Absurd Free Agent signings

Erithtotl · 06-19-2008, 11:37 AM

I've finished one season and for the most part I've very much enjoyed my experience. But after the 1st season (MLB rosters) I noticed some of the free agents asking for absurd money. Hoping that their asking prices would drop to realistic levels, I checked after the FA period, and saw a couple of ridiculous ones:

Josh Bard, after a career year where he hit .280/.351/.424 with 15 HR in 139 games, signed for 4 years, at 15.5M a year.

Tike Redmond, who hit .310/.362/.466 in 104 games, signed for 4 years at 16M a year.

42 year old Moises Alou after hitting an impressive .364/.387/.693, in only 25 games, signed a 3 year deal at 15M a year.

Mark DeRossa, hitting .303/.356/.477, 4 years at 15M a year.

There are more as well.

Now I know that positional scarcity and too much case can result in inflated FA contracts at times, but this is ridiculous!

Markus Heinsohn · 06-19-2008, 11:40 AM

The AI adjusts its demands on the $$ that is available... if there is more cash flow, then the demands are higher. MLB had the same problem a couple of years ago

dankrzyz · 06-19-2008, 11:41 AM

And this isn't realistic? (See also: Gary Matthews Jr's last contract)

phenom · 06-19-2008, 11:42 AM

What's the problem?

Signed,

Scott Boras

Ruthian23 · 06-19-2008, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

The AI adjusts its demands on the $$ that is available... if there is more cash flow, then the demands are higher. MLB had the same problem a couple of years ago

Markus,

While what you say is true, I think the examples above are a bit extreme. I don't think anyone would be giving Mark DeRosa, a 34 year old guy with very average career stats, 15 million a year, Tike Redman, a guy with a career OPS+ of 82 who has only played full time once (Twice in this example) 15 million a year for four years, Josh Bard, a career backup C with mediocre stats 62 million over four years, and ESPECIALLY Moises Alou, who would be 42 in this example, 3 years and 45 million after he plays 25 games the year before. There's adjusting to the amount of money you have, which is good, and then there's this, which isn't. Juan Pierre got super money because of his great speed, even though it was stupid. Gary Matthews Jr. got the big bucks because of his defense, even though it was stupid. But there's no reason whatsoever that any MLB GM would give out money like that to those four players.

cody8200 · 06-19-2008, 11:50 AM

Realistically, it actually sounds like these guys all had pretty good years. If the team they sign for is in Win Now mode and has money to spend, I could see this happening.

Erithtotl · 06-19-2008, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dankrzyz

And this isn't realistic? (See also: Gary Matthews Jr's last contract)

I think that if the game engine is compensation for cash vs. player availability, then the problem is there is too much cash in the game as it is set up by default. I think this may indeed be the case, as I took over the Reds and my starting budget was over 100M. Even after doubling scounting, the left me with over 90M for salaries, which is way too much for the Reds. If finished the season with like 31M in profit.

There is no circumstance after which 30+ year old players coming off good but not great seasons are going to get paid 15-17M a year next season. It may be by default that the game engine is putting too much emphasis on 'current year' stats as well.

Ruthian23 · 06-19-2008, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erithtotl

I think that if the game engine is compensation for cash vs. player availability, then the problem is there is too much cash in the game as it is set up by default. I think this may indeed be the case, as I took over the Reds and my starting budget was over 100M. Even after doubling scounting, the left me with over 90M for salaries, which is way too much for the Reds. If finished the season with like 31M in profit.

There is no circumstance after which 30+ year old players coming off good but not great seasons are going to get paid 15-17M a year next season. It may be by default that the game engine is putting too much emphasis on 'current year' stats as well.

I'm curious, did Alou only play 25 games because he was hurt, because that would make that one even worse.

Markus Heinsohn · 06-19-2008, 11:55 AM

I see no issues here... when teams have cash, they spend it, it's that easy

Ruthian23 · 06-19-2008, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

I see no issues here... when teams have cash, they spend it, it's that easy

25 games...42 years old...15 million a year for THREE years? I love the game, Markus, and I'll certainly continue you play it and I don't want to be labeled a complainer by any means, because I think your game is by far the best baseball game on earth, but I'm kind of surprised that you don't see that as at least a bit odd.

Markus Heinsohn · 06-19-2008, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruthian23

25 games...42 years old...15 million a year for THREE years? I love the game, Markus, and I'll certainly continue you play it and I don't want to be labeled a complainer by any means, because I think your game is by far the best baseball game on earth, but I'm kind of surprised that you don't see that as at least a bit odd.

There was probably a bidding war on him, and then some team decided to add another year. I think this may happen in real life as well...

umwol13 · 06-19-2008, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruthian23

Markus,

While what you say is true, I think the examples above are a bit extreme. I don't think anyone would be giving Mark DeRosa, a 34 year old guy with very average career stats, 15 million a year, Tike Redman, a guy with a career OPS+ of 82 who has only played full time once (Twice in this example) 15 million a year for four years, Josh Bard, a career backup C with mediocre stats 62 million over four years, and ESPECIALLY Moises Alou, who would be 42 in this example, 3 years and 45 million after he plays 25 games the year before. There's adjusting to the amount of money you have, which is good, and then there's this, which isn't. Juan Pierre got super money because of his great speed, even though it was stupid. Gary Matthews Jr. got the big bucks because of his defense, even though it was stupid. But there's no reason whatsoever that any MLB GM would give out money like that to those four players.

To go a step further, I also have to wonder how much value the AI is placing on age and past performance. I can understand if a guy with a short playing history goes off in the prime of his career is rewarded with a huge contract (see Mathews JR) but established .250 hitters on their way out of the league who somehow goes off would never realistiscally get that much money much less a long term contract. Perhaps the AI can be tweaked to adjust for this stuff?

Jose Cardenal's Afro · 06-19-2008, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phenom

What's the problem?

Signed,

Scott Boras

I hate that guy.

"I bet many owners are willing to take a chance on players and give them extra money. Its good for the sport."

Signed

Al Davis

Erithtotl · 06-19-2008, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruthian23

I'm curious, did Alou only play 25 games because he was hurt, because that would make that one even worse.

Yes he tore a hamstring and missed 8 months.

timlowery · 06-19-2008, 12:11 PM

It's odd to us, but it's very similar to real life... Look at the money the Tigers threw at Gary Sheffield, Kenny Rogers, and several other 1990s all-stars. (Don't get me started on Pudge). It's a roll of the dice, and if one team doesn't pay the high dollar salary, someone else will. I think Markus' game reflects the economics of baseball better than anything else.

Zubes · 06-19-2008, 12:14 PM

you know you can always change the "average" amounts for the contracts in the game setup where it lists susperstar type player, average player, etc

rogmax11 · 06-19-2008, 12:16 PM

There is no such thing as an absurd FA signing.

Sincerely, Barry Zito

Erithtotl · 06-19-2008, 12:18 PM

Zito, Sheffield, Pudge, these were all bad signings, for sure.

But they were also players with long successful track records, and peaks much higher than any of the examples given.

Again, Moises Alou, 42 years old, coming off a season in which he played 25 games and missed 8 months due to a torn hamstring, getting a 3 year/15M a year deal. This is utterly impossible to justify as 'realistic'

PotatoPeeler · 06-19-2008, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

I see no issues here... when teams have cash, they spend it, it's that easy

What are you talking about? I don't understand what you are saying...

Signed,
Jeffrey Loria and Carl Pohlad

HolyCow98 · 06-19-2008, 12:24 PM

The only part of the Derosa signing that bothers me a little is the fact...stat-wise....he was a never was....and due to age...he is a never will be.

He has value....he can play many positions...and should be able to hit above his weight....but with little to no power...and not a ton of run production.

The Zito's of the world at least had some track record that could fool a GM into a bad contract.

For me...its still not that big of a deal...but it should seem like the AI should either care about track record or ratings...before it doles out that can of money.

06-19-2008, 11:37 AM	#1
Erithtotl Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 330	Absurd Free Agent signings I've finished one season and for the most part I've very much enjoyed my experience. But after the 1st season (MLB rosters) I noticed some of the free agents asking for absurd money. Hoping that their asking prices would drop to realistic levels, I checked after the FA period, and saw a couple of ridiculous ones: Josh Bard, after a career year where he hit .280/.351/.424 with 15 HR in 139 games, signed for 4 years, at 15.5M a year. Tike Redmond, who hit .310/.362/.466 in 104 games, signed for 4 years at 16M a year. 42 year old Moises Alou after hitting an impressive .364/.387/.693, in only 25 games, signed a 3 year deal at 15M a year. Mark DeRossa, hitting .303/.356/.477, 4 years at 15M a year. There are more as well. Now I know that positional scarcity and too much case can result in inflated FA contracts at times, but this is ridiculous!

06-19-2008, 11:42 AM	#4
phenom Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Near the Great Wall. On the GOOD side. Posts: 3,774	What's the problem? Signed, Scott Boras __________________ reported

06-19-2008, 12:11 PM	#15
timlowery Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 261	It's odd to us, but it's very similar to real life... Look at the money the Tigers threw at Gary Sheffield, Kenny Rogers, and several other 1990s all-stars. (Don't get me started on Pudge). It's a roll of the dice, and if one team doesn't pay the high dollar salary, someone else will. I think Markus' game reflects the economics of baseball better than anything else. __________________ Timothy Lowery Proud Detroit Tigers fan since 1979!!! It's not one thing after another, it's the same thing all the time....

06-19-2008, 12:14 PM	#16
Zubes Major Leagues Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 361	you know you can always change the "average" amounts for the contracts in the game setup where it lists susperstar type player, average player, etc __________________ Phil Zuber Beyond the Ivy - Commish, Twins GM Stars and Stripes Baseball League - Cubs GM Bricks and Ivy - Orioles GM Sim Coalition - co-founder

06-19-2008, 12:24 PM	#20
HolyCow98 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Douglasville, GA Posts: 2,735	The only part of the Derosa signing that bothers me a little is the fact...stat-wise....he was a never was....and due to age...he is a never will be. He has value....he can play many positions...and should be able to hit above his weight....but with little to no power...and not a ton of run production. The Zito's of the world at least had some track record that could fool a GM into a bad contract. For me...its still not that big of a deal...but it should seem like the AI should either care about track record or ratings...before it doles out that can of money. __________________ NPBL Enjoying its 60th season Georgia GM

06-19-2008, 11:40 AM	#2
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,803	The AI adjusts its demands on the $$ that is available... if there is more cash flow, then the demands are higher. MLB had the same problem a couple of years ago

06-19-2008, 11:41 AM	#3
dankrzyz Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 305	And this isn't realistic? (See also: Gary Matthews Jr's last contract)

06-19-2008, 11:50 AM	#6
cody8200 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 2,436	Realistically, it actually sounds like these guys all had pretty good years. If the team they sign for is in Win Now mode and has money to spend, I could see this happening.

06-19-2008, 11:55 AM	#9
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,803	I see no issues here... when teams have cash, they spend it, it's that easy

06-19-2008, 12:16 PM	#17
rogmax11 All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,320	There is no such thing as an absurd FA signing. Sincerely, Barry Zito

06-19-2008, 12:18 PM	#18
Erithtotl Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 330	Zito, Sheffield, Pudge, these were all bad signings, for sure. But they were also players with long successful track records, and peaks much higher than any of the examples given. Again, Moises Alou, 42 years old, coming off a season in which he played 25 games and missed 8 months due to a torn hamstring, getting a 3 year/15M a year deal. This is utterly impossible to justify as 'realistic'