Defensive ratings question (possible bug)

[Killebrew]

First, I'm not sure if this is a bug or not, maybe there is an easy explanation that I'm missing. That said, I've had a few questions about displayed defensive ratings that might indicate a game display or ratings logic bug.

Game version: We are using the latest 2.0.2 version of the game
Game type: Online league converted from OOTP 6.5 - this is our second season using OOTP 2007.
League defensive rating range: 1-100
Possible issue: Players appear to lose all their fielding ratings for a position even if the online DEV report tool (Getch's Player Dev Report Utility) says they still have a defensive rating at a position. Their lack of displayed defensive ratings also does not seem to jibe with the players defensive ratings listed in the "Editor" tab of the player screen.

Here is one example:
Image #1 is a players editor screen available to the Commish mode user (note it looks like he should have CF and RF ratings).

Image #2 is the same players displayed fielding ratings by position (note he has no OF defensive ratings for CF/RF).

The above defensive ratings have not been edited for this player.

This issue appears to be relatively common, though I haven't studied each reported case. It might simply be a display issue, maybe caused by re-calculating the 1-200 or 1-250 game range into the 1-100 range we use as our defensive rating range. Since the CF/RF ratings in the editor are maxed at 200 maybe it's some kind of "rollover" number issue. Either way, I have a few concerned owners hoping this gets looked at .

[endgame]

Any possibility this is related to the almost non-existent arm rating in the outfield? Did you mention whether this has occured within the infielder positions as well? I thought I'd read where ratings, especially conversion leagues, had some difficulty giving any credence to incredibly low ratings where positional ratings were concerned.

[Killebrew]

Originally Posted by endgame

Did you mention whether this has occurred within the infielder positions as well?

Infielder defensive ratings issues have been reported to me as well, but I don't recall analysing them like I did this example. For this example I reloaded about a dozen league file archives to see exactly when his displayed defensive ratings disappeared - I could not find the ratings in any of my archived files so it's possible this player was converted from OOTP 6.5 with no defensive ratings and the owner just didn't notice until now. My oldest post-conversion league file archives are on backup discs so I have not confirmed this idea.

[injury log]

Others know the details better than I do, but the issue here is indeed with the outfielder's arm. To have a position rating displayed in the Profile view, there are minimum component ratings (arm, range, error) required. If one rating falls below the minimum, no position rating will be displayed in the Profile. The minima are different for each position- the required Range at shortstop is much higher than at first base, for example. This does not mean a player is incapable of playing the position. My understanding is that the position ratings are there to give a quick impression of how well someone might play a position, and aren't used in-game; instead the individual fielding ratings are, along with the hidden experience rating. In the editor view, as you've displayed, you can see the player's 'true' rating, even if this won't be displayed in the Profile; the 'true' rating is still an amalgam of the various components, which are what really affects gameplay.

My understanding is that this behaviour is intentional, and not a bug. It can lead to some odd ratings changes, however- a center fielder with great range might have a good CF rating that suddenly disappears when his arm falls just below the minimum threshold. In any event, the AI appears to look at the ratings in the editor view when making lineup decisions; it will often insert players at positions even though they have no rating displayed there in their Profile- they will, however, have a rating in the Editor window.

[injury log]

dola,

Some interpret the Profile ratings as a kind of recommendation- i.e. the scout (or the game, if scouts are off) is recommending you do not play Roger Scoles at RF because he doesn't have the arm for it, and is therefore not displaying an RF rating for the player. Defensive component ratings can decline precipitously with age, so I'd expect it would be best if the 38 year old Scoles could find a team where he can DH for the rest of his career.

[Killebrew]

Yikes, that sounds like Shannon Stewart (and many other notoriously weak armed OF's) would never get an OF defensive rating in OOTP 2007 .

I don't understand the user benefit of this particular game display logic but I appreciate the helpful responses here Injury Log & endgame. I guess if users don't like this game design decision they can request an enhancement in a future version, in the meantime I can explain this issue to our impacted owners.

[Killebrew]

Dola - Getting a lil' sceptical the more I look at this. I notice that for our league the "Resulting rating" on the editor screen results in a displayed defensive rating of half that number. I've checked dozens of players now and this seems consistent. That "half" rating display might be due to our using the 1-100 defensive rating.

Anyway, if that's the case it seems like Scoles should still have a defensive rating displayed in spite of his weak arm because the editor screen shows resulting ratings. Are you all certain there is no defensive rating display bug involved here?

[injury log]

I'm as sure about this as I can realistically be about OOTP things, not having programmed the game. For more authoratative info from people more expert than me, see this thread, particularly post no. 6 (although there's a lot of great info throughout the thread on defensive ratings):

ootpdevelopments.com/board/showthread.php?t=149649

[Killebrew]

Thanks again - that's an interesting thread you linked to.

[Zeyes]

Originally Posted by Killebrew

Dola - Getting a lil' sceptical the more I look at this. I notice that for our league the "Resulting rating" on the editor screen results in a displayed defensive rating of half that number. I've checked dozens of players now and this seems consistent. That "half" rating display might be due to our using the 1-100 defensive rating.

Yes. The values in the editor are on the native 1-200 (or rather, -250) scale.

Anyway, I'm sure you've seen it among the linked threads by now, but just to tie things up here: For positional ratings to be displayed in-game, the OF Arm rating has to be at least 40 on the 200 scale. The editor view doesn't care about that, as injury log said.

[Nutlaw]

To reiterate: injury log is correct here. Closing this thread.