International Play

Joe Canadian · 12-05-2002, 06:44 PM

Out of the four major sports(North America), hockey is the one where international play is the most important. This said, I believe that any sim produced should include the four major international tournaments. This includes:

Olympics - Probably the biggest event, it happens every four years usually in Febuary.

World Championships - Occurs around April, during the first few rounds of the NHL Playoffs.

World Junior Championships - Open to the best prospects who are under 20. Opens on Boxing Day of each year, and continues thru the New Year. (It's an annual tradition in Canada to sit down on Boxing Day to watch Canada's opening game in the World Junior's)

Canada/World Cup of Hockey - This tournament was used in replace of the Olympics before NHL players were allowed to play in them. Now it occurs, it seems, whenever the IIHF decides there should be one. The last three have occured in 1987, 1991, and 1996. The next one will occur in late August/early September 2004.

The simming of these tournaments would obviously occur in the "background," however they would add immence depth to the game. Any thoughts?

chrisj · 12-16-2002, 02:51 PM

They'd be nice to have in the game. Of course, if you want to stick with the whole "everything is customizable (?)" theme of 400 studios, then they should be an option. If you create your own IHL, or whatever, then International Play likely isn't a big factor to your league .

Joe Canadian · 12-16-2002, 06:03 PM

While having the option to turn it on or off would be nice, I really do think that the International Play feature is a must for PPH.

Dvdmanny · 12-23-2002, 03:52 AM

I too would love to see this feature added into the game. When playing a career on my PV version of NHL 2002 I would stop at the appropriate times and make my own versions of the Olympics, World Championships and such and loved doing it. International play is an important part of hockey and I would love to see it in this game.

Sim Rat · 01-17-2003, 11:46 PM

More importantly, I think any hockey sim should now allow people to coach in foreign leagues. The Elitserien in Sweden, the SM-Liiga in Finland, the Russian Super League, and the elite leagues in the Czech Republic and Slovakia should be included. These leagues are now major pipelines of NHL talent, and it is easy to research their respective promotion/relegation systems, franchises, etc.

I'd be willing to help with this if necessary. If you want your game to be a big seller with European customers, this is the way to go.

Joe Canadian · 01-18-2003, 02:31 PM

While I think foreign leagues are a good thing to have run in the background... I don't believe it is worth including any playable leagues except the NHL. Sure these leagues provide talent, as does the US College system and CHL, however they aren't on par with the NHL and have no where near the popularity.

Its been my impression that PPH will be an NHL sim, not a world hockey sim as EHM:FE is attempting to be. While I do having the other leagues is a plus, I don't think its that necessary.

chrisj · 01-18-2003, 05:30 PM

I think PPH would be better off heading in the "world sim" direction. Or atleast make it possible to run international/junior leagues by way of settings.

I really think the NHL is losing much of its luster with fans... it's in worse financial shape that baseball, with tickets that cost 25 times more.

Joe Canadian · 01-19-2003, 05:29 PM

I disagree with you on the NHL losing its luster with fans... It is probably the fastest growing sport in North America. Just because two teams filed for bankruptcy, you can't say its in worse shape than baseball.

The Senators filing had nothing to do with fan interest(althoug it could be higher), but it had everything to do with bad financial moves by the club itself.

The Sabres filing was a result of illegal financial moves by the owner, and not the club.

Ticket pricing can't be compared to baseball (IMO)... it s alot easier to collect money if your stadium can hold 50,000 fans. A hockey stadium can hold, on avg., 20,000 fans. That is the reason why the ticket prices are higher.

Dvdmanny · 01-21-2003, 05:15 AM

plus baseball teams have 82 home games compared to 41 for NHL teams. Also with baseball being a slower game than hockey it gives the teams more sponsor time on TV.

chrisj · 01-21-2003, 10:16 AM

Whew... just noticed there was a reply...

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe Canadian
I disagree with you on the NHL losing its luster with fans... It is probably the fastest growing sport in North America. Just because two teams filed for bankruptcy, you can't say its in worse shape than baseball.

The Senators filing had nothing to do with fan interest(althoug it could be higher), but it had everything to do with bad financial moves by the club itself.

The Sabres filing was a result of illegal financial moves by the owner, and not the club.

Ticket pricing can't be compared to baseball (IMO)... it s alot easier to collect money if your stadium can hold 50,000 fans. A hockey stadium can hold, on avg., 20,000 fans. That is the reason why the ticket prices are higher.

Well, how many baseball teams have been forced to file for bankruptcy?

But hockey also has other financial problems - the gaps between the rich teams and the poor teams is horrible. There are very few mid-level clubs - you're either a have (Rangers, Avalanche, etc) or have-not (Thrashers, Flames, etc) team.

I was reading a recent Globe & Mail article which made a very good point regarding the level of difference between the have and have not teams. Consider this, the Colorado Avalanche have four players — Joe Sakic, Patrick Roy, Rob Blake and Peter Forsberg — who earn almost $10-million (U.S.) more than the entire Ottawa Senators roster. 10 freaking million *more* than the entire roster!

And while I realize what you're saying about how fewer people in the arena mean that need to charge more... but people just can't afford to shell out $100 for a ticket to a game. Hockey is something that is meant to be seen live... and when you price yourself out of your market, your fans begin to lose interest.

BTW, one interesting note about NHL attendance. While the NHL claims that attendance is rising, numbers released by the recent bankruptcy of the Senators, and the bankruptcy of the Penguins several years ago shows that the opposite is true - and in fact the league average attendance is around 1,500 fans less per game than the league claims.

Now, I need to go get my tickets for the Halifax Mooseheads game next week... who can beat CHL hockey? Great future NHL talent, and tickets priced for everyone ($10 a seat).

chrisj · 01-21-2003, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dvdmanny
plus baseball teams have 82 home games compared to 41 for NHL teams. Also with baseball being a slower game than hockey it gives the teams more sponsor time on TV.

The amount of ad time on TV is roughly the same for hockey and baseball. It has nothing to do with the revenue of a team anyways, as ad time goes to the TV networks, not the teams.

Joe Canadian · 01-21-2003, 03:31 PM

I'm not saying that the NHL doesn't have problems... it is beginning to go down the road that baseball has already. But the reason for those bankruptcy filings had very little to do with the team itself. The reason for them was bad financial decisions made by the owner, or when the teams were initally set up.

The Senators are proof that a low-budget team can start a quality line-up. The reason for their financial difficulties are the bad decisions made in setting up the franchise.

MLB have many players making upwards of $20 million, while it is rear to have an NHL team pay a player higher than $11-$12 million. The fact is the NHL does not have the finacial problems MLB does, BUT.... it is beginning to head down that road.

Also, it would be interesting if you, chrisj, would further explain these attendance discripincies.... Both the Senators and Penguins have always had problems with filling their respective buildings, but I'm not sure that with the info of two teams you can say the NHL is lying about the avg. attendance of the whole league. If you have information otherwise, please tell me so I can read up on it (I'm always looking to learn more

).

Somthing else to keep in mind... sure their are big gaps in payroll in the NHL. But look at baseball, it is far worse... You've got the Yankees & Diamondbacks having payrolls of $90 million, while teams like Tampa & Montreal have far less.

chrisj · 01-21-2003, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Also, it would be interesting if you, chrisj, would further explain these attendance discripincies.... Both the Senators and Penguins have always had problems with filling their respective buildings, but I'm not sure that with the info of two teams you can say the NHL is lying about the avg. attendance of the whole league. If you have information otherwise, please tell me so I can read up on it (I'm always looking to learn more

).

The article I learned about this is <A HREF=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/sports/RTGAM/20030118/wxhosi0118/Sports/sportsBN/breakingnews-sports>located here</A>. It wasn't talking about the attendance of the teams, but the attendance figures that the league releases as the overall league average (the NHL claims 16,759 last season, while Ottawa listed it as being 15,300).

Quote:

Somthing else to keep in mind... sure their are big gaps in payroll in the NHL. But look at baseball, it is far worse... You've got the Yankees & Diamondbacks having payrolls of $90 million, while teams like Tampa & Montreal have far less.

Heh... true. The extremes are worse in baseball (Yankees, Red Sox over $100 million, Expos, Devil Rays at under $40 million). But there is more middle ground in baseball (50 to 85 million) than there is in the NHL.

Joe Canadian · 01-21-2003, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Heh... true. The extremes are worse in baseball (Yankees, Red Sox over $100 million, Expos, Devil Rays at under $40 million). But there is more middle ground in baseball (50 to 85 million) than there is in the NHL.

Not really....

Just take a look at the following website:

http://schoolmaster.infoplease.com/ipsa/A0779885.html

Shows salaries from 2001-02 season in all major sports... it shows my point.

Wildcard88 · 02-02-2003, 01:28 PM

Hockey has a serious problem in that it overpays its middle of the road players. Also, there is a judging problem that always come up in arbitration cases because of the three line system. Players use the argument that they are a #1 line type guy so they should make #1 type guy money when in reality, they are only #1 type guy on a lousy team. Like in baseball, too many GM's throw money out there to fix their problems and only half of them get it right. If you'll notice, 3 of the last 4 teams to win the Stanley cup have been in the top 5 in payroll while 3 of the last 4 losers have been in the bottom half or so (don't remember exact numbers). Even though some teams have been shown to fail in spite of large payrolls (Rangers anyone?), the fact that some teams do means that hockey is heading into the same direction as baseball.

Hockey also has the distinct problem in that it grew like wildfire without thinking of the distinct consequences. 9 teams since 1990 and most of them are pretty lousy. Just because you grew does not mean the rest of the nation is going to start watching your games. I love hockey but something is going to have to give. Everyone involved from owners to players are going to have to realize that as the fourth (some might say fifth) major sport in North America, the financial model is just not going to hold up.

Joe Canadian · 02-04-2003, 03:00 PM

I agree something has to be done about the finacial practises that are going on in the NHL. Hopefully something will be done in 2004 to stop this from continuing down the road that baseball has already taken. From what the commisioner has said in the past, I think he is commited to working out a solution... hopefully his public comments are truly what his is planning to do, and not just "lip-service" for the fans and media.

And hopefully the players realize the problem as well.

12-16-2002, 02:51 PM	#2
chrisj All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Edmonton, Alberta (but still wishing I was in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada) Posts: 834	They'd be nice to have in the game. Of course, if you want to stick with the whole "everything is customizable (?)" theme of 400 studios, then they should be an option. If you create your own IHL, or whatever, then International Play likely isn't a big factor to your league . __________________ Canadian Baseball League -- Commissioner -- Calgary GM

12-16-2002, 06:03 PM	#3
Joe Canadian All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 1,296	While having the option to turn it on or off would be nice, I really do think that the International Play feature is a must for PPH. __________________ My Twitter \| My Blog \| My Music Fan of the Blue Jays, Maple Leafs, IceCaps, Lakers, and Broncos.

01-18-2003, 02:31 PM	#6
Joe Canadian All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 1,296	While I think foreign leagues are a good thing to have run in the background... I don't believe it is worth including any playable leagues except the NHL. Sure these leagues provide talent, as does the US College system and CHL, however they aren't on par with the NHL and have no where near the popularity. Its been my impression that PPH will be an NHL sim, not a world hockey sim as EHM:FE is attempting to be. While I do having the other leagues is a plus, I don't think its that necessary. __________________ My Twitter \| My Blog \| My Music Fan of the Blue Jays, Maple Leafs, IceCaps, Lakers, and Broncos.

01-18-2003, 05:30 PM	#7
chrisj All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Edmonton, Alberta (but still wishing I was in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada) Posts: 834	I think PPH would be better off heading in the "world sim" direction. Or atleast make it possible to run international/junior leagues by way of settings. I really think the NHL is losing much of its luster with fans... it's in worse financial shape that baseball, with tickets that cost 25 times more. __________________ Canadian Baseball League -- Commissioner -- Calgary GM

01-19-2003, 05:29 PM	#8
Joe Canadian All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 1,296	I disagree with you on the NHL losing its luster with fans... It is probably the fastest growing sport in North America. Just because two teams filed for bankruptcy, you can't say its in worse shape than baseball. The Senators filing had nothing to do with fan interest(althoug it could be higher), but it had everything to do with bad financial moves by the club itself. The Sabres filing was a result of illegal financial moves by the owner, and not the club. Ticket pricing can't be compared to baseball (IMO)... it s alot easier to collect money if your stadium can hold 50,000 fans. A hockey stadium can hold, on avg., 20,000 fans. That is the reason why the ticket prices are higher. __________________ My Twitter \| My Blog \| My Music Fan of the Blue Jays, Maple Leafs, IceCaps, Lakers, and Broncos.

12-05-2002, 06:44 PM	#1
Joe Canadian All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 1,296	International Play Out of the four major sports(North America), hockey is the one where international play is the most important. This said, I believe that any sim produced should include the four major international tournaments. This includes: Olympics - Probably the biggest event, it happens every four years usually in Febuary. World Championships - Occurs around April, during the first few rounds of the NHL Playoffs. World Junior Championships - Open to the best prospects who are under 20. Opens on Boxing Day of each year, and continues thru the New Year. (It's an annual tradition in Canada to sit down on Boxing Day to watch Canada's opening game in the World Junior's) Canada/World Cup of Hockey - This tournament was used in replace of the Olympics before NHL players were allowed to play in them. Now it occurs, it seems, whenever the IIHF decides there should be one. The last three have occured in 1987, 1991, and 1996. The next one will occur in late August/early September 2004. The simming of these tournaments would obviously occur in the "background," however they would add immence depth to the game. Any thoughts? __________________ My Twitter \| My Blog \| My Music Fan of the Blue Jays, Maple Leafs, IceCaps, Lakers, and Broncos.

12-23-2002, 03:52 AM	#4
Dvdmanny Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 77	I too would love to see this feature added into the game. When playing a career on my PV version of NHL 2002 I would stop at the appropriate times and make my own versions of the Olympics, World Championships and such and loved doing it. International play is an important part of hockey and I would love to see it in this game.

01-17-2003, 11:46 PM	#5
Sim Rat Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 73	More importantly, I think any hockey sim should now allow people to coach in foreign leagues. The Elitserien in Sweden, the SM-Liiga in Finland, the Russian Super League, and the elite leagues in the Czech Republic and Slovakia should be included. These leagues are now major pipelines of NHL talent, and it is easy to research their respective promotion/relegation systems, franchises, etc. I'd be willing to help with this if necessary. If you want your game to be a big seller with European customers, this is the way to go.

01-21-2003, 05:15 AM	#9
Dvdmanny Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 77	plus baseball teams have 82 home games compared to 41 for NHL teams. Also with baseball being a slower game than hockey it gives the teams more sponsor time on TV.

01-21-2003, 03:31 PM	#12
Joe Canadian All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 1,296	I'm not saying that the NHL doesn't have problems... it is beginning to go down the road that baseball has already. But the reason for those bankruptcy filings had very little to do with the team itself. The reason for them was bad financial decisions made by the owner, or when the teams were initally set up. The Senators are proof that a low-budget team can start a quality line-up. The reason for their financial difficulties are the bad decisions made in setting up the franchise. MLB have many players making upwards of $20 million, while it is rear to have an NHL team pay a player higher than $11-$12 million. The fact is the NHL does not have the finacial problems MLB does, BUT.... it is beginning to head down that road. Also, it would be interesting if you, chrisj, would further explain these attendance discripincies.... Both the Senators and Penguins have always had problems with filling their respective buildings, but I'm not sure that with the info of two teams you can say the NHL is lying about the avg. attendance of the whole league. If you have information otherwise, please tell me so I can read up on it (I'm always looking to learn more ). Somthing else to keep in mind... sure their are big gaps in payroll in the NHL. But look at baseball, it is far worse... You've got the Yankees & Diamondbacks having payrolls of $90 million, while teams like Tampa & Montreal have far less. __________________ My Twitter \| My Blog \| My Music Fan of the Blue Jays, Maple Leafs, IceCaps, Lakers, and Broncos.

02-02-2003, 01:28 PM	#15
Wildcard88 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 79	Hockey has a serious problem in that it overpays its middle of the road players. Also, there is a judging problem that always come up in arbitration cases because of the three line system. Players use the argument that they are a #1 line type guy so they should make #1 type guy money when in reality, they are only #1 type guy on a lousy team. Like in baseball, too many GM's throw money out there to fix their problems and only half of them get it right. If you'll notice, 3 of the last 4 teams to win the Stanley cup have been in the top 5 in payroll while 3 of the last 4 losers have been in the bottom half or so (don't remember exact numbers). Even though some teams have been shown to fail in spite of large payrolls (Rangers anyone?), the fact that some teams do means that hockey is heading into the same direction as baseball. Hockey also has the distinct problem in that it grew like wildfire without thinking of the distinct consequences. 9 teams since 1990 and most of them are pretty lousy. Just because you grew does not mean the rest of the nation is going to start watching your games. I love hockey but something is going to have to give. Everyone involved from owners to players are going to have to realize that as the fourth (some might say fifth) major sport in North America, the financial model is just not going to hold up. __________________ Montreal Blazers GM 1973 FL Atlantic Division Champion MBBA

02-04-2003, 03:00 PM	#16
Joe Canadian All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 1,296	I agree something has to be done about the finacial practises that are going on in the NHL. Hopefully something will be done in 2004 to stop this from continuing down the road that baseball has already taken. From what the commisioner has said in the past, I think he is commited to working out a solution... hopefully his public comments are truly what his is planning to do, and not just "lip-service" for the fans and media. And hopefully the players realize the problem as well. __________________ My Twitter \| My Blog \| My Music Fan of the Blue Jays, Maple Leafs, IceCaps, Lakers, and Broncos.