Hip hop bad for the NFL?

[<Pion>]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7343980?MSNHPHMA

You get one NFL Truth today. Watching Chad Johnson and Larry Johnson undermine their respective head coaches, Marvin Lewis and Herm Edwards, on Sunday gave me a singular focus, forced me to contemplate an uncomfortable truth.


African-American football players caught up in the rebellion and buffoonery of hip hop culture have given NFL owners and coaches a justifiable reason to whiten their rosters. That will be the legacy left by Chad, Larry and Tank Johnson, Pacman Jones, Terrell Owens, Michael Vick and all the other football bojanglers.

In terms of opportunity for American-born black athletes, they're going to leave the game in far worse shape than they found it.

...

[PotatoPeeler]

At least someone in the media finally said it.

[cephasjames]

This, I'm sure, will be a touchy subject, but I can see the point. I work in a school that deals heavily with inner city kids that are deeply intrenched in the 'hip hop culture' and I can see how that culture tends to have a fairly strong negative effect on people.

[Skipaway]

So what about McNabb?

[Prodigal Son]

The hip hop culture is a symptom of the "problem," not the problem.

I put problem in quotations because it's not really a problem. What's wrong with a player yelling at a coach? OH MY GOD HE'S QUESTIONING HIS AUTHORITAY! Really, a player yelling at a coach isn't damaging the fabric of society, or breaking any laws; it's just going against what certain people say is The Right Way to Do Things (tm).

It's no big deal. People who grow up in the culture of the lower-class have different ways of communicating. They have a more straightforward, argumentative, passionate style. Notions of respect and suboordination are expressed differently than in the dominant middle-class culture. People don't say, "Excuse me, would you like to shut the door for me please?" They say, "Yo, shut the damned door, man!" A player doesn't run off to the corner of the bench and frown and keep everything in, he tells the person he's upset with. Isn't that a good thing? It's one blow up, you get things off your chest, you patch things up later and go about your business like adults, having cleared the slate with there being no questions about where each person stands.

There is a great anthology out there called Strangers in Paradise that is well worth a read, particularly the essay by Bell Hooks. It examines the differences in acceptable social norms (and particularly communication and group behavior) between the dominant middle-class culture and the way the lower-class does things. I think anyone who wants to criticize lower-class culture should read it first.

(This isn't to say all folks in the NFL are from the lower class; it's just to say that the background of the average NFL player is a lot different than the background of the average NFL viewer or NFL pundit.)

[QuestGAV]

Yeah those uppity negroes should know their place.

[CMH]

What a b.s. excuse.

What about the number of white suburban kids that listen to Hip Hop all the time?

Please with this nonsense.

[CMH]

Oh, how surprising. The article is written by a black male who probably doesn't like hip hop music.

This is a one-sided article. He's basically stereotyping black players that look like Chad Johnson and saying, "Since he's outlandish, loud, and proud, he's a typical black man that loves hip hop music and doesn't respect authority."

I guarentee that if you took the number of black players in the NFL and compared that to the number that have had rifts with their coach the number would be amazingly similar to non-black athletes.

[ctorg]

Originally Posted by Prodigal Son

The hip hop culture is a symptom of the "problem," not the problem.

I put problem in quotations because it's not really a problem. What's wrong with a player yelling at a coach? OH MY GOD HE'S QUESTIONING HIS AUTHORITAY! Really, a player yelling at a coach isn't damaging the fabric of society, or breaking any laws; it's just going against what certain people say is The Right Way to Do Things (tm).

It's no big deal. People who grow up in the culture of the lower-class have different ways of communicating. They have a more straightforward, argumentative, passionate style. Notions of respect and suboordination are expressed differently than in the dominant middle-class culture. People don't say, "Excuse me, would you like to shut the door for me please?" They say, "Yo, shut the damned door, man!" A player doesn't run off to the corner of the bench and frown and keep everything in, he tells the person he's upset with. Isn't that a good thing? It's one blow up, you get things off your chest, you patch things up later and go about your business like adults, having cleared the slate with there being no questions about where each person stands.

There is a great anthology out there called Strangers in Paradise that is well worth a read, particularly the essay by Bell Hooks. It examines the differences in acceptable social norms (and particularly communication and group behavior) between the dominant middle-class culture and the way the lower-class does things. I think anyone who wants to criticize lower-class culture should read it first.

(This isn't to say all folks in the NFL are from the lower class; it's just to say that the background of the average NFL player is a lot different than the background of the average NFL viewer or NFL pundit.)

This is very accurate. I should check out that book, because it's actually relevant to my life.

[Muppetus Galacticus]

If by NFL you mean ears then I have to say yes.

[Prodigal Son]

Originally Posted by ctorg

This is very accurate. I should check out that book, because it's actually relevant to my life.

Here's the info: Amazon Link

As a working class student at a fancy pants school, it's the only book I've read that does justice to the dilemmas and difficulties of making the adjustments (or deciding not to make the adjustments) necessary to fit in with the culture of academia. Bell Hooks' essay is phenomenally accurate to my experiences.

[The Professor]

Hooks is prolific and, while not my favorite writer (most of what I've read is too postmodern or too radical for my tastes), is sometimes vastly intriguing. I remember a friend reading We Real Cool and discussing - briefly - some of her ideas. I've not read the essay mentioned above...if I ever get through the piles of books I've got in front of me, I may check it out.

She's a leftist so I'm sure to agree with her!!!! [/brainwashed radical]

[Lastplaneout]

Originally Posted by Prodigal Son

The hip hop culture is a symptom of the "problem," not the problem.

I put problem in quotations because it's not really a problem. What's wrong with a player yelling at a coach? OH MY GOD HE'S QUESTIONING HIS AUTHORITAY! Really, a player yelling at a coach isn't damaging the fabric of society, or breaking any laws; it's just going against what certain people say is The Right Way to Do Things (tm).

It's no big deal. People who grow up in the culture of the lower-class have different ways of communicating. They have a more straightforward, argumentative, passionate style. Notions of respect and suboordination are expressed differently than in the dominant middle-class culture. People don't say, "Excuse me, would you like to shut the door for me please?" They say, "Yo, shut the damned door, man!" A player doesn't run off to the corner of the bench and frown and keep everything in, he tells the person he's upset with. Isn't that a good thing? It's one blow up, you get things off your chest, you patch things up later and go about your business like adults, having cleared the slate with there being no questions about where each person stands.

There is a great anthology out there called Strangers in Paradise that is well worth a read, particularly the essay by Bell Hooks. It examines the differences in acceptable social norms (and particularly communication and group behavior) between the dominant middle-class culture and the way the lower-class does things. I think anyone who wants to criticize lower-class culture should read it first.

(This isn't to say all folks in the NFL are from the lower class; it's just to say that the background of the average NFL player is a lot different than the background of the average NFL viewer or NFL pundit.)

Right on. Personally, I think that making value judgments about social norms is always a risky proposition. Clearly things that work in one subculture can become completely invalid in another.

I'll have to read that bell hooks essay. I don't always agree with everything that she writes, but it is almost always thought provoking.

[Lastplaneout]

Or what the The Prof said.

[Left-handed Badger]

Originally Posted by Prodigal Son

The hip hop culture is a symptom of the "problem," not the problem.

I put problem in quotations because it's not really a problem. What's wrong with a player yelling at a coach? OH MY GOD HE'S QUESTIONING HIS AUTHORITAY! Really, a player yelling at a coach isn't damaging the fabric of society, or breaking any laws; it's just going against what certain people say is The Right Way to Do Things (tm).

It's no big deal. People who grow up in the culture of the lower-class have different ways of communicating. They have a more straightforward, argumentative, passionate style. Notions of respect and suboordination are expressed differently than in the dominant middle-class culture. People don't say, "Excuse me, would you like to shut the door for me please?" They say, "Yo, shut the damned door, man!" A player doesn't run off to the corner of the bench and frown and keep everything in, he tells the person he's upset with. Isn't that a good thing? It's one blow up, you get things off your chest, you patch things up later and go about your business like adults, having cleared the slate with there being no questions about where each person stands.

There is a great anthology out there called Strangers in Paradise that is well worth a read, particularly the essay by Bell Hooks. It examines the differences in acceptable social norms (and particularly communication and group behavior) between the dominant middle-class culture and the way the lower-class does things. I think anyone who wants to criticize lower-class culture should read it first.

(This isn't to say all folks in the NFL are from the lower class; it's just to say that the background of the average NFL player is a lot different than the background of the average NFL viewer or NFL pundit.)

Not disagreeing with you, necessarily. But, it is not an excuse. Blow ups are alright, but I believe in keeping those things private. You keep it amongst those involved. You dont go popping off to the media like it happens a lot nowadays. I'm not nostalgic for the old days of the coach is a god. But, I get a little nervous about a team discipline falling to pot and resulting in anarchy. I feel an arguments with a coach should be kept in his office. That goes for the vice versa situation too, by the way.

[Carlton_Willey]

Originally Posted by Prodigal Son

The hip hop culture is a symptom of the "problem," not the problem.

I put problem in quotations because it's not really a problem. What's wrong with a player yelling at a coach? OH MY GOD HE'S QUESTIONING HIS AUTHORITAY! Really, a player yelling at a coach isn't damaging the fabric of society, or breaking any laws; it's just going against what certain people say is The Right Way to Do Things (tm).

It's no big deal. People who grow up in the culture of the lower-class have different ways of communicating. They have a more straightforward, argumentative, passionate style. Notions of respect and suboordination are expressed differently than in the dominant middle-class culture. People don't say, "Excuse me, would you like to shut the door for me please?" They say, "Yo, shut the damned door, man!" A player doesn't run off to the corner of the bench and frown and keep everything in, he tells the person he's upset with. Isn't that a good thing? It's one blow up, you get things off your chest, you patch things up later and go about your business like adults, having cleared the slate with there being no questions about where each person stands.

There is a great anthology out there called Strangers in Paradise that is well worth a read, particularly the essay by Bell Hooks. It examines the differences in acceptable social norms (and particularly communication and group behavior) between the dominant middle-class culture and the way the lower-class does things. I think anyone who wants to criticize lower-class culture should read it first.

(This isn't to say all folks in the NFL are from the lower class; it's just to say that the background of the average NFL player is a lot different than the background of the average NFL viewer or NFL pundit.)

As someone married to a fifth grade teacher in a lower middle class elementary school in the South, who also sub teaches there, I understand what's being said, but strongly disagree with the implication to accept this behavior.

Teachers (good ones that is) make it a point to say, "That's not way we say/do things in school." Preparing kids for success in the real world is the highest function of teaching. Making allowances for what's going on at home is one thing, using at as an excuse for bad behavior is not.

Today's paper has a quote from the late Skip Prosser about his HS teaching days, "Kids will be as bad as you allow them to be."

Take the time to not allow kids to be bad. They're worth it. All of them.

[Carlton_Willey]

BTW, let's not forget Hip Hop culture will go the way of the Zoot Suit.

[Jason Moyer]

Originally Posted by Carlton_Willey

BTW, let's not forget Hip Hop culture will go the way of the Zoot Suit.

The Zoot Suit was mainstream for over 20 years?

[Muppetus Galacticus]

The Zoot Suit needs to comeback!

[RchW]

Originally Posted by YankeePride

Oh, how surprising. The article is written by a black male who probably doesn't like hip hop music.

This is a one-sided article. He's basically stereotyping black players that look like Chad Johnson and saying, "Since he's outlandish, loud, and proud, he's a typical black man that loves hip hop music and doesn't respect authority."

I guarentee that if you took the number of black players in the NFL and compared that to the number that have had rifts with their coach the number would be amazingly similar to non-black athletes.

Don't shoot the messenger. I got a different message from this. He is pointing out (correctly IMO) that Football teams as with all businesses will make decisions that help their business. Whether racist or not, if certain players are perceived to be bad for business they will get cut less slack. Or just get cut.

It may even go far enough that coaches and scouts will favor a personality type(white or black) over raw talent. Any player or agent who doesn't get this is not paying attention.

I agree, black players probably don't have any more problems percentage wise vs non-blacks. As with all groups a small percentage of that group often serve to (incorrectly) define the group. Ask lawyers, doctors, Muslims, Christian priests and so on.

Also this was an opinion piece, not reportage. As such it is expected to be one-sided.