Made it through one season with scouting on

lynchjm24 · 07-01-2008, 09:45 PM

Can't do the draft with scouting on - it's ridiculous. I had a scout who was rated a 20 on am talent.

He told me that a CF was a 22 contact 23 power 19 eye player. Turns out he's 9-19-7

He told me that a 1b was a 23 contact 10 power 22 eye player. Turns out he's 15-4-10

The OSA scouting is much much much more accurate during the draft. So long scouting.

Who Killed Kenny? · 07-01-2008, 10:00 PM

Scouts are only "human" too

bababui · 07-01-2008, 10:05 PM

Scouting is horrific in this version for human players who play out each game. Firstly, its absurd to have to scout ones own team. The Manager and staff know how good their players are. Scouting should only focus on players not in a human players organization.

Charley575 · 07-01-2008, 10:22 PM

I actually preferred having to micro-manage my scouts because at least then I could get a report whenever I wanted, for any club in my organization, from any of six different people. NOW, I have to wait (and wait), for one person's worthless assessment. THbbbbbb!!! So I've turned it off, and I'm much happier. I feel like the scouting system has been hijacked by a faction of the community that felt that the scouts were too good in past versions. So now, like most things in life, the pendulum has swung the other way and the scouts are now worthless. So it's off on my machine.

endgame · 07-01-2008, 10:51 PM

Not intended to start a flame, but actually a serious inquiry on my part. Ok?

I have a little trouble getting my head wrapped around why scouting accuracy and development reports are so important to some people (not necessarily saying any of you), but on the other hand I 'seem' to find a lot of these same people - or a lot of people who are representative of that need - also commenting on how this or that compares to the real ratings. So, my real question?

If you spend so much time looking at real ratings anyway, what's the point of even using scouts or pointing out its variances? It seems that more time is spent looking at the real side of things anyway, so I don't get it. Beyond that, I do understand the desire for a guide of some kind that betrays changes in player's performance evaluations, and IF the scouting system were a 'tad' more reliable and frequent when you possess an excellent scout, I'd see the reason to use them and their reports rather than live in real ratings land. So I do get that. Sorta. But even then, those scouts must have some variance in their reliability too, don't you think?

I suppose I never really identified with the game played with everything exposed and all changes made available on a regular basis with no variables at all. Subjective, I guess, but that just seems a bit dry and, in some respects, so unlike managerial life. Actually, I've always been an advocate of a system in which no real ratings were ever available to anyone, including the AI. But that probably complicates historical play and because we still try to make sure everyone has something to cling to, again in some respects, we all make some sacrifices. Sorry 'bout the ramble. There really was a legitimate question or two in there. Maybe a good scout can locate its potential.

Poweshow · 07-01-2008, 11:08 PM

I personally loved scouting where I could get opinions from multiple scouts. I just started getting into my league and I can definately see how scouting has changed, and not in a positive way in terms of how I play the game. I guess I'll learn to work with it though...

Charley575 · 07-01-2008, 11:16 PM

Well, I never used to look at real ratings. I was okay with going by the scouting reports. But scouting reports were worth something then. No longer. If you like to play without any ratings, isn't there a way to do that? Why do the rest of us who like to use ratings have to suffer because a faction of the community who like the use the "fog of war" method of player evaluation don't like the concept of ratings? Also, if there are no ratings, what do you do for an initial draft, where there are no stats to go by. What is the point of drafting, in that case? Why not just assign all players to random teams? It's the same thing as drafting. The same can be said for the worthless scouting reports in the current version. There can be no point in having an inaugural draft using worthless scouting reports. You can use the scouting reports or you can throw darts at a board, or consult the Mojo Man. Use tarot cards. Whatever. the result is the same.

vesuvius · 07-01-2008, 11:42 PM

Scouting was useable in earlier versions because you could get 6 different scout opinions on each player (if you so choosed). From that you could gain a reasonable estimate of the player's abilities, weeding out the crazy valuations.

Now, with only 1 "opinion", that can vary wildly when it is off, it really shows the failing of the scouting engine in general.

SC_Dawg · 07-02-2008, 01:06 AM

OK I'm confused here and it probably is because i am operating on a lack of sleep however .. Did I just read where someone said the OSA scouting is better than a scouting director with a rating of 20 (I am assuming on a scale of 1-20)?

Well I decided to go look at the league I have been goofing off with and have a 40 year history that I plan to run to 60 years overnight tonight.

Anyhow I took command of one of the teams and his scouting ratings are as follows

Scout Majors: 17
Scout Minors: 16
International Scouting: 17
Scout Amateurs: 17

A very good scout on a 1-20 scale

Now I went and looked at what he thought of a few players on his own team vs what the OSA thought of the same player vs what the actual ratings are. All are on the 1-20 scale except the actuals which are of course on the 1-250 scale.

I first went to the clean-up hitter on the team

Actuals (Scout/OSA/Actual)
Contact: 18/20/170
Gap Power: 13/16/130
Home Run Power: 16/20/167
Eye/Discipline: 14/17/140
Avoid K's: 12/15/117

Potentials
Contact: 18/20/168
Gap Power: 13/16/124
Home Run Power: 16/20/158
Eye/Discipline: 14/17/131
Avoid K's: 13/15/129

Clearly he is much more accurate on an established vet

Now to the teams 1st pick in the last draft

Actuals (Scout/OSA/Actual)
Contact: 5/6/48
Gap Power: 4/5/38
Home Run Power: 1/1/3
Eye/Discipline: 2/3/17
Avoid K's: 2/3/17

Potentials
Contact: 13/17/154
Gap Power: 9/13/130
Home Run Power: 1/2/7
Eye/Discipline: 7/12/87
Avoid K's: 6/11/87

Once again the scout is much more reliable than the OSA.

As I went down the entire roster I saw the same thing over and over again, the scouting director was by and large much more accurate than the OSA.

I fail to see when a competent scouting director is on the staff how it is worse than the OSA. As I said maybe I am missing something here and if I am you will excuse me please.

Now you want more realistic remember that every year MLB holds a draft and there are 30 players who are chosen in the 1st round. How many of them ever pan out to be everything the scouts thought they would be? If the MLB scouts can blow it on player after player and miss on a player like Mike Piazza then surely we can allow a computer game to do it also.

bailey · 07-02-2008, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

Can't do the draft with scouting on - it's ridiculous. I had a scout who was rated a 20 on am talent.

What kind of scouting budget did you have? Was it more, less or equal to the league average? What percentage was dedicated to scouting amateurs?

spitfire · 07-02-2008, 02:13 AM

Its been pointed out that the scouting reports improve over time, at least for the players on one's own team that the scout is "seeing" repeatedly. The scouting for the inaugural draft seems pretty well unuseable, and you don't seem to to be able to adjust the scouting budget before that first draft. I started a fictional league with a pretty average scout, and the results were awful. The guys he rated highly turned out to be worthless and I ended up with an entire team making the major-league minimum. I'm in my fourth year with that team and I'm just now approaching mediocrity. It's an interesting challenge, but I think in my next league I'll turn the scouting off and try to get some decent players in the draft!

Last year's scouting system did seem cumbersome, but it wasn't too bad if you assigned certain scouts to a particular league and just had them either cycle through the teams or do an in-depth scout. I used to have my head scout do each major-league team in turn and had my club listed repeatedly to stay current on my own players. Had one or two other scouts start at the other end of the league, so I was getting lots of current info on the teams. I miss the mutiple opinions you could get from different scouts, and I certainly don't like having to wait for updated scouting reports, especially on my own team. I wish it were possible to add a couple of "special assignment" scouts on to the OOTP9 system, so that you could at least focus on a particular area and get more frequently updated scouting reports. I don't mind the budget allocations affecting accuracy overall, but I'd like the problems with the inaugural draft to be addressed so that it's made practical to use one's scout for it.

Markus Heinsohn · 07-02-2008, 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

Can't do the draft with scouting on - it's ridiculous. I had a scout who was rated a 20 on am talent.

He told me that a CF was a 22 contact 23 power 19 eye player. Turns out he's 9-19-7

He told me that a 1b was a 23 contact 10 power 22 eye player. Turns out he's 15-4-10

The OSA scouting is much much much more accurate during the draft. So long scouting.

That happens in real life all the time... players get assigned a certain talent by scouts, and in the end they were dead-wrong. So, the engine works as it should IMO.

SDtwin · 07-02-2008, 03:56 AM

Maybe Markus should let us choose how often we get scouting reports from the director. I think that would ease a lot of people's complaints about how long you have to wait for a new scouting report. Maybe an every 3 months, every 6 months and then the current settings. That doesn't seem like it would be too hard to implement and might ease some of the complaints.

kingpin1976 · 07-02-2008, 03:58 AM

I like how the scout system is set up after you get 10-15 years of history,I take a look at career stats and lightly base my decisions on scouting ratings and scouting reports. I guess I've just been accustomed to this style since ver 6 when I began playing with ratings turned off. Last years version with 6 scouts IMO it was easy to forget what their role was, or forget to reassign them after completing their prior task.
Also you can still do a quick scout on a player I dont know if you've seen that option.

Markus Heinsohn · 07-02-2008, 04:27 AM

Anyway, since you cannot please everyone I just did this: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...-features.html

ricobrown · 07-02-2008, 05:27 AM

I'm still wondering if there is any way to get the multiple scouts back. I had all my different scouts out scouting different countries, and found a number of young prospects, and also I loved the idea of having multiple opinions on different players. Maybe be able to choose the number of scouts you want to have availble for your time.

Markus Heinsohn · 07-02-2008, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricobrown

I'm still wondering if there is any way to get the multiple scouts back. I had all my different scouts out scouting different countries, and found a number of young prospects, and also I loved the idea of having multiple opinions on different players. Maybe be able to choose the number of scouts you want to have availble for your time.

No. But you will find young prospects now as well, depending on how much you spend on international scouting

Ben E Lou · 07-02-2008, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

No. But you will find young prospects now as well, depending on how much you spend on international scouting

Make sure you check my notes about...

1. frequency of players coming from the "wrong" country (ie a scout in Sweden turning up a player from Venezuela)
2. frequency of hidden players being stars

Markus Heinsohn · 07-02-2008, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Make sure you check my notes about...

1. frequency of players coming from the "wrong" country (ie a scout in Sweden turning up a player from Venezuela)
2. frequency of hidden players being stars

Where can I find them?

akw4572 · 07-02-2008, 06:53 AM

With scouts off, the ratings you see, are the actual ratings, correct?

07-01-2008, 09:45 PM	#1
lynchjm24 All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hartford Posts: 978 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Made it through one season with scouting on Can't do the draft with scouting on - it's ridiculous. I had a scout who was rated a 20 on am talent. He told me that a CF was a 22 contact 23 power 19 eye player. Turns out he's 9-19-7 He told me that a 1b was a 23 contact 10 power 22 eye player. Turns out he's 15-4-10 The OSA scouting is much much much more accurate during the draft. So long scouting.

07-01-2008, 10:22 PM	#4
Charley575 All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 544	I actually preferred having to micro-manage my scouts because at least then I could get a report whenever I wanted, for any club in my organization, from any of six different people. NOW, I have to wait (and wait), for one person's worthless assessment. THbbbbbb!!! So I've turned it off, and I'm much happier. I feel like the scouting system has been hijacked by a faction of the community that felt that the scouts were too good in past versions. So now, like most things in life, the pendulum has swung the other way and the scouts are now worthless. So it's off on my machine. __________________

07-01-2008, 10:51 PM	#5
endgame Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 16,842	Not intended to start a flame, but actually a serious inquiry on my part. Ok? I have a little trouble getting my head wrapped around why scouting accuracy and development reports are so important to some people (not necessarily saying any of you), but on the other hand I 'seem' to find a lot of these same people - or a lot of people who are representative of that need - also commenting on how this or that compares to the real ratings. So, my real question? If you spend so much time looking at real ratings anyway, what's the point of even using scouts or pointing out its variances? It seems that more time is spent looking at the real side of things anyway, so I don't get it. Beyond that, I do understand the desire for a guide of some kind that betrays changes in player's performance evaluations, and IF the scouting system were a 'tad' more reliable and frequent when you possess an excellent scout, I'd see the reason to use them and their reports rather than live in real ratings land. So I do get that. Sorta. But even then, those scouts must have some variance in their reliability too, don't you think? I suppose I never really identified with the game played with everything exposed and all changes made available on a regular basis with no variables at all. Subjective, I guess, but that just seems a bit dry and, in some respects, so unlike managerial life. Actually, I've always been an advocate of a system in which no real ratings were ever available to anyone, including the AI. But that probably complicates historical play and because we still try to make sure everyone has something to cling to, again in some respects, we all make some sacrifices. Sorry 'bout the ramble. There really was a legitimate question or two in there. Maybe a good scout can locate its potential. __________________ "Try again. Fail again. Fail better." -- Samuel Beckett _____________________________________________

07-01-2008, 11:16 PM	#7
Charley575 All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 544	Well, I never used to look at real ratings. I was okay with going by the scouting reports. But scouting reports were worth something then. No longer. If you like to play without any ratings, isn't there a way to do that? Why do the rest of us who like to use ratings have to suffer because a faction of the community who like the use the "fog of war" method of player evaluation don't like the concept of ratings? Also, if there are no ratings, what do you do for an initial draft, where there are no stats to go by. What is the point of drafting, in that case? Why not just assign all players to random teams? It's the same thing as drafting. The same can be said for the worthless scouting reports in the current version. There can be no point in having an inaugural draft using worthless scouting reports. You can use the scouting reports or you can throw darts at a board, or consult the Mojo Man. Use tarot cards. Whatever. the result is the same. __________________

07-01-2008, 11:42 PM	#8
vesuvius Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Ashburn, VA Posts: 136	Scouting was useable in earlier versions because you could get 6 different scout opinions on each player (if you so choosed). From that you could gain a reasonable estimate of the player's abilities, weeding out the crazy valuations. Now, with only 1 "opinion", that can vary wildly when it is off, it really shows the failing of the scouting engine in general. __________________ Join the CBL Rewind, a great historical OOTP 15 league! http://thecblonline.com/cblr/cblr.php Commish : wedgeeric@aol.com Join the Computer Baseball League, one of the longest running OOTP leagues in history (OOTP5)! http://www.thecblonline.com/cbl.php

07-01-2008, 10:00 PM	#2
Who Killed Kenny? Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 410	Scouts are only "human" too

07-01-2008, 11:08 PM	#6
Poweshow Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bay Area Posts: 243 Infractions: 0/3 (3)	I personally loved scouting where I could get opinions from multiple scouts. I just started getting into my league and I can definately see how scouting has changed, and not in a positive way in terms of how I play the game. I guess I'll learn to work with it though...

07-02-2008, 01:06 AM	#9
SC_Dawg All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Columbia, South Carolina Posts: 664	OK I'm confused here and it probably is because i am operating on a lack of sleep however .. Did I just read where someone said the OSA scouting is better than a scouting director with a rating of 20 (I am assuming on a scale of 1-20)? Well I decided to go look at the league I have been goofing off with and have a 40 year history that I plan to run to 60 years overnight tonight. Anyhow I took command of one of the teams and his scouting ratings are as follows Scout Majors: 17 Scout Minors: 16 International Scouting: 17 Scout Amateurs: 17 A very good scout on a 1-20 scale Now I went and looked at what he thought of a few players on his own team vs what the OSA thought of the same player vs what the actual ratings are. All are on the 1-20 scale except the actuals which are of course on the 1-250 scale. I first went to the clean-up hitter on the team Actuals (Scout/OSA/Actual) Contact: 18/20/170 Gap Power: 13/16/130 Home Run Power: 16/20/167 Eye/Discipline: 14/17/140 Avoid K's: 12/15/117 Potentials Contact: 18/20/168 Gap Power: 13/16/124 Home Run Power: 16/20/158 Eye/Discipline: 14/17/131 Avoid K's: 13/15/129 Clearly he is much more accurate on an established vet Now to the teams 1st pick in the last draft Actuals (Scout/OSA/Actual) Contact: 5/6/48 Gap Power: 4/5/38 Home Run Power: 1/1/3 Eye/Discipline: 2/3/17 Avoid K's: 2/3/17 Potentials Contact: 13/17/154 Gap Power: 9/13/130 Home Run Power: 1/2/7 Eye/Discipline: 7/12/87 Avoid K's: 6/11/87 Once again the scout is much more reliable than the OSA. As I went down the entire roster I saw the same thing over and over again, the scouting director was by and large much more accurate than the OSA. I fail to see when a competent scouting director is on the staff how it is worse than the OSA. As I said maybe I am missing something here and if I am you will excuse me please. Now you want more realistic remember that every year MLB holds a draft and there are 30 players who are chosen in the 1st round. How many of them ever pan out to be everything the scouts thought they would be? If the MLB scouts can blow it on player after player and miss on a player like Mike Piazza then surely we can allow a computer game to do it also. __________________ Jos 24:15 "If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."

07-02-2008, 02:13 AM	#11
spitfire All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 543	Its been pointed out that the scouting reports improve over time, at least for the players on one's own team that the scout is "seeing" repeatedly. The scouting for the inaugural draft seems pretty well unuseable, and you don't seem to to be able to adjust the scouting budget before that first draft. I started a fictional league with a pretty average scout, and the results were awful. The guys he rated highly turned out to be worthless and I ended up with an entire team making the major-league minimum. I'm in my fourth year with that team and I'm just now approaching mediocrity. It's an interesting challenge, but I think in my next league I'll turn the scouting off and try to get some decent players in the draft! Last year's scouting system did seem cumbersome, but it wasn't too bad if you assigned certain scouts to a particular league and just had them either cycle through the teams or do an in-depth scout. I used to have my head scout do each major-league team in turn and had my club listed repeatedly to stay current on my own players. Had one or two other scouts start at the other end of the league, so I was getting lots of current info on the teams. I miss the mutiple opinions you could get from different scouts, and I certainly don't like having to wait for updated scouting reports, especially on my own team. I wish it were possible to add a couple of "special assignment" scouts on to the OOTP9 system, so that you could at least focus on a particular area and get more frequently updated scouting reports. I don't mind the budget allocations affecting accuracy overall, but I'd like the problems with the inaugural draft to be addressed so that it's made practical to use one's scout for it.

07-02-2008, 03:56 AM	#13
SDtwin Major Leagues Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: San Diego Posts: 406	Maybe Markus should let us choose how often we get scouting reports from the director. I think that would ease a lot of people's complaints about how long you have to wait for a new scouting report. Maybe an every 3 months, every 6 months and then the current settings. That doesn't seem like it would be too hard to implement and might ease some of the complaints.

07-02-2008, 03:58 AM	#14
kingpin1976 Major Leagues Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 402	I like how the scout system is set up after you get 10-15 years of history,I take a look at career stats and lightly base my decisions on scouting ratings and scouting reports. I guess I've just been accustomed to this style since ver 6 when I began playing with ratings turned off. Last years version with 6 scouts IMO it was easy to forget what their role was, or forget to reassign them after completing their prior task. Also you can still do a quick scout on a player I dont know if you've seen that option.

07-02-2008, 04:27 AM	#15
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,805	Anyway, since you cannot please everyone I just did this: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...-features.html

07-02-2008, 05:27 AM	#16
ricobrown Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 131	still wondering I'm still wondering if there is any way to get the multiple scouts back. I had all my different scouts out scouting different countries, and found a number of young prospects, and also I loved the idea of having multiple opinions on different players. Maybe be able to choose the number of scouts you want to have availble for your time.

07-02-2008, 06:53 AM	#20
akw4572 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 2,601	With scouts off, the ratings you see, are the actual ratings, correct?