2912 - What's up with the money?

phenom · 03-23-2007, 04:06 PM

Umm... the 2004 Detroit Tigers, while finishing 86-76 and drawing over 3 million fans, with a payroll of just under $109 million, somehow ended up in the red to the tune of $-1,416,518,574.

The 2003 season ended with a balance of $742,612,458 in the positive.

How did they lose $2.1 BILLION dollars in a year?

phenom · 03-23-2007, 04:07 PM

dola,

This is a historical sim starting in 1901 with the latest Lahman database. I'll dig around to see if there's more like this.

Need any other details?

billethius · 03-23-2007, 04:08 PM

Any huge coaches salaries? Minor league coaches?

rasnell · 03-23-2007, 04:12 PM

Did you add a minor league after starting the initial league setup and simming a season or so?

Like billethius noted, if you see a huge coach salary in the minors, you have triggered a known bug that has been reported for the patch.

Let us know if you find something different than this known bug.

phenom · 03-23-2007, 04:14 PM

I don't think I can tell now, as it's now 2006.

But a billion dollars? My player payroll went from $155 million in 2002 to $139M in 2003 to $109M in 2004.

phenom · 03-23-2007, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rasnell

Did you add a minor league after starting the initial league setup and simming a season or so?

Like billethius noted, if you see a huge coach salary in the minors, you have triggered a known bug that has been reported for the patch.

Let us know if you find something different than this known bug.

I added minors at different times in the sim...

Last added minor league was in 1984.

phenom · 03-23-2007, 04:22 PM

This seems to have something to do with not enough players to fill minor leagues.

The Texas Rangers are some $2 billion in the whole, and when I dig through, I see that there's a AA pitching coach with a salary of $-2,116,138,800 signed through 1974.

The league played in 1972 and didn't play again, but it's still there.

phenom · 03-23-2007, 04:24 PM

Same deal with the 2006 Padres and their $2 Billion payroll. Rookie league mgr making $1.2 billion through 1985 and the R lg pitching coach making $795M through 1986.

This league was created in 1984, played in 1984, and hasn't played since.

So yeah, maybe this is the same thing that you've found.

fhomess · 03-23-2007, 04:29 PM

Sounds like this is the same issue that was previously found and needs to be fixed in a patch.

It's logged as TT#2912.

billethius · 03-23-2007, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phenom

Same deal with the 2006 Padres and their $2 Billion payroll. Rookie league mgr making $1.2 billion through 1985 and the R lg pitching coach making $795M through 1986.

This league was created in 1984, played in 1984, and hasn't played since.

So yeah, maybe this is the same thing that you've found.

Yeah, that's exactly what I was seeing when testing. It's been in the TT system since shortly after code-lock, so hopefully it's something that'll be looked at prior to the first patch.

phenom · 03-31-2007, 07:02 PM

Will this make it in the patch? Seems like a doozy.

Neags23 · 04-01-2007, 03:30 PM

Would a temporary workaround for this be to disable the financial system while simming, then adding the minor league system, simming for a couple more years, then enable financials? Is enabling financials midway through even possible?

If so, does this still cause the billion dollar problem? Wondering if anyone has tried this before I potentially waste a day simming only to find out it still happens.

Honolulu Blue · 04-02-2007, 05:44 AM

I saw this problem in the first league I created. I turned off revenue sharing and I haven't seen it since.

Neags23 · 04-03-2007, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phenom

Will this make it in the patch? Seems like a doozy.

"

Sublimity · 04-03-2007, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honolulu Blue

I saw this problem in the first league I created. I turned off revenue sharing and I haven't seen it since.

Has everyone who has seen this been using revenue sharing?

Neags23 · 04-03-2007, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sublimity

Has everyone who has seen this been using revenue sharing?

I was, yes.

I also tried disabling financials while simming and adding my minor leagues, then enabling them after. It appeared to work until a year later, one of the minor league coaches had a -$1.8 billion contract. And a lot of the minor league coaches had a $0 contracts that had expired 15 years ago.

I guess I'll try with revenue sharing off and see what happens.

Ksyrup · 04-03-2007, 10:20 AM

No. I had revenue sharing off when it happened. I think it is tied to creation of a minor league. I didn't see it immediately, but I started noticing the effects about 3 years after the minor league was created, started doing some snooping around, and saw the negative billion dollar staff expense, which somehow morphed into a billion positive net worth, allowing this particular team to spend at will. I haven't found the coach whose salary is screwing it all up, though.

Ksyrup · 04-03-2007, 10:22 AM

Does this only seem to be an issue when a minor league is created at some point in the future of the league, as opposed to at the beginning? Because if it's just the former, I think I'm going to create the minor league I was waiting to create at the beginning, rather than risk running into this issue again. Between this and the auto-reset of my draft rules, this particular universe has been compromised, so I'm starting over.

Neags23 · 04-03-2007, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Does this only seem to be an issue when a minor league is created at some point in the future of the league, as opposed to at the beginning? Because if it's just the former, I think I'm going to create the minor league I was waiting to create at the beginning, rather than risk running into this issue again. Between this and the auto-reset of my draft rules, this particular universe has been compromised, so I'm starting over.

Mine was tied to creation of minors on two different universes, both are kind of jacked up now. I wanted to wait to create minors to crank up my sim speed, but if this is going to happen every time, I'll take the extra few hours to sim with minors already instilled.

phenom · 04-03-2007, 11:53 AM

<--- also tied to creation of a minor league several years into the sim.

03-23-2007, 04:06 PM	#1
phenom Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Near the Great Wall. On the GOOD side. Posts: 3,770	2912 - What's up with the money? Umm... the 2004 Detroit Tigers, while finishing 86-76 and drawing over 3 million fans, with a payroll of just under $109 million, somehow ended up in the red to the tune of $-1,416,518,574. The 2003 season ended with a balance of $742,612,458 in the positive. How did they lose $2.1 BILLION dollars in a year? __________________ reported

03-23-2007, 04:12 PM	#4
rasnell Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Frankfort, Kentucky Posts: 3,746	Did you add a minor league after starting the initial league setup and simming a season or so? Like billethius noted, if you see a huge coach salary in the minors, you have triggered a known bug that has been reported for the patch. Let us know if you find something different than this known bug. __________________ Charlie Root won more games for the Cubs than any pitcher (201), yet was remembered for one pitch to Babe Ruth. Find out more about the 1929 World Series in my book, "Root for the Cubs: Charlie Root and the 1929 Chicago Cubs." See the web site at www.rootforthecubs.com. The book is at http://www.amazon.com/Root-Cubs-Char...t+for+the+cubs. Beta tester, OOTP 2007-2023 and iOOTP 2011-2014.

03-23-2007, 04:14 PM	#5
phenom Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Near the Great Wall. On the GOOD side. Posts: 3,770	I don't think I can tell now, as it's now 2006. But a billion dollars? My player payroll went from $155 million in 2002 to $139M in 2003 to $109M in 2004. __________________ reported

03-23-2007, 04:22 PM	#7
phenom Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Near the Great Wall. On the GOOD side. Posts: 3,770	This seems to have something to do with not enough players to fill minor leagues. The Texas Rangers are some $2 billion in the whole, and when I dig through, I see that there's a AA pitching coach with a salary of $-2,116,138,800 signed through 1974. The league played in 1972 and didn't play again, but it's still there. __________________ reported

03-23-2007, 04:24 PM	#8
phenom Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Near the Great Wall. On the GOOD side. Posts: 3,770	Same deal with the 2006 Padres and their $2 Billion payroll. Rookie league mgr making $1.2 billion through 1985 and the R lg pitching coach making $795M through 1986. This league was created in 1984, played in 1984, and hasn't played since. So yeah, maybe this is the same thing that you've found. __________________ reported

03-23-2007, 04:07 PM	#2
phenom Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Near the Great Wall. On the GOOD side. Posts: 3,770	dola, This is a historical sim starting in 1901 with the latest Lahman database. I'll dig around to see if there's more like this. Need any other details? __________________ reported

03-23-2007, 04:08 PM	#3
billethius All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 822	Any huge coaches salaries? Minor league coaches?

03-23-2007, 04:29 PM	#9
fhomess Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 3,693	Sounds like this is the same issue that was previously found and needs to be fixed in a patch. It's logged as TT#2912. __________________ StatsLab- PHP/MySQL based utilities for Online Leagues Baseball Cards - Full list of known templates and documentation on card development.

03-31-2007, 07:02 PM	#11
phenom Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Near the Great Wall. On the GOOD side. Posts: 3,770	Will this make it in the patch? Seems like a doozy. __________________ reported

04-01-2007, 03:30 PM	#12
Neags23 All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,577	Would a temporary workaround for this be to disable the financial system while simming, then adding the minor league system, simming for a couple more years, then enable financials? Is enabling financials midway through even possible? If so, does this still cause the billion dollar problem? Wondering if anyone has tried this before I potentially waste a day simming only to find out it still happens.

04-02-2007, 05:44 AM	#13
Honolulu Blue Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 241	I saw this problem in the first league I created. I turned off revenue sharing and I haven't seen it since.

04-03-2007, 10:20 AM	#17
Ksyrup Major Leagues Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 413	No. I had revenue sharing off when it happened. I think it is tied to creation of a minor league. I didn't see it immediately, but I started noticing the effects about 3 years after the minor league was created, started doing some snooping around, and saw the negative billion dollar staff expense, which somehow morphed into a billion positive net worth, allowing this particular team to spend at will. I haven't found the coach whose salary is screwing it all up, though.

04-03-2007, 10:22 AM	#18
Ksyrup Major Leagues Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 413	Does this only seem to be an issue when a minor league is created at some point in the future of the league, as opposed to at the beginning? Because if it's just the former, I think I'm going to create the minor league I was waiting to create at the beginning, rather than risk running into this issue again. Between this and the auto-reset of my draft rules, this particular universe has been compromised, so I'm starting over.

04-03-2007, 11:53 AM	#20
phenom Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Near the Great Wall. On the GOOD side. Posts: 3,770	<--- also tied to creation of a minor league several years into the sim. __________________ reported