Ridiculousness of Saves as a metric (again)

Tony M · 06-26-2008, 12:11 PM

I know we had this debate last year or whenever about the three inning save in the 30-3 game, but I was looking at the box score for the Sox-D'backs last night and was wondering why Papelbon got credited a save as we were 5-0 at the time...

It's ridiculous that Hansen had loaded the bases and got two outs and Pap comes in and takes one out and gets the save because the tying run is 'on-deck' - the D'backs needed at least one home run probably to get it close to tying and they couldn't even rely on a sac-fly or sac-bunt to do it with two outs...

Gastric ReFlux · 06-26-2008, 12:24 PM

statheadzzz

CBL-Commish · 06-26-2008, 01:00 PM

People still care about saves?

eriqjaffe · 06-26-2008, 01:09 PM

Great, another thread bashing the metric system.

Tony M · 06-26-2008, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBL-Commish

People still care about saves?

You can't escape it in the media. X came in to get the save.

I don't like any of the 'major' pitching metrics (W, L, SV) because they aren't directly attribituble to the pitcher...

bababui · 06-26-2008, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redsoxford

You can't escape it in the media. X came in to get the save.

I don't like any of the 'major' pitching metrics (W, L, SV) because they aren't directly attribituble to the pitcher...

Nothing the pitcher does is unaffected by the action of some other force. Even walks and SO's are determined by the subjective judgement of an umpire. How is Eric Gregg these days?

Art99 · 07-22-2008, 08:26 PM

Saves are a joke. The only thing saves did was let a group of pitchers not good enough to start make 12 million instead of 1 million a year. To some extent the same is true of the DH.

MorseMoose · 07-22-2008, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art99

Saves are a joke. The only thing saves did was let a group of pitchers not good enough to start make 12 million instead of 1 million a year. To some extent the same is true of the DH.

What a jerk...you have no class do you? Jesus.

ESPN - Longtime Chicago sportswriter Holtzman dies at 81 - MLB

Left-handed Badger · 07-23-2008, 01:44 AM

Pitchers are a waste of time. We should just have a pitching machine out there.

Erik W. · 07-23-2008, 07:12 AM

See, I don't think saves are all that worthless. If the Cardinals had won even half of the saves Isringhausen has blown this year they'd comfortably be in first place.

It's easy to claim that saves are a worthless stat when your team has a reliable closer.

boilermaker · 07-23-2008, 07:26 AM

Now that the All Star Game allegedly "counts", I think the stats accrued during them should, too......which means Eric Gagne's obscene save streak doesn't really exist since Hank Blalock interrupted it.

potatoman · 07-23-2008, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erik W.

See, I don't think saves are all that worthless. If the Cardinals had won even half of the saves Isringhausen has blown this year they'd comfortably be in first place.

It's easy to claim that saves are a worthless stat when your team has a reliable closer.

Also, without Wagner, the Mets blew a 3 run lead yesterday to give up 6 runs in the 9th.

Go Tribe · 07-24-2008, 02:30 AM

quality start is just as ridiculous

could go the whole year with a 4.5 ERA and 100% quality starts, not to mention a pissed off bullpen that needs to pitch 3 innings every start

Left-handed Badger · 07-26-2008, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boilermaker

Now that the All Star Game allegedly "counts"

Yeah, speaking of things in baseball that are ridiculous.

Is there anybody involved in baseball that thinks this is a good idea, besides Bud Selig.

06-26-2008, 12:11 PM	#1
Tony M Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Here Posts: 6,156	Ridiculousness of Saves as a metric (again) I know we had this debate last year or whenever about the three inning save in the 30-3 game, but I was looking at the box score for the Sox-D'backs last night and was wondering why Papelbon got credited a save as we were 5-0 at the time... It's ridiculous that Hansen had loaded the bases and got two outs and Pap comes in and takes one out and gets the save because the tying run is 'on-deck' - the D'backs needed at least one home run probably to get it close to tying and they couldn't even rely on a sac-fly or sac-bunt to do it with two outs... __________________ This signature is intentionally blank

06-26-2008, 01:00 PM	#3
CBL-Commish All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,999	People still care about saves? __________________ For the best in O's news: Orioles' Hangout.com

06-26-2008, 01:09 PM	#4
eriqjaffe Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2003 Location: Under The Christmas Fish Posts: 7,647	Great, another thread bashing the metric system. __________________

07-23-2008, 01:44 AM	#9
Left-handed Badger Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: at the altar of the baseball god praying for middle infield that can catch the ball Posts: 2,036	Pitchers are a waste of time. We should just have a pitching machine out there. __________________ -Left-handed groundball specialist -Strikeouts are for wimps

07-23-2008, 07:12 AM	#10
Erik W. Global Moderator Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Rivière-du-Loup, Qc Posts: 4,615	See, I don't think saves are all that worthless. If the Cardinals had won even half of the saves Isringhausen has blown this year they'd comfortably be in first place. It's easy to claim that saves are a worthless stat when your team has a reliable closer. __________________ Free agent baseball fan. Let's go (insert team name here)!

06-26-2008, 12:24 PM	#2
Gastric ReFlux Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Member #3409 Posts: 8,350	statheadzzz

07-22-2008, 08:26 PM	#7
Art99 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 242	Saves are a joke. The only thing saves did was let a group of pitchers not good enough to start make 12 million instead of 1 million a year. To some extent the same is true of the DH.

07-23-2008, 07:26 AM	#11
boilermaker All Star Starter Join Date: May 2004 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,956	Now that the All Star Game allegedly "counts", I think the stats accrued during them should, too......which means Eric Gagne's obscene save streak doesn't really exist since Hank Blalock interrupted it.

07-24-2008, 02:30 AM	#13
Go Tribe All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 1,534 Infractions: 1/0 (0)	quality start is just as ridiculous could go the whole year with a 4.5 ERA and 100% quality starts, not to mention a pissed off bullpen that needs to pitch 3 innings every start