The 160 lb. Welterweight Title Fight

Jersey-Jim · 01-09-2009, 08:16 PM

Yesterday I was listening to an interview with Shane Mosley and his trainer (2 separate intervews you can listen to at thering-online.com). Both Mosley and Richardson made mention of the fact that Margarito would probably weight between 160 and 165 by fight night.

This is totally ridiculous. I like the old-school way where the fighter weighed in the morning of the fight and that was the official weight and weigh-in for the match.

You can see why guys like Zab Judah and Miguel Cotto, who are smaller Welterweights, would have so many problems against a bigger fighter like Margarito, who will step into the ring as a Super Middleweight to defend his title!

It's not Margarito's fault, of course. He doesn't make the rules, he's just making the most of whatever advantages he has. Mosley seems to think this will work in his advantage, but I doubt it.

Mosley can beat Margarito by outboxing him and moving away while scoring points. But to be honest, I wouldn't mind seeing Margarito stop him early rather than see him go the DeLaHoya rout and take a beating for 12 rounds.

IceTea · 01-09-2009, 09:00 PM

I also agree that boxers should weight in the day of the bout. It most likely doesn't matter for heavyweights.

Jersey-Jim · 01-10-2009, 01:24 AM

The whole idea of creating Jr. divisions to begin with was so guys that couldn't make (let's say 147lbs) but weren't big enough to complete at Middleweight (160 lbs), there was the perfect catch weight of 154 lbs and the Jr. Middleweight division was born.

Now, if you have a guy defending a 147 lb title and doing so at 160-165, it defeats the purpose. You may as well go back to 8 or 9 weight divisions.

Arturo Gatti was so much bigger than Joey Gamache when they fought at Welterweight several years back, I don't think he ever recovered 100% from the beating he took that night.

It's one think if a smaller guy wants to step up in a weight class and take on a larger opponent. That's his choice. But Shane Mosley (just as an example) has no choice at all when he steps into the ring against Antonio Margarito.

It's even more ridiculous when you consider the weight classifications/limits under a microscope. The Welterweight LIMIT, is 147 pounds. Not 148, 149 or even 150. They have such exacting numbers when the classify the definition of these weight classes, and yet, a Middleweight Champion steps into the ring the night of the fight weighed 170 lbs to defend his 160 lb title?

I just want to go on record as saying - in my TB universe, everyone makes weight the morning of the fight.

IceTea · 01-10-2009, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jersey-Jim

The whole idea of creating Jr. divisions to begin with was so guys that couldn't make (let's say 147lbs) but weren't big enough to complete at Middleweight (160 lbs), there was the perfect catch weight of 154 lbs and the Jr. Middleweight division was born.

Now, if you have a guy defending a 147 lb title and doing so at 160-165, it defeats the purpose. You may as well go back to 8 or 9 weight divisions.

Arturo Gatti was so much bigger than Joey Gamache when they fought at Welterweight several years back, I don't think he ever recovered 100% from the beating he took that night.

It's one think if a smaller guy wants to step up in a weight class and take on a larger opponent. That's his choice. But Shane Mosley (just as an example) has no choice at all when he steps into the ring against Antonio Margarito.

It's even more ridiculous when you consider the weight classifications/limits under a microscope. The Welterweight LIMIT, is 147 pounds. Not 148, 149 or even 150. They have such exacting numbers when the classify the definition of these weight classes, and yet, a Middleweight Champion steps into the ring the night of the fight weighed 170 lbs to defend his 160 lb title?

I just want to go on record as saying - in my TB universe, everyone makes weight the morning of the fight.

* I remember that Gamache thing. Gatti jumped on the scales and jumped off real quick and drank some water. The NYS commission let it go with terrible results. Gamache was a trainer at Gleason's in Brooklyn for a while and is now working under Manny Steward as a trainer. Manny talks very well of him.

hamed2 · 01-10-2009, 11:18 AM

Other fighters have used this to their advantage. James Toney played FB in high school I heard but was so strong @ MW because he'd kill himself to get down to 160.

Fernando Vargas also is a bigger guy but was strong @ 154 because he walked around much heavier than that between fights.

Lee · 01-10-2009, 11:45 AM

My first move if elected all powerful commisioner of Boxing would be to abolish all the Jr divisions and go back to the original 8. Then I would move weigh ins to the morning of the fight

meade95 · 01-10-2009, 12:16 PM

I think there are real positive reasons for donig the weigh-ins 24hrs before the fight - For hydration / re-hydration concerns. Allowing the body to replenish prior to fighting.

Sure "cutting" weight is becoming both a science and an art today......but in total and on whole I think the weigh-in's the day before the fight still make sense overall....

Mad Bomber · 01-22-2009, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jersey-Jim

Yesterday I was listening to an interview with Shane Mosley and his trainer (2 separate intervews you can listen to at thering-online.com). Both Mosley and Richardson made mention of the fact that Margarito would probably weight between 160 and 165 by fight night.

This is totally ridiculous. I like the old-school way where the fighter weighed in the morning of the fight and that was the official weight and weigh-in for the match.

You can see why guys like Zab Judah and Miguel Cotto, who are smaller Welterweights, would have so many problems against a bigger fighter like Margarito, who will step into the ring as a Super Middleweight to defend his title!

It's not Margarito's fault, of course. He doesn't make the rules, he's just making the most of whatever advantages he has. Mosley seems to think this will work in his advantage, but I doubt it.

Mosley can beat Margarito by outboxing him and moving away while scoring points. But to be honest, I wouldn't mind seeing Margarito stop him early rather than see him go the DeLaHoya rout and take a beating for 12 rounds.

The morning Weigh-In is still the way it is done in the Province of Ontario, and I agree that is still the way it should be. IMO

Beno999 · 01-22-2009, 02:58 PM

good point well made jim, i think margarito will turn out to be too resiliant for mosley, margarito will come at him all night long and no matter what shane throws at him, he wont be able to budge that chin of his.

PWillisTheMan · 01-22-2009, 03:36 PM

I thought Gatti/Gamache was a Lightweight fight and Arturo weighed 160?

Same day is better for the reasons you listed. The healthier aspect of having 24 hours to rehydrate has been thrown out the window. I did pocket $2,500 on Pac/DLH because I knew he was so unhealthy. Funny thing on that I bet by KO at +400 and by KO in the 8th, 9th, 10th & 11th at +4,000. Man I was sweating in the seventh.

They would have to realign all the weight divisions champions and that is never going to happen. For better or worse. This system isn't going to change.

There are only a handful of world class fighters that could fight at their current weights.

Cap · 01-23-2009, 08:34 AM

Like you said, these are the rules, live with them. This is yet one more reason why boxing is a niche sport. It's run like a five-and-dime circus that still somehow manages to make millions every year. Go figure. We all say, "If I was in charge....", but we know that most of the gentlemen who actualy are in charge, are in it to squeeze the last drop of blood out of it before they go back to running drugs and underage girls and boys.

Thank gawd for Title Bout and our little fantasy boxing worlds.....

Cap

hamed2 · 01-23-2009, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meade95

I think there are real positive reasons for donig the weigh-ins 24hrs before the fight - For hydration / re-hydration concerns. Allowing the body to replenish prior to fighting.

Sure "cutting" weight is becoming both a science and an art today......but in total and on whole I think the weigh-in's the day before the fight still make sense overall....

I agree & everyone has a chance to use/bend the rules to their advantage if they choose to do so. In other words, be a BIG LW, WW, or MW, etc.

dust · 01-24-2009, 04:46 PM

Yeah because we know guys won't cut tons of weight even on the morning of a fight. Boxers dropping dead because people cry about size differences would be great, right? The rules are fine as they are.

Cap · 01-24-2009, 04:56 PM

A guy comes in twenty pounds over the so-called limit should at least pay a penalty for every pound over the line. I'd say change the scoring rules too, but that could never happen. Funny how two heavyweights can tangle with 30 or 40 pounds between them and no one bats an eye.

Cap

Jersey-Jim · 01-24-2009, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cap

A guy comes in twenty pounds over the so-called limit should at least pay a penalty for every pound over the line. I'd say change the scoring rules too, but that could never happen. Funny how two heavyweights can tangle with 30 or 40 pounds between them and no one bats an eye.

Cap

That's because the small guys are like cars that don't come with air bags. They're standard equipment in 220 and higher

Cap · 01-24-2009, 07:49 PM

Yes.

01-09-2009, 08:16 PM	#1
Jersey-Jim Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Toms River, NJ & Sarasota, FL. Posts: 2,702	The 160 lb. Welterweight Title Fight Yesterday I was listening to an interview with Shane Mosley and his trainer (2 separate intervews you can listen to at thering-online.com). Both Mosley and Richardson made mention of the fact that Margarito would probably weight between 160 and 165 by fight night. This is totally ridiculous. I like the old-school way where the fighter weighed in the morning of the fight and that was the official weight and weigh-in for the match. You can see why guys like Zab Judah and Miguel Cotto, who are smaller Welterweights, would have so many problems against a bigger fighter like Margarito, who will step into the ring as a Super Middleweight to defend his title! It's not Margarito's fault, of course. He doesn't make the rules, he's just making the most of whatever advantages he has. Mosley seems to think this will work in his advantage, but I doubt it. Mosley can beat Margarito by outboxing him and moving away while scoring points. But to be honest, I wouldn't mind seeing Margarito stop him early rather than see him go the DeLaHoya rout and take a beating for 12 rounds. __________________ *The Boxing Magazine.com: Sep. 2010 Issue* The 2010 All-Time Heavyweight Champions Tournament Notes From A Title Bout Universe Notes from my All-Time Tournaments Heavyweight \| Light Heavyweight Middleweight \|

01-09-2009, 09:00 PM	#2
IceTea Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Sherrill, NY Posts: 9,836	I also agree that boxers should weight in the day of the bout. It most likely doesn't matter for heavyweights. __________________ Don't worry, be happy! Women's Boxing Cyber Boxing Zone Philadelphia Boxing Boxrec Ross Boxing https://boxingjones.com/

01-10-2009, 01:24 AM	#3
Jersey-Jim Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Toms River, NJ & Sarasota, FL. Posts: 2,702	The whole idea of creating Jr. divisions to begin with was so guys that couldn't make (let's say 147lbs) but weren't big enough to complete at Middleweight (160 lbs), there was the perfect catch weight of 154 lbs and the Jr. Middleweight division was born. Now, if you have a guy defending a 147 lb title and doing so at 160-165, it defeats the purpose. You may as well go back to 8 or 9 weight divisions. Arturo Gatti was so much bigger than Joey Gamache when they fought at Welterweight several years back, I don't think he ever recovered 100% from the beating he took that night. It's one think if a smaller guy wants to step up in a weight class and take on a larger opponent. That's his choice. But Shane Mosley (just as an example) has no choice at all when he steps into the ring against Antonio Margarito. It's even more ridiculous when you consider the weight classifications/limits under a microscope. The Welterweight LIMIT, is 147 pounds. Not 148, 149 or even 150. They have such exacting numbers when the classify the definition of these weight classes, and yet, a Middleweight Champion steps into the ring the night of the fight weighed 170 lbs to defend his 160 lb title? I just want to go on record as saying - in my TB universe, everyone makes weight the morning of the fight. __________________ *The Boxing Magazine.com: Sep. 2010 Issue* The 2010 All-Time Heavyweight Champions Tournament Notes From A Title Bout Universe Notes from my All-Time Tournaments Heavyweight \| Light Heavyweight Middleweight \|

01-22-2009, 02:58 PM	#9
Beno999 All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Nottingham, UK Posts: 654	good point well made jim, i think margarito will turn out to be too resiliant for mosley, margarito will come at him all night long and no matter what shane throws at him, he wont be able to budge that chin of his. __________________

01-23-2009, 08:34 AM	#11
Cap Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Large Province in God's Country Posts: 7,979	Like you said, these are the rules, live with them. This is yet one more reason why boxing is a niche sport. It's run like a five-and-dime circus that still somehow manages to make millions every year. Go figure. We all say, "If I was in charge....", but we know that most of the gentlemen who actualy are in charge, are in it to squeeze the last drop of blood out of it before they go back to running drugs and underage girls and boys. Thank gawd for Title Bout and our little fantasy boxing worlds..... Cap __________________ "...There were Giants in Those Days.."

01-10-2009, 11:18 AM	#5
hamed2 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 3,225	Other fighters have used this to their advantage. James Toney played FB in high school I heard but was so strong @ MW because he'd kill himself to get down to 160. Fernando Vargas also is a bigger guy but was strong @ 154 because he walked around much heavier than that between fights.

01-10-2009, 11:45 AM	#6
Lee Global Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The Scorched Desert Posts: 4,652	My first move if elected all powerful commisioner of Boxing would be to abolish all the Jr divisions and go back to the original 8. Then I would move weigh ins to the morning of the fight

01-10-2009, 12:16 PM	#7
meade95 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 2,095	I think there are real positive reasons for donig the weigh-ins 24hrs before the fight - For hydration / re-hydration concerns. Allowing the body to replenish prior to fighting. Sure "cutting" weight is becoming both a science and an art today......but in total and on whole I think the weigh-in's the day before the fight still make sense overall....

01-22-2009, 03:36 PM	#10
PWillisTheMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 3,418	I thought Gatti/Gamache was a Lightweight fight and Arturo weighed 160? Same day is better for the reasons you listed. The healthier aspect of having 24 hours to rehydrate has been thrown out the window. I did pocket $2,500 on Pac/DLH because I knew he was so unhealthy. Funny thing on that I bet by KO at +400 and by KO in the 8th, 9th, 10th & 11th at +4,000. Man I was sweating in the seventh. They would have to realign all the weight divisions champions and that is never going to happen. For better or worse. This system isn't going to change. There are only a handful of world class fighters that could fight at their current weights.

01-24-2009, 04:46 PM	#13
dust Bat Boy Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 12	Yeah because we know guys won't cut tons of weight even on the morning of a fight. Boxers dropping dead because people cry about size differences would be great, right? The rules are fine as they are.

01-24-2009, 04:56 PM	#14
Cap Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Large Province in God's Country Posts: 7,979	A guy comes in twenty pounds over the so-called limit should at least pay a penalty for every pound over the line. I'd say change the scoring rules too, but that could never happen. Funny how two heavyweights can tangle with 30 or 40 pounds between them and no one bats an eye. Cap __________________ "...There were Giants in Those Days.."

01-24-2009, 07:49 PM	#16
Cap Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Large Province in God's Country Posts: 7,979	Yes. __________________ "...There were Giants in Those Days.." Last edited by Cap; 01-24-2009 at 07:50 PM.