Marvin Johnson

mh2365 · 07-24-2007, 09:07 PM

Okay let me start this conversation by saying that I am a huge fanboy of Marvin. I trained and boxed out of the gym he trained in during the late 70's and early 80's.

He knew my grandfather and was always as nice as could be to me. He might still know me today if I talked about my grandfather to him.

So I can't possibley be objective. With that said I think he is underrated in this game.

IMO his chin rating is just unfair. He was KO'd 4 times in his career, twice by Matthew Saad Muhammed, once by Eddie Mustapha Muhammed and once by Spinks. No shame in those. All but the Spinks fight he was in the fight and Matthew Saad Muhammed has always said Johnson were his roughest fights.

He fought quality competition in compiling a 44-6 record.

His ability to cut his opponents IMO was unmatched.

I just think he deserves a little more love than a 6! Although at the UTBA has proved he might be one of the best 6 rated fighters in the game.

a87star · 07-24-2007, 09:22 PM

I agree Mike. Marvin Johnson only lost to the upper tier guys and both Muhammads and Spinks fit that bill. His other losses came on decisions to ranked Euro LHW's in Mate Parlov and Lottie Mwale and a corner retirement in his last fight against Leslie Stewart where Johnson was way behind on the scorecards.

I would re-rate him to a seven but no higher than a eight.

IceTea · 07-24-2007, 10:00 PM

I think he is about right. He performs better than a 6 in the game. I once had him defeat Harry Greb three times in a row.

MJ

Mad Bomber · 07-24-2007, 11:34 PM

Marvin was one of the top guys in his era, and could probably have been competitive with any of the fighters of his era.

Greg

mh2365 · 07-24-2007, 11:39 PM

Mainly I just don't like his KD and KO rating

mh2365 · 07-24-2007, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a87star

I agree Mike. Marvin Johnson only lost to the upper tier guys and both Muhammads and Spinks fit that bill. His other losses came on decisions to ranked Euro LHW's in Mate Parlov and Lottie Mwale and a corner retirement in his last fight against Leslie Stewart where Johnson was way behind on the scorecards.

I would re-rate him to a seven but no higher than a eight.

He defeated Parlov.

a87star · 07-25-2007, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mh2365

He defeated Parlov.

Yeah, you are right. In all the fights Marvin Johnson lost, he was in every single one and always got off to a fast start. Seems like he couldn't keep up the pace and would wear down. Four of his six losses came via a KO from the eight round or later. Can't really say his chin was all that bad because he would have suffered more early round losses.

IceTea · 07-25-2007, 05:06 AM

If I remember right, his KD1 is a (4). Lower that to a 3 and lower his endurance figure or something like that. I always liked him. He was around when there were plenty of outstanding LHWs.

MJ

hamed · 07-25-2007, 08:56 AM

Gee, I didn't realize 4 of Marvin's losses were to Saad, Eddie & Spinks - boy was that a golden era in the LHW division?

mh2365 · 07-25-2007, 09:32 AM

His second fight with Saad Muhammad (nee Franklin) was one of the best fights I've ever seen. He had Franklin cut over both eyes (still Johnson was the best fighter at cutting other fighters ever) and in trouble the first 6 rounds but wore down and Franklin took him out in the 8th.

I remember watching the first Mormeck and Bell fight and thinking that Mormeck lost that fight just like Johnson always lost his. In a battle but just wore down at the end.

I think I am going to drop his knockdown to 3 and his KO to 2 and that makes him a 7. I think that is more acceptable. I wish there was a rating for the ability to cut an opponent.

Lee · 07-25-2007, 10:08 AM

There is no doubt he fought during a time when the LHW division as arguably as good as anytime in History. Saad Muhammed, Johnson, Spinks, Galindez, Gregory, Scott, Rossman, Quarry.......Lots of good matchups back in the late 70's and 80's.

hamed · 07-25-2007, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mh2365

I wish there was a rating for the ability to cut an opponent.

Speaking of that, I think Luis Collazo must have that ability. He's the unbeaten WBA WW champ in my world, something like 8-0 with 7 KO's & most of those via cut TKO's. In fact, in his last defense, a cut stopped Cotto who had dropped Luis early in the bout.

mh2365 · 07-25-2007, 01:07 PM

I think Pops would be a tough fight for any of the current LHW's including Hopkins. Don't think he could beat a prime Hopkins but this version he could give a fight to.

a87star · 07-25-2007, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mh2365

His second fight with Saad Muhammad (nee Franklin) was one of the best fights I've ever seen. He had Franklin cut over both eyes (still Johnson was the best fighter at cutting other fighters ever) and in trouble the first 6 rounds but wore down and Franklin took him out in the 8th.

If Saad Muhammad didn't have Adolph Ritacco in his corner, Marvin Johnson would have probably won the fight on cuts.

Mike, what is the deal with you being a fanboy of fighters with bad stamina?

mh2365 · 07-25-2007, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a87star

If Saad Muhammad didn't have Adolph Ritacco in his corner, Marvin Johnson would have probably won the fight on cuts.

Mike, what is the deal with you being a fanboy of fighters with bad stamina?

I'm a fat guy so my stamina sucks too

a87star · 07-25-2007, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mh2365

I'm a fat guy so my stamina sucks too

LOL. I still think you would outlast Shannon Briggs.

maxx · 07-25-2007, 04:35 PM

Johnson was one of my favorites as well back in the day. Seemed like he was always in a good scrap. He wasn't the same fighter when he made his comeback in '83 or so, but I was pulling for him to grab the title again.

By the time he lost to Stewart in their rematch he was a shot fighter and I was glad to see him hang it up for good.

Although the game rating does seem like it could be a point or so higher w/o stretching reality, I do agree that within the fight engine itself Johnson seems to fight better than the average 6.

IceTea · 07-25-2007, 04:47 PM

After looking at his ratings, the only thing I would change is maybe lowering the KD1 to a 3. In the game, 4s get knocked down all the time. There is a big difference between a 3 and a 4. That jacks him up to a 7.

mh2365 · 07-25-2007, 06:35 PM

Yeah that is what I am doing with him. He was already a tough out at a 6, this should make him a tad bit better without becoming a superstar.

bdennis2 · 07-25-2007, 06:48 PM

Mike the old board game and the first computer games i thank LH games TKO boxing had the cut opp.rating never did know why the Trunzo's drop the cut opp rating also some of the last board games had a KP rating that was added to fighter being knockdown KO rating the ratings were +3 t0 -3 Foreman had +3 so if his fighter he was fighting had a KO rating of 2 than it became a 5 i liked that allso . Have a good day. Bill

07-24-2007, 09:07 PM	#1
mh2365 Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: louisville Posts: 14,941 Infractions: 0/2 (101)	Marvin Johnson Okay let me start this conversation by saying that I am a huge fanboy of Marvin. I trained and boxed out of the gym he trained in during the late 70's and early 80's. He knew my grandfather and was always as nice as could be to me. He might still know me today if I talked about my grandfather to him. So I can't possibley be objective. With that said I think he is underrated in this game. IMO his chin rating is just unfair. He was KO'd 4 times in his career, twice by Matthew Saad Muhammed, once by Eddie Mustapha Muhammed and once by Spinks. No shame in those. All but the Spinks fight he was in the fight and Matthew Saad Muhammed has always said Johnson were his roughest fights. He fought quality competition in compiling a 44-6 record. His ability to cut his opponents IMO was unmatched. I just think he deserves a little more love than a 6! Although at the UTBA has proved he might be one of the best 6 rated fighters in the game.

07-24-2007, 10:00 PM	#3
IceTea Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Sherrill, NY Posts: 9,836	I think he is about right. He performs better than a 6 in the game. I once had him defeat Harry Greb three times in a row. MJ __________________ Don't worry, be happy! Women's Boxing Cyber Boxing Zone Philadelphia Boxing Boxrec Ross Boxing https://boxingjones.com/

07-24-2007, 11:34 PM	#4
Mad Bomber All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,566	Marvin was one of the top guys in his era, and could probably have been competitive with any of the fighters of his era. Greg __________________ Keep on Punchin' There are three things that go on a fighter, first your reflexes go, then your chin goes, and then your friends go. Willie Pep

07-25-2007, 05:06 AM	#8
IceTea Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Sherrill, NY Posts: 9,836	If I remember right, his KD1 is a (4). Lower that to a 3 and lower his endurance figure or something like that. I always liked him. He was around when there were plenty of outstanding LHWs. MJ __________________ Don't worry, be happy! Women's Boxing Cyber Boxing Zone Philadelphia Boxing Boxrec Ross Boxing https://boxingjones.com/

07-25-2007, 04:47 PM	#18
IceTea Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Sherrill, NY Posts: 9,836	After looking at his ratings, the only thing I would change is maybe lowering the KD1 to a 3. In the game, 4s get knocked down all the time. There is a big difference between a 3 and a 4. That jacks him up to a 7. __________________ Don't worry, be happy! Women's Boxing Cyber Boxing Zone Philadelphia Boxing Boxrec Ross Boxing https://boxingjones.com/

07-24-2007, 09:22 PM	#2
a87star Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Staten Island, NY Posts: 4,850	I agree Mike. Marvin Johnson only lost to the upper tier guys and both Muhammads and Spinks fit that bill. His other losses came on decisions to ranked Euro LHW's in Mate Parlov and Lottie Mwale and a corner retirement in his last fight against Leslie Stewart where Johnson was way behind on the scorecards. I would re-rate him to a seven but no higher than a eight.

07-24-2007, 11:39 PM	#5
mh2365 Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: louisville Posts: 14,941 Infractions: 0/2 (101)	Mainly I just don't like his KD and KO rating

07-25-2007, 08:56 AM	#9
hamed Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 2,073	Gee, I didn't realize 4 of Marvin's losses were to Saad, Eddie & Spinks - boy was that a golden era in the LHW division?

07-25-2007, 09:32 AM	#10
mh2365 Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: louisville Posts: 14,941 Infractions: 0/2 (101)	His second fight with Saad Muhammad (nee Franklin) was one of the best fights I've ever seen. He had Franklin cut over both eyes (still Johnson was the best fighter at cutting other fighters ever) and in trouble the first 6 rounds but wore down and Franklin took him out in the 8th. I remember watching the first Mormeck and Bell fight and thinking that Mormeck lost that fight just like Johnson always lost his. In a battle but just wore down at the end. I think I am going to drop his knockdown to 3 and his KO to 2 and that makes him a 7. I think that is more acceptable. I wish there was a rating for the ability to cut an opponent.

07-25-2007, 10:08 AM	#11
Lee Global Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The Scorched Desert Posts: 4,652	There is no doubt he fought during a time when the LHW division as arguably as good as anytime in History. Saad Muhammed, Johnson, Spinks, Galindez, Gregory, Scott, Rossman, Quarry.......Lots of good matchups back in the late 70's and 80's.

07-25-2007, 01:07 PM	#13
mh2365 Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: louisville Posts: 14,941 Infractions: 0/2 (101)	I think Pops would be a tough fight for any of the current LHW's including Hopkins. Don't think he could beat a prime Hopkins but this version he could give a fight to.

07-25-2007, 04:35 PM	#17
maxx All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 716	Johnson was one of my favorites as well back in the day. Seemed like he was always in a good scrap. He wasn't the same fighter when he made his comeback in '83 or so, but I was pulling for him to grab the title again. By the time he lost to Stewart in their rematch he was a shot fighter and I was glad to see him hang it up for good. Although the game rating does seem like it could be a point or so higher w/o stretching reality, I do agree that within the fight engine itself Johnson seems to fight better than the average 6.

07-25-2007, 06:35 PM	#19
mh2365 Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: louisville Posts: 14,941 Infractions: 0/2 (101)	Yeah that is what I am doing with him. He was already a tough out at a 6, this should make him a tad bit better without becoming a superstar.

07-25-2007, 06:48 PM	#20
bdennis2 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 241	Mike the old board game and the first computer games i thank LH games TKO boxing had the cut opp.rating never did know why the Trunzo's drop the cut opp rating also some of the last board games had a KP rating that was added to fighter being knockdown KO rating the ratings were +3 t0 -3 Foreman had +3 so if his fighter he was fighting had a KO rating of 2 than it became a 5 i liked that allso . Have a good day. Bill