Out of Position

JackRules1 · 04-14-2009, 01:42 PM

I've been playing a few months but I'm not sure what to make of this. I have a third baseman and a catcher on my roster, and the third baseman only has a rating at 1st base (9 out of 100) while the catcher is rated ok at 1st base (44 out of 100), but only 7 out of 100 at catcher. Should I assume the 3B is only useful as a DH, and the catcher shouldn't be allowed to catch? The 3B I can understand as he is 34 and probably has lost his ability to play defense, but the "catcher" is only 24 and should be considered a 1B. Is this typical, and am I right to keep these two away from their listed positions?

Kelric · 04-14-2009, 02:42 PM

Knowing nothing about their offensive skills, I'd keep the third baseman at DH if you have no better option. The catcher would be my first baseman. Forget what the game lists them as, play them by their defensive ratings.

RchW · 04-14-2009, 03:41 PM

The frequency at which the AI populates teams with players that are out of position or have no ratings at the position chosen by the AI bothers me. The negative effect on play results from this is probably why league totals can vary so much from year to year.

SteveP · 04-14-2009, 07:28 PM

I assume what you are talking about is the experience rating, not the individual skill ratings. My observation is that the AI will give significant weight to the skill ratings in deciding about what positions to assign players, if the experience ratings aren't there (and I've also seen "missing" experience ratings, where players clearly had spent significant time playing a position -- so that can happen). So you might want to investigate the whole picture to make sure you are seeing what the AI is seeing. It may be that the AI's best guess, while not ideal, is workable until you can make a trade, or do some other roster adjustment.

Where the AI gets into big trouble more often is at the end of games, when it has screwed up pinch hitting and pinch running, and has to assign positions to players who don't have either the experience or the proper skill ratings (OFs playing C, for example). Terribly annoying, but perhaps to be improved in OOTP10.

RchW · 04-14-2009, 08:38 PM

No not really. It is common to see the AI take a highly skilled (ratings and experience) SS who has experience at 1B and play him there. It then puts a declining or simply a brutal fielding player with no range no arm and no business being anywhere near SS at SS. The same problem happens at 2B but less often.

I know this is anecdotal but I had a HoF caliber 1B (batting!) who had minimal ratings at 2B 3B and SS who spent his declining years (6 of 20) on another team playing SS while SS prospects withered and died.

The true SS/2B even though he may be able to play 1st shouldn't have ratings so high at 1B to affect the AI decision. I manually edit such players to reduce SS/2B use as 1B as it skews play results and therefore league totals significantly.

The no fielding skills player, if he must play, should play 1B. In most situations that is where you put your worst defensive player. LF could be argued for, but SS and 2B never IMO.

The AI appears to have a flawed position evaluation algorithm. Combine that with flawed player creation that produces way too many MI with huge 1B numbers and you have an obvious problem.

JackRules1 · 04-17-2009, 09:08 AM

Thanks guys. I traded off the 34 year old and am using the C/1B as a DH, so all is well in my world. Strange, I look at his career fielding stats and it only goes back 2 years, but his career hitting stats go back 4 years. He has played more first base than catcher as far as I can tell. Anyway, thanks again.

04-14-2009, 01:42 PM	#1
JackRules1 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Central Florida Posts: 245	Out of Position I've been playing a few months but I'm not sure what to make of this. I have a third baseman and a catcher on my roster, and the third baseman only has a rating at 1st base (9 out of 100) while the catcher is rated ok at 1st base (44 out of 100), but only 7 out of 100 at catcher. Should I assume the 3B is only useful as a DH, and the catcher shouldn't be allowed to catch? The 3B I can understand as he is 34 and probably has lost his ability to play defense, but the "catcher" is only 24 and should be considered a 1B. Is this typical, and am I right to keep these two away from their listed positions?

04-14-2009, 03:41 PM	#3
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	The frequency at which the AI populates teams with players that are out of position or have no ratings at the position chosen by the AI bothers me. The negative effect on play results from this is probably why league totals can vary so much from year to year. __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

04-14-2009, 08:38 PM	#5
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	No not really. It is common to see the AI take a highly skilled (ratings and experience) SS who has experience at 1B and play him there. It then puts a declining or simply a brutal fielding player with no range no arm and no business being anywhere near SS at SS. The same problem happens at 2B but less often. I know this is anecdotal but I had a HoF caliber 1B (batting!) who had minimal ratings at 2B 3B and SS who spent his declining years (6 of 20) on another team playing SS while SS prospects withered and died. The true SS/2B even though he may be able to play 1st shouldn't have ratings so high at 1B to affect the AI decision. I manually edit such players to reduce SS/2B use as 1B as it skews play results and therefore league totals significantly. The no fielding skills player, if he must play, should play 1B. In most situations that is where you put your worst defensive player. LF could be argued for, but SS and 2B never IMO. The AI appears to have a flawed position evaluation algorithm. Combine that with flawed player creation that produces way too many MI with huge 1B numbers and you have an obvious problem. __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

04-14-2009, 02:42 PM	#2
Kelric Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Greater Boston Area Posts: 3,992	Knowing nothing about their offensive skills, I'd keep the third baseman at DH if you have no better option. The catcher would be my first baseman. Forget what the game lists them as, play them by their defensive ratings.

04-14-2009, 07:28 PM	#4
SteveP Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 3,109	I assume what you are talking about is the experience rating, not the individual skill ratings. My observation is that the AI will give significant weight to the skill ratings in deciding about what positions to assign players, if the experience ratings aren't there (and I've also seen "missing" experience ratings, where players clearly had spent significant time playing a position -- so that can happen). So you might want to investigate the whole picture to make sure you are seeing what the AI is seeing. It may be that the AI's best guess, while not ideal, is workable until you can make a trade, or do some other roster adjustment. Where the AI gets into big trouble more often is at the end of games, when it has screwed up pinch hitting and pinch running, and has to assign positions to players who don't have either the experience or the proper skill ratings (OFs playing C, for example). Terribly annoying, but perhaps to be improved in OOTP10.

04-17-2009, 09:08 AM	#6
JackRules1 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Central Florida Posts: 245	Thanks guys. I traded off the 34 year old and am using the C/1B as a DH, so all is well in my world. Strange, I look at his career fielding stats and it only goes back 2 years, but his career hitting stats go back 4 years. He has played more first base than catcher as far as I can tell. Anyway, thanks again.