Hall of Fame Vote

GurnB · 09-16-2002, 05:53 PM

When is the next Baseball Hall of Fame Vote?

I think this will be Gary Carter's last shot without having to wait for induction via the veterans committee.

twins15 · 09-16-2002, 07:46 PM

How about Bert B.?

Long_Long_Name · 09-16-2002, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GurnB
I think this will be Gary Carter's last shot without having to wait for induction via the veterans committee.

How so? 1st off, he'll probably get in this time around (he had 73% last time). Unless there's a rule I'm not aware of, I think he'll get in via voting. I only see 2004 and 2007 as strong years...

Players eligible in future years:
2003: Eddie Murray, Ryne Sandberg, Lee Smith, Fernando Valenzuela
2004: Joe Carter, Dennis Eckersley, Jimmy Key, Dennis Martinez, Paul Molitor, Tom Pagnozzi, Terry Pendleton, Juan Samuel, Bob Tewksbury
2005: Wade Boggs, Tom Candiotti, Chili Davis, Jeff King, Mark Langston, Willie McGee, Jeff Montgomery, Terry Steinbach
2006: Albert Belle, Will Clark, Gary Gaetti, Orel Hershiser, Darryl Strawberry
2007: Bobby Bonilla, Eric Davis, Tony Gwynn, Stan Javier, Wally Joyner, Mark McGwire, Paul O’Neill, Cal Ripken Jr., Bret Saberhagen

AngelinOF · 09-17-2002, 12:48 AM

They vote sometime around the first of the year usually around the 5th-10th of January.

Jason Moyer · 09-17-2002, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Long_Long_Name
How so? 1st off, he'll probably get in this time around (he had 73% last time). Unless there's a rule I'm not aware of, I think he'll get in via voting. I only see 2004 and 2007 as strong years...

Sandberg and Murray are first ballot locks, so if Carter's going to get in he'll have to beat Blyleven and Smith and hope for a 3-player vote-in year. Blyleven gets very little support it seems, and Smith has a huge uphill battle, so I'm sure he'll beat both of them hands down. 75% I'm not so sure about.

On the other hand, there is very little doubt that Carter (and Blyleven) will get in via the new veteran's committee.

While we're on the subject, here are my (obvious) predictions for the upcoming votes:

2003 - Sandberg/Murray
2004 - Molitor (Eck will get in, I just don't see it happening on the first ballot)
2005 - Boggs
2006 - no one (altho I'd love to see Clark get in and take Mattingly along with him)
2007 - Gwynn/McGwire/Ripken

Jason

H I Mcdonough · 09-17-2002, 03:15 AM

Lemme see.....

2003 - Ryne Sandberg & Eddie Murray are locks. Lee Smith may get in eventually.

2004 - Eckersley and Molitor

2005 - Wade Boggs

2006 - Nobody but Albert Belle probably deserves to go. Not to piss anyone off, but I don't believe Mattingly belongs anywhere near the Hall Of Fame. Will Clark either.

2007 - Gwynn, McGwire, Cal.....all automatic

Jason Moyer · 09-17-2002, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by H I Mcdonough
2006 - Nobody but Albert Belle probably deserves to go. Not to piss anyone off, but I don't believe Mattingly belongs anywhere near the Hall Of Fame. Will Clark either.

How do you feel about Puckett getting in?

Stats through age 34:

Code:

	G	AB	H	2B	3B	HR	BB	HBP	SF	AVG	OBP	SLG	OPS
Kirby	1783	7244	2304	414	57	207	450	56	58	0.318	0.360	0.477	0.837
Will	1769	6495	1964	395	45	253	830	50	94	0.302	0.381	0.494	0.875
Don	1785	7003	2153	442	20	222	588	21	96	0.307	0.358	0.471	0.830

Mattingly's numbers are on par with Puckett even though the last 6 years of his career he could barely walk. Clark's numbers are more impressive when you consider he put up most of those stats while playing in Candlestick.

Jason

blubbla · 09-17-2002, 09:18 AM

I wonder what would make Lee Smith that much more different than Jeff Reardon, Goose Gossage, and Bruce Sutter. Granted, Smitty's got the all time record, the same thing that made Rollie Fingers a lock, but the others were just as dominant -- if not more so -- during their heyday.

I sure hope Carter gets in this year. Ryno and Murray are first ballot locks. I'd love to see Andre Dawson get the support he deserves. And then there's Blyleven and maybe even Jim Rice.

I think this is one year I'd fill all 10 spots if I had a BBWAA ballot...

darkhorse · 09-17-2002, 09:57 AM

Mattingly and Clark have similar numbers to Puckett but the fact they are first basemen and Kirby a CF is the difference in their value and HOF qualifications.

CMH · 09-17-2002, 10:10 AM

i dislike the Hall Of Fame process.

why not just vote similar to the MVP process? get rid of this "after a number of years the player is ineligible or he needs this amount of votes to remain eligible"

i think its ridiculous. if a player is a hall of famer we should know by lookin at him. was he a hall of famer? yes or no. thats it. the process has become so dumb downed that deserving guys consistantly get left off year after year b/c only a few are allowed per year b/c of percentages.

Crapshoot · 09-17-2002, 11:35 AM

IMO,
Ryan's one of the most overrated players in baseball history...
There is no wayt he should be a first ballot lock

Malleus Dei · 09-17-2002, 01:35 PM

Aadik, do you mean Ryne Sandberg?

The guy who was named to ten straight All-Star teams, who won nine straight Gold Gloves, and who won the NL MVP? I'll bite, why do you think he is overrated?

fantom1979 · 09-17-2002, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Malleus Dei
Aadik, do you mean Ryne Sandberg?

The guy who was named to ten straight All-Star teams, who won nine straight Gold Gloves, and who won the NL MVP? I'll bite, why do you think he is overrated?

LOL... i was wondering the same thing

dont forget 2 division titles, .989 career fielding percentage

Here is baseball-reference list of Batting Leaders Not Yet Eligible for the hall of fame

Batting Leaders Not Yet Eligible
284 Tony_Gwynn
268 Wade_Boggs
243 Cal_Ripken_Jr.
228 Barry_Bonds
192 Rickey_Henderson
188 Ken_Griffey_Jr.
173 Mark_McGwire
168 Frank_Thomas
167 Roberto_Alomar
165 Paul_Molitor
157 Ryne_Sandberg
155 Eddie_Murray
145 Sammy_Sosa
144 Larry_Walker
135 Alex_Rodriguez
134 Jeff_Bagwell
134 Albert_Belle
131 Mike_Piazza

and just to save an argument, Mattingly should get in to. He would have had 3000 hits if it wasnt for injuries. He had 9 GG, 1 AL MVP and a heart of gold

GurnB · 09-17-2002, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aadik
IMO,
Ryan's one of the most overrated players in baseball history...
There is no wayt he should be a first ballot lock

I'm not saying he shouldn't be in the HoF, but I don't think it's a given that he is a first ballot lock.

It's just my opinion, that doesn't make it right.

blubbla · 09-17-2002, 04:10 PM

I think Ryno will be a lock. Unlike some other players, I don't think the media (save Joe Morgan...not that he really counts) were turned off by him.

Of course, WGN and Harry Caray had much to do with his stardom. But he put up the numbers to back it up.

Jason Moyer · 09-17-2002, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fantom1979
and just to save an argument, Mattingly should get in to. He would have had 3000 hits if it wasnt for injuries. He had 9 GG, 1 AL MVP and a heart of gold

Top 20 first basemen in baseball history, per Bill James:

1. Gehrig
2. Foxx
3. McGwire
4. Bagwell
5. Murray
6. Mize
7. Killebrew
8. Greenberg
9. McCovey
10. Thomas
11. Anson
12. MATTINGLY
13. Perez
14. CLARK
15. Allen
16. Hernandez
17. Cepeda
18. Brouthers
19. Palmeiro
20. Cash

That's not a bad group of hall of famers to be sandwiched around. Palmeiro will probably move slightly, and Olerud will eventually make this list too.

Personally, I think HOF voting overemphasizes longevity. Few players who put up 500 HR's or 3000 hits were all that great the last 5 to 10 years they played (I'm obviously ignoring guys like Mike Schmidt and Eddie Murray who sustained MVP-caliber performance for over 10 seasons), I don't understand why guys like Mattingly and Clark who put up 5 or more superstar seasons don't get more consideration (James weighs peak value as much as longevity, hence their inclusion on this list). Carlton Fisk, for instance, was a great player, but he had 1 superstar season and lots of so-so seasons. OTOH, Gary Carter played on a level comparable to Berra, Bench, and Campanella throughout the 80's but followed a normal catcher development path.

I don't like holding it against guys that they didn't spend 5-10 years of their career padding their stats and collecting a big paycheck. With Mattingly and Clark, I don't know how I feel about them getting in other than that I wouldn't disapprove at all. They aren't automatic entries in my book, but the HOF voters have done much worse than those 2.

Jason

Sharkie · 09-17-2002, 05:49 PM

No Garvey on the list? Wow, at one time he was considered a sure lock for the Hall

blubbla · 09-17-2002, 08:20 PM

There'll be one more notable on the 2007 list: Harold Baines. He'll be the player with the best stats (and eligibility) that won't get in, mainly because the last 15 years of his career he was a DH/PH in all but about 100 games.

The production was the same, though, year after year until just near the end. You could pencil him in for .295-20-85 virtually every season.

09-16-2002, 05:53 PM	#1
GurnB Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Carmel, IN Posts: 53	Hall of Fame Vote When is the next Baseball Hall of Fame Vote? I think this will be Gary Carter's last shot without having to wait for induction via the veterans committee. __________________ GurnB Playing OOTP since V2.0 and still not very good at it.

09-16-2002, 07:46 PM	#2
twins15 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Area 51 Posts: 4,792	How about Bert B.? __________________ "Ah man we're just hungry man" - Dovonte Edwards Bismarck Boy Scouts of the OTBL - league yes-man Ross Gload at baseball-reference.com Book Quotes and Book Lists

09-17-2002, 09:57 AM	#9
darkhorse Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: fort worth, tx Posts: 10,850	Mattingly and Clark have similar numbers to Puckett but the fact they are first basemen and Kirby a CF is the difference in their value and HOF qualifications. __________________ "The Human Torch was denied a bank loan."

09-17-2002, 12:48 AM	#4
AngelinOF All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Kentucky Posts: 1,353	They vote sometime around the first of the year usually around the 5th-10th of January.

09-17-2002, 03:15 AM	#6
H I Mcdonough Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 291	Lemme see..... 2003 - Ryne Sandberg & Eddie Murray are locks. Lee Smith may get in eventually. 2004 - Eckersley and Molitor 2005 - Wade Boggs 2006 - Nobody but Albert Belle probably deserves to go. Not to piss anyone off, but I don't believe Mattingly belongs anywhere near the Hall Of Fame. Will Clark either. 2007 - Gwynn, McGwire, Cal.....all automatic

09-17-2002, 09:18 AM	#8
blubbla Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Herscher, IL Posts: 2,460	I wonder what would make Lee Smith that much more different than Jeff Reardon, Goose Gossage, and Bruce Sutter. Granted, Smitty's got the all time record, the same thing that made Rollie Fingers a lock, but the others were just as dominant -- if not more so -- during their heyday. I sure hope Carter gets in this year. Ryno and Murray are first ballot locks. I'd love to see Andre Dawson get the support he deserves. And then there's Blyleven and maybe even Jim Rice. I think this is one year I'd fill all 10 spots if I had a BBWAA ballot...

09-17-2002, 10:10 AM	#10
CMH Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,057	i dislike the Hall Of Fame process. why not just vote similar to the MVP process? get rid of this "after a number of years the player is ineligible or he needs this amount of votes to remain eligible" i think its ridiculous. if a player is a hall of famer we should know by lookin at him. was he a hall of famer? yes or no. thats it. the process has become so dumb downed that deserving guys consistantly get left off year after year b/c only a few are allowed per year b/c of percentages.

09-17-2002, 11:35 AM	#11
Crapshoot Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: watching: DArwin's missing link in action Posts: 3,112	IMO, Ryan's one of the most overrated players in baseball history... There is no wayt he should be a first ballot lock

09-17-2002, 04:10 PM	#15
blubbla Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Herscher, IL Posts: 2,460	I think Ryno will be a lock. Unlike some other players, I don't think the media (save Joe Morgan...not that he really counts) were turned off by him. Of course, WGN and Harry Caray had much to do with his stardom. But he put up the numbers to back it up.

09-17-2002, 05:49 PM	#17
Sharkie Bat Boy Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 4	No Garvey on the list? Wow, at one time he was considered a sure lock for the Hall

09-17-2002, 08:20 PM	#18
blubbla Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Herscher, IL Posts: 2,460	There'll be one more notable on the 2007 list: Harold Baines. He'll be the player with the best stats (and eligibility) that won't get in, mainly because the last 15 years of his career he was a DH/PH in all but about 100 games. The production was the same, though, year after year until just near the end. You could pencil him in for .295-20-85 virtually every season.