HOF : Tim Raines

Long_Long_Name · 06-08-2007, 12:02 AM

I thought I would start a thread about one of my favourite players, Tim Raines. I think it would be sad for such an astounding player to be left out of the Hall of Fame, but I think he could still be seen as a borderline case. So, I'm inquiring to you guys: In your opinion, is he HOF-worthy?

G: 2502
AB: 8872
R: 1571
H: 2605
2B: 430
3B: 113
HR: 170
RBI: 980
SB: 808 (5th all-time)
CS: 146
SB%: 84 (highest amongst the top 200 base stealers)
BB: 1330
SO: 817
BA: .294
OBP: .385
SLG: .425

CMH · 06-08-2007, 12:16 AM

I think people can make a strong argument for him, but I don't know if he'd get voted in.

I'd give him a vote, though because I admire his consistency and he did what he was supposed to do well.

Dagrims · 06-08-2007, 12:34 AM

One of the most underrated outfielders ever, and perhaps the second-best leadoff hitter of all time.

In.

canadiancreed · 06-08-2007, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Long_Long_Name

G: 2502
AB: 8872
R: 1571
H: 2605
2B: 430
3B: 113
HR: 170
RBI: 980
SB: 808 (5th all-time)
CS: 146
SB%: 84 (highest amongst the top 200 base stealers)
BB: 1330
SO: 817
BA: .294
OBP: .385
SLG: .425

Let's see:

Over 2500+ hits
High SB total
EXTREMELY high SB%
Large BB:K ratio
Almost .300 career hitter
Almost .400 OBP career

That's quite a few pluses

Playing almost all of his career in MOntreal, that wil probably have some writers going "who?"

If it was a logical hall no question.

Jason Moyer · 06-08-2007, 12:55 AM

I'm a small hall guy, and I'd put him in without a second thought.

OTOH, I dunno if he'll get in.

jbergey22 · 06-08-2007, 12:59 AM

I like Tim Raines and feel he was under rated early in his career. However I just cant put him in. I think if a player has less than 200 HR's either 3000 hits or a .300 average is a must. His stats other than SB's just seem too 'average."

Dagrims · 06-08-2007, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbergey22

I think if a player has less than 200 HR's either 3000 hits or a .300 average is a must.

I don't think it is a stathead argument to suggest that you look at his OBP instead of his batting average. By ignoring OBP, you're completely discounting his great ability to draw walks and get on base, which is a leadoff man's job.

Do you think Juan Pierre is on track to be better than Tim Raines because his lifetime batting average is over .300?

Raderick · 06-08-2007, 08:19 AM

Would he get in? I doubt it. Would I vote for him? Without a doubt.

ctorg · 06-08-2007, 09:02 AM

Great player. I'd vote him in. But as others have said, he probably won't get in.

Slackker · 06-08-2007, 09:26 AM

My tiny HOF doesn't have a place for Tim Raines, but I'd put him in anyway because I happen to like the guy and.. well, it's MY Hall of Fame!

The real one? I doubt they'll vote him in, but I'd be pleased if they did. I still voted yes, since *I* would vote him in, and.. that's the question.

CBL-Commish · 06-08-2007, 10:08 AM

He'll probably be duking it out with Santo and Blyleven for title of most ridiculous HOF slight when he's eligible.

ctorg · 06-08-2007, 10:12 AM

Funny, I just looked up Tim Raines on BB Reference to look at his career and noticed that he scored three runs and stole two bases in the major leagues before getting his first career at bat. I guess he managed to appear in six games that year as a pinch runner.

Long_Long_Name · 06-08-2007, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagrims

I don't think it is a stathead argument to suggest that you look at his OBP instead of his batting average. By ignoring OBP, you're completely discounting his great ability to draw walks and get on base, which is a leadoff man's job.

Do you think Juan Pierre is on track to be better than Tim Raines because his lifetime batting average is over .300?

And it's not like his BA is abysmal anyway - .294 for a 23 year career is an asset, not an obstacle.

I'm curious as to why the bulk of you who would vote him in but don't think he'll get in think that he... well.. won't get in.

canadiancreed · 06-08-2007, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Long_Long_Name

And it's not like his BA is abysmal anyway - .294 for a 23 year career is an asset, not an obstacle.

I'm curious as to why the bulk of you who would vote him in but don't think he'll get in think that he... well.. won't get in.

We have no faith in the electorate?

Goodsox · 06-08-2007, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raderick

Would he get in? I doubt it. Would I vote for him? Without a doubt.

Ditto. I think he has the stats to make a case, but I just think he is one of those forgotten players that will get passed over. I hope he does make it. He was a great player and an asset to every team he played for.

Russ · 06-08-2007, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Long_Long_Name

And it's not like his BA is abysmal anyway - .294 for a 23 year career is an asset, not an obstacle.

I'm curious as to why the bulk of you who would vote him in but don't think he'll get in think that he... well.. won't get in.

It's because I feel like the majority of baseball writers are idiots and without standard HOF numbers (3000 hits, 500 HRs) they are incapable of recognizing greatness.

Long_Long_Name · 06-08-2007, 10:27 AM

Tim Raines sure won't be forgotten in Montréal, in any case. While Gary Carter and Vladimir Guerrero were the most beloved of players to pass by this city, I'll always remember the final Expos game in Montréal. I can remember three persons taking the mic - Brian Schneider, the players' rep for the Expos at the time, an emotional Claude Raymond who had trouble finishing his speech without crying, and Tim Raines, who got the biggest ovation I've ever seen anyone get at a baseball game (and I was there for Carter's final game, and for Guerrero hitting for the cycle). I was surprised, I must say, but it was nice to see.

If you belittle the HOF voters and don't think they can look past what they see... wouldn't Tim Raines be a good candidate anyway? I mean, he was flashy, he was exciting to watch, he hit a lot and stole a lot of bases, that's certainly spectacular, isn't it?

briantheiceberg · 06-08-2007, 12:07 PM

I vote no. Above average players don't get in. All he was was above average, not HOF

Russ · 06-08-2007, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by briantheiceberg

I vote no. Above average players don't get in. All he was was above average, not HOF

The 2nd best leadoff man of all time was not merely above average, but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Gastric ReFlux · 06-08-2007, 12:09 PM

He spelled his last name wrong. I can't see putting a wrongly spelled name in the Hall. Sorrry but no.

View Poll Results: Would you vote for Tim Raines to go in the Hall of Fame?
Yes	59	70.24%
No	25	29.76%
Voters: 84. You may not vote on this poll

06-08-2007, 12:02 AM	#1
Long_Long_Name Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Montréal Posts: 7,065	HOF : Tim Raines I thought I would start a thread about one of my favourite players, Tim Raines. I think it would be sad for such an astounding player to be left out of the Hall of Fame, but I think he could still be seen as a borderline case. So, I'm inquiring to you guys: In your opinion, is he HOF-worthy? G: 2502 AB: 8872 R: 1571 H: 2605 2B: 430 3B: 113 HR: 170 RBI: 980 SB: 808 (5th all-time) CS: 146 SB%: 84 (highest amongst the top 200 base stealers) BB: 1330 SO: 817 BA: .294 OBP: .385 SLG: .425 __________________ Beta Baseball. Join it!

06-08-2007, 12:34 AM	#3
Dagrims Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 3,827	One of the most underrated outfielders ever, and perhaps the second-best leadoff hitter of all time. In. __________________ "Read books, get brain."

06-08-2007, 12:55 AM	#5
Jason Moyer Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 5,074	I'm a small hall guy, and I'd put him in without a second thought. OTOH, I dunno if he'll get in. __________________ "I pretty much popped everything cold turkey. We were doing steroids they wouldn't give to horses." -- Tom House "I was very fortunate to have a pitching coach by the name of Tom House...Tom, I really miss those days that we spent in the weight room and out on the field working together." -- Nolan Ryan's HoF Induction Speech

06-08-2007, 12:59 AM	#6
jbergey22 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,481	I like Tim Raines and feel he was under rated early in his career. However I just cant put him in. I think if a player has less than 200 HR's either 3000 hits or a .300 average is a must. His stats other than SB's just seem too 'average." Last edited by jbergey22; 06-08-2007 at 01:01 AM.

06-08-2007, 12:16 AM	#2
CMH Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,057	I think people can make a strong argument for him, but I don't know if he'd get voted in. I'd give him a vote, though because I admire his consistency and he did what he was supposed to do well.

06-08-2007, 08:19 AM	#8
Raderick Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: San Diego, California Posts: 2,737	Would he get in? I doubt it. Would I vote for him? Without a doubt. __________________

06-08-2007, 09:02 AM	#9
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	Great player. I'd vote him in. But as others have said, he probably won't get in. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

06-08-2007, 09:26 AM	#10
Slackker All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Connecticut Posts: 777	My tiny HOF doesn't have a place for Tim Raines, but I'd put him in anyway because I happen to like the guy and.. well, it's MY Hall of Fame! The real one? I doubt they'll vote him in, but I'd be pleased if they did. I still voted yes, since I would vote him in, and.. that's the question.

06-08-2007, 10:08 AM	#11
CBL-Commish All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,999	He'll probably be duking it out with Santo and Blyleven for title of most ridiculous HOF slight when he's eligible. __________________ For the best in O's news: Orioles' Hangout.com

06-08-2007, 10:12 AM	#12
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	Funny, I just looked up Tim Raines on BB Reference to look at his career and noticed that he scored three runs and stole two bases in the major leagues before getting his first career at bat. I guess he managed to appear in six games that year as a pinch runner. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

06-08-2007, 10:27 AM	#17
Long_Long_Name Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Montréal Posts: 7,065	Tim Raines sure won't be forgotten in Montréal, in any case. While Gary Carter and Vladimir Guerrero were the most beloved of players to pass by this city, I'll always remember the final Expos game in Montréal. I can remember three persons taking the mic - Brian Schneider, the players' rep for the Expos at the time, an emotional Claude Raymond who had trouble finishing his speech without crying, and Tim Raines, who got the biggest ovation I've ever seen anyone get at a baseball game (and I was there for Carter's final game, and for Guerrero hitting for the cycle). I was surprised, I must say, but it was nice to see. If you belittle the HOF voters and don't think they can look past what they see... wouldn't Tim Raines be a good candidate anyway? I mean, he was flashy, he was exciting to watch, he hit a lot and stole a lot of bases, that's certainly spectacular, isn't it? __________________ Beta Baseball. Join it!

06-08-2007, 12:07 PM	#18
briantheiceberg Banned Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 212 Infractions: 0/4 (102)	I vote no. Above average players don't get in. All he was was above average, not HOF

06-08-2007, 12:09 PM	#20
Gastric ReFlux Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Member #3409 Posts: 8,350	He spelled his last name wrong. I can't see putting a wrongly spelled name in the Hall. Sorrry but no.