe are normal behavior for the game.

Managing a minor-league team, and working your way up, should be fun, and it's something that appeals to me, too. I can see why you'd want to do it. Yet it takes an iron will to deal with all the irrational events which take place, and having a fun experience managing a minor league team is considered to be impossible by a big segment of the community.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that you should give it up (although many others here will freely say so), but doing it is hoeing a rock-hard row.

satchel · 04-15-2009, 06:35 PM

You certainly won't find a better overall sim, and running a major-league club, or a whole organization, is great fun. I wouldn't recommend that you give up the game. And version 10 might fix a lot of these irregularities.

But if your heart is set on managing a minor-league club, and working your way up, it doesn't work right. The game was designed for a player to be able to do this, but too many things were overlooked, and it wasn't implemented correctly.

All that being said, it can be done. It's just frustrating, and involves a lot of hard work.

satchel · 04-15-2009, 06:37 PM

Here's another recent discussion on this topic. One issue in the thread was never resolved, I intend to look into it tonight.

lt2cents · 04-15-2009, 07:01 PM

The AI handling of minor leagues roster moves has been a disaster zone and makes trying to play as you are- which should be a fun challenge- nothing but frustrating. There have been mod requests directly to the point- for a couple iterations of the game- but whether any changes will show up in this next version -- who knows.

The only thing known is that minor teams will gain a disabled list- which might help but I suspect only slightly-- I think the problem lies deeper in a very superficially programmed AI that has not been revisited since the first version of the game and is in serious need and overdue for refinement.

It is particularly bad that OOTP's own blurbs suggest doing just what you are doing- trying minor league managing-- only to have it be so disappointing in practice.

I think there may be quite a few players who would like to see this fixed-- more than the OOTP folks have been willing to credit because they just give up and go to playing the game in other ways.

(A related question is setting up OOTP to give a better experience as far as manager results/job offers from higher levels/etc. - which would follow after the AI minor league GM is fixed. And this has also been in the mod requests.)

the nightfly · 04-15-2009, 07:14 PM

Thanks for all your replies. It's good to know I'm not alone.

FWIW, before the Milwaukee GM pulled almost my entire team out from under me, we were at 10-4 and in first place. Since then, we've gone 5-13 and dropped out of contention. Need I observe that the GM has not made a single personnel move throughout that entire time? So, it looks like I'm stuck with what I've got so far. Of course, it is still "expected" that I'll finish over .500...

You're right -- this game needs some real help at the minor-league level. The problem is, if you pretty much admit that level is unplayable, and that the only way to go is to start out as an MLB GM, you've reduced the game to a scope that isn't all that different from lots of other good sims, like Diamond Mind, Action! PC, and so on. It seems to me that, if OOTP wants to be able to push its strong point of having the most depth in terms of career simulation, it needs to make sure all that depth is functional. Anyway, thanks for letting me rant.

04-15-2009, 06:23 PM	#1
the nightfly Bat Boy Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 7	Minor-league managing for an insane GM? Although I've had OOTP for a number of years, I have never tried playing it in full career mode until now. So, I figure I should "start at the bottom," and take a job managing the rookie-league Helena Brewers. However, at this moment, I'm wondering if Milwaukee's GM is a closet sadist trying to drive me crazy, or a team of monkeys making personnel decisions by throwing darts. It's a regular event for my GM to make wholesale changes to my roster every two or three days, sometimes more. I'm not talking about a player here or there; I'm talking about ten-fifteen players at a shot. And, while I could understand it if "he" were simply calling people up to a higher level, so far, all "he" has done has been to shuffle players between a couple of rookie-league teams in different divisions, or else release players outright (including some of my best performers). Today took the cake. All five members of my starting rotation were sent elsewhere and replaced by new starters with nothing but 1s and 2s in their ratings. Several middle relievers also left, including my top performer, but at least they were replaced with warm bodies. My closer was also sent to another rookie-league affiliate, and not replaced. I also lost every member of my starting lineup except my catcher, second baseman, and center fielder. In return, I found myself with no right-fielder whatsoever; only one left fielder and two center fielders (one of whom is "exhausted"). Also, no backup for my first baseman. On the bright side, I do have catchers...eight of them. As it stands right now, I can sim a couple of days, then I get the dreaded memo from the GM, and have to go back and rebuild my assignments and lineups (in this case, apparently, mostly from backup catchers) virtually from scratch, only to go through the same process again and again. Is this normal for OOTP minor-league managing (and, if so, how can anyone say this game has a playable career mode?), or is there some setting I'm missing, or some bug that can be worked around? FWIW, I'm using the latest patch of OOTP9. Do I have any recourse except to soldier on (and consider requesting that the team name be changed to the Helena Catchers-In-The-Rye) or ditch OOTP and start looking at another sim? If this is a known problem, is there any indication OOTP10 will fix it?

04-15-2009, 06:31 PM	#2
satchel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Ft Smith Ark. USA Posts: 2,681	I commend your attitude, in light of this situation. Unfortunately, the things you describe are normal behavior for the game. Managing a minor-league team, and working your way up, should be fun, and it's something that appeals to me, too. I can see why you'd want to do it. Yet it takes an iron will to deal with all the irrational events which take place, and having a fun experience managing a minor league team is considered to be impossible by a big segment of the community. I wouldn't go so far as to say that you should give it up (although many others here will freely say so), but doing it is hoeing a rock-hard row. __________________ JL Commish NPBL Rhode Island Reds ’33 ’34 ’35 TCBA San Francisco Railbornes ’74 ’76 ’77 ’78 FL New Orleans Black Sox ’56 ’57 ’58 ’59

04-15-2009, 06:35 PM	#3
satchel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Ft Smith Ark. USA Posts: 2,681	You certainly won't find a better overall sim, and running a major-league club, or a whole organization, is great fun. I wouldn't recommend that you give up the game. And version 10 might fix a lot of these irregularities. But if your heart is set on managing a minor-league club, and working your way up, it doesn't work right. The game was designed for a player to be able to do this, but too many things were overlooked, and it wasn't implemented correctly. All that being said, it can be done. It's just frustrating, and involves a lot of hard work.

04-15-2009, 06:37 PM	#4
satchel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Ft Smith Ark. USA Posts: 2,681	Here's another recent discussion on this topic. One issue in the thread was never resolved, I intend to look into it tonight.

04-15-2009, 07:01 PM	#5
lt2cents Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 212	The AI handling of minor leagues roster moves has been a disaster zone and makes trying to play as you are- which should be a fun challenge- nothing but frustrating. There have been mod requests directly to the point- for a couple iterations of the game- but whether any changes will show up in this next version -- who knows. The only thing known is that minor teams will gain a disabled list- which might help but I suspect only slightly-- I think the problem lies deeper in a very superficially programmed AI that has not been revisited since the first version of the game and is in serious need and overdue for refinement. It is particularly bad that OOTP's own blurbs suggest doing just what you are doing- trying minor league managing-- only to have it be so disappointing in practice. I think there may be quite a few players who would like to see this fixed-- more than the OOTP folks have been willing to credit because they just give up and go to playing the game in other ways. (A related question is setting up OOTP to give a better experience as far as manager results/job offers from higher levels/etc. - which would follow after the AI minor league GM is fixed. And this has also been in the mod requests.)

04-15-2009, 07:14 PM	#6
the nightfly Bat Boy Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 7	Thanks for all your replies. It's good to know I'm not alone. FWIW, before the Milwaukee GM pulled almost my entire team out from under me, we were at 10-4 and in first place. Since then, we've gone 5-13 and dropped out of contention. Need I observe that the GM has not made a single personnel move throughout that entire time? So, it looks like I'm stuck with what I've got so far. Of course, it is still "expected" that I'll finish over .500... You're right -- this game needs some real help at the minor-league level. The problem is, if you pretty much admit that level is unplayable, and that the only way to go is to start out as an MLB GM, you've reduced the game to a scope that isn't all that different from lots of other good sims, like Diamond Mind, Action! PC, and so on. It seems to me that, if OOTP wants to be able to push its strong point of having the most depth in terms of career simulation, it needs to make sure all that depth is functional. Anyway, thanks for letting me rant.