Career Ending injuries???

[Hador]

Ok, I have now played two games for a total of 15 seasons or so and I gotta say that the number of career ending injuries is ridiculously high if you have the injury setting on average.

Here is look at just some of the retired players that have suffered career ending injuries by 2014 (started 2008) in my simulation:



And as I said those are only SOME of the players. In total in this sim by 2014 I had OVER 40 players suffer career ending injuries. What makes it even worse is that the majority of those affected seem to be young high potential players.

On my team alone I lost 4 players with a potential of 4* or higher in that time span. From other teams players like Jay Bruce suffered the same fate.

Which brings me to the question: Is it possible that younger players that get called up into the majors in their early 20's have an higher risk of suffering career ending injuries than other players?

Anyway I am wondering whether other players have noticed the same thing because I really am getting to the point where I think somebody needs to look at this.

[Raidergoo]

Those may not all be CEI's. Some could be a normal injury suffered at the end of a player's career when they decided to retire. I don't think that injury flag ever clears. I think this is a very old bug dating back years.

[toxicavenger74]

So, a couple of things with CEI's that needs to be realized, some of it is current use of the CEI's.

This is without running the numbers but with real life baseball I would safely assume that at least 40 MLB caliber players had an injury that was significantly detrimental to their career. The problem is that after a rehabilitation period many of the players come back and play and struggle and so we don't see this as a CEI but simply as an injury and a comeback. For example, look at Juan Gonzalez or possibly even Mark Mulder and there are many others of differing abilities. Even Dravecky had a comeback before having to have his arm amputated and therefore having a true CEI. Also, Scott Rolen is a very good example of someone who has not been close to the same as he was before injury. In OOTP this is maybe a CEI, in real baseball he comesback and continues to get injured and puts up numbers very much south of what he was putting up.

With OOTP there is no comeback, to be realistic, the player should have a period of injury, then be available again and true CEI's should be very, very limited.

The nice thing is that you can easily edit out CEI and SEI in the injuries.txt file. This is what I have done.

[Hador]

Originally Posted by Raidergoo

Those may not all be CEI's. Some could be a normal injury suffered at the end of a player's career when they decided to retire. I don't think that injury flag ever clears. I think this is a very old bug dating back years.

You know turns out you are right on the injury indicator. Still I went through the history files of all the players that have retired since 2008 and I still found that more than 40 have retired due to career ending injuries. So the problem still exists....

[Hador]

Originally Posted by toxicavenger74

So, a couple of things with CEI's that needs to be realized, some of it is current use of the CEI's.

This is without running the numbers but with real life baseball I would safely assume that at least 40 MLB caliber players had an injury that was significantly detrimental to their career. The problem is that after a rehabilitation period many of the players come back and play and struggle and so we don't see this as a CEI but simply as an injury and a comeback. For example, look at Juan Gonzalez or possibly even Mark Mulder and there are many others of differing abilities. Even Dravecky had a comeback before having to have his arm amputated and therefore having a true CEI. Also, Scott Rolen is a very good example of someone who has not been close to the same as he was before injury. In OOTP this is maybe a CEI, in real baseball he comesback and continues to get injured and puts up numbers very much south of what he was putting up.

With OOTP there is no comeback, to be realistic, the player should have a period of injury, then be available again and true CEI's should be very, very limited.

You are right about injuries being detrimental to a players career however this does happen in OOTP as well. I had a 5* pitcher on my team who had already won 2 Cy Young awards at 25. The next season he suffered a back injury which took him out for 12 months and after that he never really recovered, dropped from 5* to 1* and never won more than 10 games per season again for the remainder of his career.

So I think OOTP does a good job of simulating this (and has been doing so for quite some time). What I think might a problem is that right now 12 months is the maximum injury time. Anything longer seems to be career ending and as a result a couple of injuries (fractured skull, fractured knee, torn tendons, torn ligaments....) are almost guaranteed to result in career ending injuries. Now while this certainly makes sense for a fractured knee it rarely makes sense for a torn ligament. If a player tears a ligament at the age of 24 he will rarely have to retire from playing professional ball.

I agree about the injury file and I will certainly play around with this. It would just be nice if for instance the program would make a difference between the different ages of players. An injury that might require a 35 year old pitcher to retire might just mean sitting out 10-12 months for a 25 year old batter. This is something OOTP does not include in the calculations right now as far as I can tell, or does it?

[falkonisback]

I thought in the feature list for OOTP 9 before its release, I read that players would sometimes try to make a comeback from a CEI. Was that feature omitted before the game was released?

[Bishop]

I'll have to look at CEIs over the course of an historical replay I'm playing with, but I have noticed it seems that the injuries in this version seem to be longer in length than the others. I've had more players league wide with 6+ month long injuries than I ever say in 2007/ v8.

[HH20xx convert]

Originally Posted by Bishop

I'll have to look at CEIs over the course of an historical replay I'm playing with, but I have noticed it seems that the injuries in this version seem to be longer in length than the others. I've had more players league wide with 6+ month long injuries than I ever say in 2007/ v8.

I agree that injuries seem more severe, but not more frequent, in OOTP 9. I think the increased severity is closer to reality--now we need a few 'nagging' injuries that hinder a player through the whole season, only healing up with a full winter's rest.

[Bishop]

The ideal thing would be injuries that may extend longer than the original date, which I think is the nagging injuries you mentioned.

Didn't we have things like that once before? I seem to recall some players getting worse when on the DL with a setback.

[aaronck]

not even halfway into my first season..Jose Reyes and Matt Stairs gone with career ending injuries, as well as one other younger player I can't recall at the moment...I don't want to tweak injuries down yet, but it seems career enders are up a little high

[Markus Heinsohn]

The frequency of CEI has not changed in this version. Since this is a rare event, it can happen 1 time per season, or 20 times... all sample-size issues

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by Raidergoo

I don't think that injury flag ever clears. I think this is a very old bug dating back years.

Actually it does, I just tested it... I have no idea why it didn't in the league of the thread starter

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by Hador

Ok, I have now played two games for a total of 15 seasons or so and I gotta say that the number of career ending injuries is ridiculously high if you have the injury setting on average.

Here is look at just some of the retired players that have suffered career ending injuries by 2014 (started 2008) in my simulation:



And as I said those are only SOME of the players. In total in this sim by 2014 I had OVER 40 players suffer career ending injuries. What makes it even worse is that the majority of those affected seem to be young high potential players.

On my team alone I lost 4 players with a potential of 4* or higher in that time span. From other teams players like Jay Bruce suffered the same fate.

Which brings me to the question: Is it possible that younger players that get called up into the majors in their early 20's have an higher risk of suffering career ending injuries than other players?

Anyway I am wondering whether other players have noticed the same thing because I really am getting to the point where I think somebody needs to look at this.

OK, the injuries in the screenshot were not CEI... some of these players are originally injured in the roster set, and for some reason that flag reactivates itself when they retire. So, it's just a cosmetic issue, but I do not know why it happens yet.

[Hador]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

The frequency of CEI has not changed in this version. Since this is a rare event, it can happen 1 time per season, or 20 times... all sample-size issues

I kinda figured that this is the case....I guess I'll see how things play out when I continue the league.

Still wondering though if could it be that players that start their MLB career in their low 20's, like Jay Bruce, more liable to suffer severe injuries than those that spend more time in the minors before being called up to the majors?

I have started another test league (my 4th overall) today and after 2 years Jay Bruce AGAIN went down with a CEI. That makes it 3 out of 4 leagues where he suffered that fate in the first 3 years. Of course it's also possible that my PC simply hates the guy

[dankrzyz]

Originally Posted by falkonisback

I thought in the feature list for OOTP 9 before its release, I read that players would sometimes try to make a comeback from a CEI. Was that feature omitted before the game was released?

Any word on this, M? Anyone? If it exists, what does it look like when a player does this?

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by dankrzyz

Any word on this, M? Anyone? If it exists, what does it look like when a player does this?

Not yet, will be part of a future patch

[Comedian2004]

I ran a historical simulation from 1901 to 2007 where the computer ran the whole thing. It was an almanac test, where I was saving the entire almanac.

I just searched the player file list and out of the 15,170 players, there were 314 career ending injuries.

That comes out to 2 percent of all players, if I did the math correct.

[PhillieFever]

It was the steroids that caused all of those CEI's.Yeah yeah thats it

[SittingDuck]

Originally Posted by Comedian2004

I ran a historical simulation from 1901 to 2007 where the computer ran the whole thing. It was an almanac test, where I was saving the entire almanac.

I just searched the player file list and out of the 15,170 players, there were 314 career ending injuries.

That comes out to 2 percent of all players, if I did the math correct.

Well, there are possible-CEI injuries (that just become SEIs) and then there are definite CEIs (where the career is destroyed).

Any chance both of these were combined in your stats?

[Hador]

Originally Posted by SittingDuck

Well, there are possible-CEI injuries (that just become SEIs) and then there are definite CEIs (where the career is destroyed).

Are there? So far whenever I got the message about a player going down with a CEI it was DEFINITE and the player subsequently retired.