Knicks fire sale begins

CommishJoe · 11-21-2008, 02:38 PM

FOX Sports on MSN - NBA - Report: Knicks to get Harrington from Warriors

Anyone who knows anything about basketball care to comment? I am only an armchair fan of basketball and the Knicks so I'm curious about how "good" these deals are other than getting them under the cap in 2010.

Jeremy Weimer · 11-21-2008, 04:38 PM

Harrington is a legit player. He's wanted out of Golden State for a while now so it's a win-win for New York. They're getting a quality player and someone with a contract that will be off the books in time to go after LeBron which is what they want. He may not be as good as Crawford or fill the gap of his stats but he's not much worse either.

Steve T · 11-21-2008, 06:49 PM

The Knicks Blog

And the Knicks sent Zach Randolph and Mardy Collins to LAC for Cuttino Mobley, Tim Thomas, possibly a 2nd rounder.

Amazing trades by Donnie Walsh today. Assuming they let Harrington, Mobley, and Thomas walk after 2010, the Knicks will have cleared about $30M in salary. If they can get rid of Curry, the Knicks should be able to resign Lee or Robinson, and be able to sign 2-3 max contract players.

jbergey22 · 11-21-2008, 07:31 PM

I understand what the knicks are trying to do Im trying to figure out what Golden State or the Clippers are doing.

Adding Crawford to an already crowded backcout as if 2 ball hogs starting already isnt enough.

The Clippers now have a very crowded front court. Do they plan on playing Randolph and small forward? Who is going to start at the off guard? I hope they arent thinking Gordon will do anything.

andjbock · 11-22-2008, 02:40 AM

The Knicks go from $98mm to $18mm this year to the 2010 season, so I think a lot of this is banking on LeBron.

As for now, the Knicks get Tim Thomas, who I assume was liked in NY, but is also a very versatile player who can play 3 positions. They get Cutino Mobley who has always been pretty steady and Harrington who is also pretty versatile. I'll guess these are guys who all fit into D'Antoni's system for the time being.

It'll be interesting, since the team was doing well enough before the trade.

=

The Clippers get a guy who can score like Brand did. Thornton isn't a superstar IMO, so he'll become a better player being the second scoring option.

=

I really don't understand what GS is doing since they have two awesome undrafted SGs in Azubuike and Morrow.

andjbock · 11-22-2008, 02:45 AM

Jalen Rose just said that Chris Bosh and LeBron will be Knicks in 2010. D-Wade and Amare are the other 2 big FAs.

1998 Yankees · 11-22-2008, 12:04 PM

As a long-time Knicks fan (pity me, please), I like these trades. I will miss Zach Randolph a lot more than Jamal Crawford. Randolph is a good all-round player but let's face it, the Knicks are going nowhere again this year, not with this team.

Crawford, on the other hand . . . well, yes he can score many points at times but he was inconsistent, fading out of the picture at other times. D'Antoni handed the ball to him at the beginning of the season, telling him to "go forth and score" under his new system, but Crawford was ineffective. I got the impression that he did not like to be singled out in such a manner.

This season and the next are rebuilders. 2010 shimmers like a mirage in a desert of bad basketball.

stevebydac · 11-22-2008, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andjbock

Jalen Rose just said that Chris Bosh and LeBron will be Knicks in 2010. D-Wade and Amare are the other 2 big FAs.

I will laugh my butt off when, after all of these maneuverings, the Knicks (and other teams who are already plotting for the 2010 FAs) come up empty.

In two years players can get injured, skills decline for whatever reason, get in trouble with women/drugs/cops, etc. The landscape will look far different then than it does now. One or two of the big names mentioned won't be as desired, and there will be 2 or 3 players not in that 2010 FA class who will be more desired.

Whatever happened to trying to win THIS season?

Jestor · 11-22-2008, 01:54 PM

I think it's a very real possibility that the Knicks come up empty. This is a huge gamble they're taking.

CMH · 11-22-2008, 08:18 PM

It's a risk but it's better than what we've been watching.

Eckstein 4 Prez · 11-22-2008, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jestor

I think it's a very real possibility that the Knicks come up empty. This is a huge gamble they're taking.

Agreed. However, I think it's a worthwhile gamble. You need superstars to win championships.

His Own Bad Self · 11-23-2008, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eckstein 4 Prez

Agreed. However, I think it's a worthwhile gamble. You need superstars to win championships.

Especially taking salary cap rules into account. Assuming that the top 15 players in the league all have max contracts, the best player can't be paid much more (if any more) than the 15th best. Of players who get to free agency, I'd think that the league's elite players provide a better ROI than all the others... and that's before considering the disproportionate impact that one player can have on a game.

jbergey22 · 11-23-2008, 10:13 AM

Just to add

The NBA salary cap is so messed up its not even funny. I cant believe after all these trades like this where the value is getting the expiring contracts that Stern hasnt made any adjustments to this.

IMO this turns fans away from the game. Your team gets a couple bad deals on the books and its a 5 year process before your team can be competitive again. Isnt this completely against what this salary cap is suppose to do?

As a t-wolve fan as happy as I was for KG to get his championship it was so frustrating that their seemed like there was very little the wolves could do to get anyone around him. If you are stuck around being the 12-15 best team in the league every year you basically need to get lucky in order to get some better talent. You wont get a lottery pick and its was nearly impossible to add any impact free agent as they got stuck with a KG contract that was grandfathered in.

I really think the NBA financial structure is the worst in sports. You wont see any other league where you will see all star caliber players getting traded for that will get bought out or guys that have no upside at all.

The knicks just traded a potential all star for a couple journeyman vets in which most of us agree the knicks got the better deal. That right there tells me the NBA is messed up.

1998 Yankees · 11-23-2008, 11:34 AM

I agree with the above ^^^^^. I've had to watch much bad basketball because of this situation.

That being said, now the Knicks should unload Eddie Curry and Jerome James if possible. And for gosh sakes, just pay off Marbury and send him home for a year. What a farce that is. I'm surprised Marbury agreed to suit up the other night so they had eight Knicks in uniform for the game, an NBA requirement. Still refused to play when offered, however.

"Rant of the Week," a feature in my local newspaper for especially witty reader comments:

Quote:

The only reason the Knicks got rid of Zach Randolph and Jamal Crawford was so there would be room on the bench for Stephon Marbury to lie down.

LOL. Very good.

BaseballMan · 11-23-2008, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevebydac

I will laugh my butt off when, after all of these maneuverings, the Knicks (and other teams who are already plotting for the 2010 FAs) come up empty.

In two years players can get injured, skills decline for whatever reason, get in trouble with women/drugs/cops, etc. The landscape will look far different then than it does now. One or two of the big names mentioned won't be as desired, and there will be 2 or 3 players not in that 2010 FA class who will be more desired.

Whatever happened to trying to win THIS season?

Other Players could also get better. It could never be any worse than the Thomas years. I dont think they wont try to win now but know that chances are they wont win with the talent they have now. Whether it works or not
at least they have a plan.

Go Tribe · 11-23-2008, 05:41 PM

i remember when jerry krause did the same thing way back when to maneuver his team into position to pick up a huge windfall of max contract free agents.

man that worked out well for them

Lebron isn't going to New York or New Jersey - he won't be any more of a star around the world because of which city he plays for. He just wants to win a ton of championships and the Knicks have pretty much taken themselves out of that category - sure they cleared up a ton of cap space but they'll have 4 players (and no good ones) under contract when Lebron hits the market. The Cavs will have enough for Bosh and James and have said that they are targeting both players as well. They have an advantage in already have a nucleus of good young players and Lebron's hometown. They get Bosh or another key player first and I guarantee Lebron signs a long term max deal.

Go Tribe · 11-23-2008, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

Other Players could also get better. It could never be any worse than the Thomas years. I dont think they wont try to win now but know that chances are they wont win with the talent they have now. Whether it works or not
at least they have a plan.

they have the same plan that 5 other teams have

sell all of your contracts and cross your fingers

not much of a plan

mgom27 · 11-23-2008, 10:40 PM

Eddie Curry,Rose and Marbury to the Magic for JJ,Bogans,Richardson,Cook and so on?

Warriors will be using Crawford at PG intill Ellis gets back.

No Randolph will not be playing SF.

Jalen might have said that but most of those Free-Agents might resign with their teams.

Stoudmire would look good playing with Dwight Howard.

BaseballMan · 11-24-2008, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Go Tribe

they have the same plan that 5 other teams have

sell all of your contracts and cross your fingers

not much of a plan

yeah but like compare it to the Isiah Thomas plan and
you could call Walsh the wonder boy.

Melo · 11-24-2008, 09:16 AM

I wasn't sure I would ever see the Knicks under the cap in my lifetime.

Kudos to Walsh for not only clearing space for 2010 but being able to get back decent talent to play D'Antoni's system. There's only two more petulant players to shed. Marbury is gone at least at the end of the season and that waste of space Curry will rot on the bench and hopefully decline his player option. At least the Knicks will be fun to watch again. They had only seven players total for Fridays game and they gave more effort than most of the drek has for the last 5-6 seasons under that fube, Isiah Thomas.

11-21-2008, 02:38 PM	#1
CommishJoe Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 5,238	Knicks fire sale begins FOX Sports on MSN - NBA - Report: Knicks to get Harrington from Warriors Anyone who knows anything about basketball care to comment? I am only an armchair fan of basketball and the Knicks so I'm curious about how "good" these deals are other than getting them under the cap in 2010. __________________ Joe Success isn’t owned. It’s leased. And rent is due every day.

11-23-2008, 10:40 PM	#18
mgom27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,530	Eddie Curry,Rose and Marbury to the Magic for JJ,Bogans,Richardson,Cook and so on? Warriors will be using Crawford at PG intill Ellis gets back. No Randolph will not be playing SF. Jalen might have said that but most of those Free-Agents might resign with their teams. Stoudmire would look good playing with Dwight Howard. __________________ Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!

11-21-2008, 04:38 PM	#2
Jeremy Weimer Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 3,411	Harrington is a legit player. He's wanted out of Golden State for a while now so it's a win-win for New York. They're getting a quality player and someone with a contract that will be off the books in time to go after LeBron which is what they want. He may not be as good as Crawford or fill the gap of his stats but he's not much worse either.

11-21-2008, 06:49 PM	#3
Steve T Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Pocono Mountains, PA Posts: 346	The Knicks Blog And the Knicks sent Zach Randolph and Mardy Collins to LAC for Cuttino Mobley, Tim Thomas, possibly a 2nd rounder. Amazing trades by Donnie Walsh today. Assuming they let Harrington, Mobley, and Thomas walk after 2010, the Knicks will have cleared about $30M in salary. If they can get rid of Curry, the Knicks should be able to resign Lee or Robinson, and be able to sign 2-3 max contract players.

11-21-2008, 07:31 PM	#4
jbergey22 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,481	I understand what the knicks are trying to do Im trying to figure out what Golden State or the Clippers are doing. Adding Crawford to an already crowded backcout as if 2 ball hogs starting already isnt enough. The Clippers now have a very crowded front court. Do they plan on playing Randolph and small forward? Who is going to start at the off guard? I hope they arent thinking Gordon will do anything.

11-22-2008, 02:40 AM	#5
andjbock Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Somerville, MA, USA Bats: Right Throws: Left Posts: 3,637	The Knicks go from $98mm to $18mm this year to the 2010 season, so I think a lot of this is banking on LeBron. As for now, the Knicks get Tim Thomas, who I assume was liked in NY, but is also a very versatile player who can play 3 positions. They get Cutino Mobley who has always been pretty steady and Harrington who is also pretty versatile. I'll guess these are guys who all fit into D'Antoni's system for the time being. It'll be interesting, since the team was doing well enough before the trade. = The Clippers get a guy who can score like Brand did. Thornton isn't a superstar IMO, so he'll become a better player being the second scoring option. = I really don't understand what GS is doing since they have two awesome undrafted SGs in Azubuike and Morrow.

11-22-2008, 02:45 AM	#6
andjbock Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Somerville, MA, USA Bats: Right Throws: Left Posts: 3,637	Jalen Rose just said that Chris Bosh and LeBron will be Knicks in 2010. D-Wade and Amare are the other 2 big FAs.

11-22-2008, 12:04 PM	#7
1998 Yankees Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Yankee Stadium, back in 1998. Posts: 8,645	As a long-time Knicks fan (pity me, please), I like these trades. I will miss Zach Randolph a lot more than Jamal Crawford. Randolph is a good all-round player but let's face it, the Knicks are going nowhere again this year, not with this team. Crawford, on the other hand . . . well, yes he can score many points at times but he was inconsistent, fading out of the picture at other times. D'Antoni handed the ball to him at the beginning of the season, telling him to "go forth and score" under his new system, but Crawford was ineffective. I got the impression that he did not like to be singled out in such a manner. This season and the next are rebuilders. 2010 shimmers like a mirage in a desert of bad basketball.

11-22-2008, 08:18 PM	#10
CMH Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,057	It's a risk but it's better than what we've been watching.

11-23-2008, 10:13 AM	#13
jbergey22 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,481	Just to add The NBA salary cap is so messed up its not even funny. I cant believe after all these trades like this where the value is getting the expiring contracts that Stern hasnt made any adjustments to this. IMO this turns fans away from the game. Your team gets a couple bad deals on the books and its a 5 year process before your team can be competitive again. Isnt this completely against what this salary cap is suppose to do? As a t-wolve fan as happy as I was for KG to get his championship it was so frustrating that their seemed like there was very little the wolves could do to get anyone around him. If you are stuck around being the 12-15 best team in the league every year you basically need to get lucky in order to get some better talent. You wont get a lottery pick and its was nearly impossible to add any impact free agent as they got stuck with a KG contract that was grandfathered in. I really think the NBA financial structure is the worst in sports. You wont see any other league where you will see all star caliber players getting traded for that will get bought out or guys that have no upside at all. The knicks just traded a potential all star for a couple journeyman vets in which most of us agree the knicks got the better deal. That right there tells me the NBA is messed up.

11-23-2008, 05:41 PM	#16
Go Tribe All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 1,534 Infractions: 1/0 (0)	i remember when jerry krause did the same thing way back when to maneuver his team into position to pick up a huge windfall of max contract free agents. man that worked out well for them Lebron isn't going to New York or New Jersey - he won't be any more of a star around the world because of which city he plays for. He just wants to win a ton of championships and the Knicks have pretty much taken themselves out of that category - sure they cleared up a ton of cap space but they'll have 4 players (and no good ones) under contract when Lebron hits the market. The Cavs will have enough for Bosh and James and have said that they are targeting both players as well. They have an advantage in already have a nucleus of good young players and Lebron's hometown. They get Bosh or another key player first and I guarantee Lebron signs a long term max deal.

11-24-2008, 09:16 AM	#20
Melo All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Where the baned reside Posts: 1,428	I wasn't sure I would ever see the Knicks under the cap in my lifetime. Kudos to Walsh for not only clearing space for 2010 but being able to get back decent talent to play D'Antoni's system. There's only two more petulant players to shed. Marbury is gone at least at the end of the season and that waste of space Curry will rot on the bench and hopefully decline his player option. At least the Knicks will be fun to watch again. They had only seven players total for Fridays game and they gave more effort than most of the drek has for the last 5-6 seasons under that fube, Isiah Thomas.