Useful historical books, etc.

Dr. P.R. Park III · 08-12-2007, 09:13 AM

Friends,

Could you please post your favorite websites/books, etc, that offer extensive information on various historical leagues, but also the game and business itself in the United States?

Kelric · 08-12-2007, 01:28 PM

The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is Bill James' Historical Baseball Abstract. It's probably not as detailed as you'd like, but it'll give you an overview of the history of the game decade by decade.

Then there's BaseballLibrary.com, Baseball-Almanac.com, Baseball-reference.com of course for the statistical side, even wikipedia can give you historical information with a little searching.

timlowery · 09-26-2007, 12:47 PM

Here's a great site on 19th century baseball. Gives you a good feel for the beginnings of the game. Helps you to understand the economics that existed in baseball when the two major leagues got started.

http://www.19cbaseball.com/

Le Grande Orange · 09-26-2007, 02:48 PM

It terms of financial data for MLB, both past and present, I highly recommend the following web sites. They contain a variety of data which would likely be very useful. For anyone who hasn't seen these sites before, you should find them quite interesting.

SABR's Business of Baseball Committee

Here you can find many of the CBAs between the players and owners; specifically, you can find the following on this page:

1970 Basic Agreement
1976 Basic Agreement
1990-1993 Basic Agreement
1997-2001 Basic Agreement
2003-2006 Basic Agreement
2007-2011 Basic Agreement

Also worth checking out are the committee's Outside the Lines newsletters. The more recent ones contain some articles with good details about the salaries and finances of past years. The list of newsletters available can be found on this page. Below are the issues and article titles I would recommend as being very helpful resources:

2007-2
Age, Experience, and Salary During the Era of Integration
The Dollar Value of the Last Piece of the Puzzle

2007-1
Fair Pay for Fair Play: A Preliminary Analysis of Race-Based Wages in MLB and the Negro Leagues

2006-2
Salary Arbitration: A Burden or a Benefit?
Do Players Outperform in Their Free Agent Year?

2006-1
Purchasing Pennants: The New York Yankees Then and Now
Part 3: Player Performance

2005-3
Purchasing Pennants: The New York Yankees Then and Now
Part 2: Salaries

2005-2
Purchasing Pennants: The New York Yankees Then and Now
Part 1: Yankee Revenues and Expenses

Rodney Fort's Sports Business Data Pages

Check out the material available under the MLB section — you can find data on income and expenses, payroll, player salaries, and more. When you first open the site, follow the "Sports Business Data" link in the left pane to open up the page with the different sports sections listed.

The Biz of Baseball

Lots of great material here also. Try the "Articles and Opinons" and "BoB Documents" links in particular.

Super70s Baseball

Check out its major league finances section. While much of the data can be found on the previously mentioned sites, it still has a few useful pieces of its own worth checking out.

Nukester · 09-26-2007, 06:47 PM

Another great book that I use is the "20th Century Baseball Chronicle".

Mach_1 · 09-26-2007, 08:05 PM

Besides some of the other books mentioned, I also enjoy -

The Great Encyclopedia of Nineteenth Century Major League Baseball

and

The Beer and Whiskey League (An Illustrated History of the American Association).

spark240 · 09-27-2007, 12:30 AM

The new edition of the Encyclopedia of Minor League Baseball came out recently. 1876-2006!

ctorg · 10-25-2007, 09:09 AM

The publisher McFarland has a huge selection of books about baseball that contain information mostly unavailable elsewhere. They even have stats from the women's league AAGPBL!

http://www.mcfarlandpub.com/searches...ure%2FBaseball

Renner · 10-26-2007, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctorg

The publisher McFarland has a huge selection of books about baseball that contain information mostly unavailable elsewhere. They even have stats from the women's league AAGPBL!

http://www.mcfarlandpub.com/searches...ure%2FBaseball

Good stuff. I'd get about 20 if they weren't going for $35 per book !!

ctorg · 10-26-2007, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renner

Good stuff. I'd get about 20 if they weren't going for $35 per book !!

I know what you mean!

But a number of them can be found used on Amazon or in other places. I got a great one that way that gave stats and info for the majority of ballparks used by pro baseball in North America. It was outdated (published in 1988) but had lots of great stuff about early parks. It cost me like $15 used.

Renner · 10-26-2007, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctorg

I know what you mean!

But a number of them can be found used on Amazon or in other places. I got a great one that way that gave stats and info for the majority of ballparks used by pro baseball in North America. It was outdated (published in 1988) but had lots of great stuff about early parks. It cost me like $15 used.

I'm a big fan of the early 20th century era and there's some great bios there. I think amazon is worth a shot.

ctorg · 10-26-2007, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renner

I'm a big fan of the early 20th century era and there's some great bios there. I think amazon is worth a shot.

If you use the ISBN of the book (the identifying number, which McFarland gives), you can sometimes go to used book stores - depending on the technical quality of the store - and see if they have it in stock there as well. These aren't bestsellers, so you kind of have to get a little lucky to find them, but they are out there.

eBay might even have a few.

thehatfield · 11-11-2007, 01:12 AM

Someone from here (I'm ashamed to admit I forget whom) recommended Harold Seymour's two books - Baseball: The Early Years and Baseball: The Golden Age. While they can be very dry and have some outdated perspectives since they were first published in the early 60s (I believe), the end result is a great knowledge base for a lot of historical aspects of the game.

Kelric · 11-11-2007, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple Cowboy

Someone from here (I'm ashamed to admit I forget whom) recommended Harold Seymour's two books - Baseball: The Early Years and Baseball: The Golden Age. While they can be very dry and have some outdated perspectives since they were first published in the early 60s (I believe), the end result is a great knowledge base for a lot of historical aspects of the game.

For somewhat outdated perspectives, read Joe DiMaggio's Baseball For Everyone and Al Hirshberg's The Red Sox: The Bean and The Cod. Enjoyed reading them (especially the Red Sox one), but it's amazing how far the business of building a baseball team has come along since those time periods.

And I keep meaning to put together that Bean And The Cod league/dynasty report but I never feel like I can do such things justice. I always come up with great ideas, but don't execute them as well as I always want to.

The Professor · 11-13-2007, 07:29 PM

I've recommended the Seymour and Voigt books to people fairly regularly. Dated, but excellent starting points. Ben Rader's Baseball is the best, succinct, general history out there.

For the business angle, anything by Andrew Zimbalist is worthwhile - May The Best Team Win and Baseball and Billions. See also the classic Lords of the Realm by John Helyar and Marvin Miller's rather self-serving A Whole Different Ball Game. Neil Sullivan's The Dodgers Move West is the best book about the infamous move (IMO) and is worth its weight in gold in revealing the behind-the-scenes workings of baseball economics c.1950s-1960s.

Only the Ball Was White by Robert Peterson is the classic starting point for black baseball. Neil Lanctot's Negro League Baseball: The Rise and Ruin of a Black Institution is quite good. For Latinos, Playing America's Game: Baseball, Latinos, and the Color Line by Adrian Burgos Jr. is excellent. Also, Viva Baseball! by Sam Regalado. See also: Shades of Glory by Lawrence Hogan, Beyond the Shadow of the Senators by Brad Snyder and Bruce Adelson's excellent Brushing Back Jim Crow about the integration of the minors.

McFarland is a great place to look for histories of minor leagues as well as obscure (and generally superficial) biographies. Other than a few strong works on the old PCL, there really isn't a lot of "great" material on the minors out there -- but for OOTP purposes, the McFarland publications are perfect.

thehatfield · 11-15-2007, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Professor

I've recommended the Seymour and Voigt books to people fairly regularly. Dated, but excellent starting points. Ben Rader's Baseball is the best, succinct, general history out there.

Thanks Prof... I think it was you. The Early Years especially I really enjoyed.

08-12-2007, 09:13 AM	#1
Dr. P.R. Park III All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 974	Useful historical books, etc. Friends, Could you please post your favorite websites/books, etc, that offer extensive information on various historical leagues, but also the game and business itself in the United States?

09-26-2007, 12:47 PM	#3
timlowery Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 261	Here's a great site on 19th century baseball. Gives you a good feel for the beginnings of the game. Helps you to understand the economics that existed in baseball when the two major leagues got started. http://www.19cbaseball.com/ __________________ Timothy Lowery Proud Detroit Tigers fan since 1979!!! It's not one thing after another, it's the same thing all the time....

10-25-2007, 09:09 AM	#8
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	The publisher McFarland has a huge selection of books about baseball that contain information mostly unavailable elsewhere. They even have stats from the women's league AAGPBL! http://www.mcfarlandpub.com/searches...ure%2FBaseball __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

11-11-2007, 01:12 AM	#13
thehatfield All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: dirty jerz Posts: 1,339	Someone from here (I'm ashamed to admit I forget whom) recommended Harold Seymour's two books - Baseball: The Early Years and Baseball: The Golden Age. While they can be very dry and have some outdated perspectives since they were first published in the early 60s (I believe), the end result is a great knowledge base for a lot of historical aspects of the game. __________________ AFBL - Maryland Bridegrooms SBC - Western Suburbs Magpies no pressure no problem

11-13-2007, 07:29 PM	#15
The Professor Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: East of East Posts: 3,020	I've recommended the Seymour and Voigt books to people fairly regularly. Dated, but excellent starting points. Ben Rader's Baseball is the best, succinct, general history out there. For the business angle, anything by Andrew Zimbalist is worthwhile - May The Best Team Win and Baseball and Billions. See also the classic Lords of the Realm by John Helyar and Marvin Miller's rather self-serving A Whole Different Ball Game. Neil Sullivan's The Dodgers Move West is the best book about the infamous move (IMO) and is worth its weight in gold in revealing the behind-the-scenes workings of baseball economics c.1950s-1960s. Only the Ball Was White by Robert Peterson is the classic starting point for black baseball. Neil Lanctot's Negro League Baseball: The Rise and Ruin of a Black Institution is quite good. For Latinos, Playing America's Game: Baseball, Latinos, and the Color Line by Adrian Burgos Jr. is excellent. Also, Viva Baseball! by Sam Regalado. See also: Shades of Glory by Lawrence Hogan, Beyond the Shadow of the Senators by Brad Snyder and Bruce Adelson's excellent Brushing Back Jim Crow about the integration of the minors. McFarland is a great place to look for histories of minor leagues as well as obscure (and generally superficial) biographies. Other than a few strong works on the old PCL, there really isn't a lot of "great" material on the minors out there -- but for OOTP purposes, the McFarland publications are perfect. __________________ History isn't really about the past - settling old scores. It's about defining the present and who we are."

08-12-2007, 01:28 PM	#2
Kelric Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Greater Boston Area Posts: 3,992	The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is Bill James' Historical Baseball Abstract. It's probably not as detailed as you'd like, but it'll give you an overview of the history of the game decade by decade. Then there's BaseballLibrary.com, Baseball-Almanac.com, Baseball-reference.com of course for the statistical side, even wikipedia can give you historical information with a little searching.

09-26-2007, 02:48 PM	#4
Le Grande Orange Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Up There Posts: 15,644	It terms of financial data for MLB, both past and present, I highly recommend the following web sites. They contain a variety of data which would likely be very useful. For anyone who hasn't seen these sites before, you should find them quite interesting. SABR's Business of Baseball Committee Here you can find many of the CBAs between the players and owners; specifically, you can find the following on this page: 1970 Basic Agreement 1976 Basic Agreement 1990-1993 Basic Agreement 1997-2001 Basic Agreement 2003-2006 Basic Agreement 2007-2011 Basic Agreement Also worth checking out are the committee's Outside the Lines newsletters. The more recent ones contain some articles with good details about the salaries and finances of past years. The list of newsletters available can be found on this page. Below are the issues and article titles I would recommend as being very helpful resources: 2007-2 Age, Experience, and Salary During the Era of Integration The Dollar Value of the Last Piece of the Puzzle 2007-1 Fair Pay for Fair Play: A Preliminary Analysis of Race-Based Wages in MLB and the Negro Leagues 2006-2 Salary Arbitration: A Burden or a Benefit? Do Players Outperform in Their Free Agent Year? 2006-1 Purchasing Pennants: The New York Yankees Then and Now Part 3: Player Performance 2005-3 Purchasing Pennants: The New York Yankees Then and Now Part 2: Salaries 2005-2 Purchasing Pennants: The New York Yankees Then and Now Part 1: Yankee Revenues and Expenses Rodney Fort's Sports Business Data Pages Check out the material available under the MLB section — you can find data on income and expenses, payroll, player salaries, and more. When you first open the site, follow the "Sports Business Data" link in the left pane to open up the page with the different sports sections listed. The Biz of Baseball Lots of great material here also. Try the "Articles and Opinons" and "BoB Documents" links in particular. Super70s Baseball Check out its major league finances section. While much of the data can be found on the previously mentioned sites, it still has a few useful pieces of its own worth checking out.

09-26-2007, 06:47 PM	#5
Nukester All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Newburgh, NY Posts: 1,923	Another great book that I use is the "20th Century Baseball Chronicle".

09-26-2007, 08:05 PM	#6
Mach_1 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 42	Besides some of the other books mentioned, I also enjoy - The Great Encyclopedia of Nineteenth Century Major League Baseball and The Beer and Whiskey League (An Illustrated History of the American Association).

09-27-2007, 12:30 AM	#7
spark240 All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Highest county in the Virginia hills Posts: 637	The new edition of the Encyclopedia of Minor League Baseball came out recently. 1876-2006!