Ichiro

twins15 · 08-29-2002, 07:43 PM

Don't look now, but Ichiro is down to third in the AL in batting, and been caught stealing 12 times.

CMH · 08-29-2002, 10:30 PM

did not deserve the MVP last year...thats all i have to say.

good player, but all he does is hit the ball at .300, steal bases and play excellent outfield.

OKAY, so thats darn good. but what about gettin on base and producing runs?

hardly a 5 tool player. very overrated

twins15 · 08-29-2002, 11:44 PM

i hate to agree with a yankee fan, but i agree that he is overrated.

jor31 · 08-30-2002, 12:36 AM

I disagree on your main oppinion, but do agree on little ones, like thet Mizuno bats are nivce and he wear s cool sunglasses.

Marinerz · 08-30-2002, 03:52 AM

The only tool he lacks is power. And .300 isnt right, .340 is a big diff and thats what hes hitting around. He also one of the best outfield arms in baseball let alone king of his domain, outfield

edm · 08-30-2002, 03:52 AM

All the way down to 3rd, man he is horrible...

I don't care how over rated he is, I absolutely love watching him hit. He has 'imo' one of the purest swings ever. Its a great thing to see.

Highlander · 08-30-2002, 09:03 AM

I'm not sure if he should have been MVP, but I'm not so sure he is overrated either. Everyone seems to look at power now as the ultimate skill in baseball.....you have to hit HR. I think it is great to see a player without power get so much recognition for being a great player. He does a number of other things besides hit HR to help his team.....although it would be nice if he could draw a few walks.

CMH · 08-30-2002, 09:51 AM

whoa, guys i didnt say the guy sucks. i said he is overrated. thats it. overrated does not mean i feel he sucks.

i said he is a good ball player...just not a 5 tool guy.

i complimented his fielding (read). i complimented his speed (read)...i said he hits .300, yes its not .340, but he hits .300. i dont care if you hit .302 or .340...you are hitting .300. maybe i shouldve said a high .300 just to differenciate.

anywayz, i love to watch the guy play too. but i personally feel he gets too much commercial time b/c he is from Japan. Its all a marketing move by MLB to win more fans over and entice more Japanese players to move here to continue the Japanese support.

as a result, the guy is overated. i could care less that he doesnt hit for power, but in my opinion the best player in the league should be one who does it all. Ichiro just misses.

KWhit · 08-30-2002, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by YankeePride
i said he hits .300, yes its not .340, but he hits .300. i dont care if you hit .302 or .340...you are hitting .300.

This statement makes NO sense at all.

I love the fact that Ichiro won the MVP last year. It's great to see somebody receive recognition who isn't a power hitter. HRs receive way too much air time. I like to see someone who plays great defense and gets hits. And when he's on the bases, no pitcher can relax.

Ichiro is the most exciting player in the game today.

CMH · 08-30-2002, 03:31 PM

so when you hit .340 you arent a .300 type hitter?

did you take third grade math like everyone else here did, or do you choose to be ignorant?

fluharty · 08-30-2002, 03:59 PM

YankeePride, some people take any oportunity to criticize someone and run with it. I understood what you meant. A ".300 hitter" is a fellow who hits at or above ".300". Pretty simple. High-300 hitters are then a subgroup of 300 hitters.

gamadict · 08-30-2002, 04:20 PM

Well, the reason MVP voters tend to give it to power hitters is usually 'cause they deserve it. Wihch was the case last year. For example, Giambi got on base a lot more, hit the ball a lot farther and had more total bases in fewer plate appearences. His batting average was only 8 points lower, too. He didn't have as many steals, but as we know, in the modern game, the steal is greatly devalued...Although Ichiro had a really good percentage and did help his team with the steal. His defense is obviously signifigantly better, but it's not nearly enough to make up for the offensive difference...ARod, pretty much the same story, except he stole some bases at a decent percentage and was maybe worth more defensively...Ichiro is definitely overrated simply by virtue of coming away with the MVP last year...

CMH · 08-30-2002, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fluharty
YankeePride, some people take any oportunity to criticize someone and run with it. I understood what you meant. A ".300 hitter" is a fellow who hits at or above ".300". Pretty simple. High-300 hitters are then a subgroup of 300 hitters.

well fluharty, thats true.

however, i do tend to get defensive real quick and sound really mean when i say things. i just choose not to edit b/c if the guy was in front of my face I cant say, "oh, wait, i take the back, uh EDIT, it never happened!" ya know?

i'm tryin to understand what KWhit meant by sayin my statement made NO sense. I wish he would elaborate. too many people attack others here without defending their case. some may consider hiring a lawyer to type out their responses. i'm being serious.

i can see how it does not make sense to him, but i'm still confused. it seems like he is telling me that .340 is not hitting .300. However, if he looks at .300 literally meaning .300 then i could understand the confusion. but i doubt he could be that stupid. which is why i asked if he choose to be ignorant.

i think he chooses to be ignorant and only wants to defend a favorite player of his. so i stand by my statement until he gives me reason to understand his position

Mariner and Giants Fan · 08-30-2002, 05:40 PM

OK Ichiro is a little over publicized, not overrated. He is slumping now and you can see how it is affecting the Mariners. Is he the best player in the bigs? No way, but he sure is one of the top 15. Now was he deserving of the MVP last year? Absolutely! Without him the M's don't even win 95 games (see 2000 with Arod!). Look at the A's without Giambi! Better than last year with him!

My question for this year is: How can anyone in their right mind think ARod deserves the MVP? Sure he's got great stats, but even without him the Rangers would still be in last place! Hey you could make an argument that if the Rangers had the money they are paying Arod they could buy some good pitchers and players to move up in the standings! So while ARod may be one of the best players in the bigs, NOWAY is he the MVP!!

Carplos · 08-30-2002, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by YankeePride
i can see how it does not make sense to him, but i'm still confused. it seems like he is telling me that .340 is not hitting .300. However, if he looks at .300 literally meaning .300 then i could understand the confusion.

Well, if someone hits .275 consistently, do we call them a .200 hitter?

I understand what you meant, but .340 and .300 are vastly different, I mean, Placido Polanco has been a .300 hitter the last 2 years (2000/2001), but no one is gonna confuse him with Ichiro.

And it's not Ichiro's fault if he's overrated, the media made a big deal about it, not him. He's a very good player. Don't hold the media's attention on him, against him. Not that people in this thread are necessarily doing it, but some do.

CMH · 08-30-2002, 05:58 PM

yea but whats the point of being a good hitter? hitting .300.

if you hit .302 or .399 YOU ARE A .300 hitter. thats tells me that almost 3 out of 10 at bats, you'll be on first base with a hit.

a .275 guy is not a .300 hitter. its an alright average but its not impressive. when i look at guys who are great hitters I start at .300 and up...i'm sure most people do the same since its the backbone of many Hall Of Fame arguments.

CMH · 08-30-2002, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mariner and Giants Fan

My question for this year is: How can anyone in their right mind think ARod deserves the MVP? Sure he's got great stats, but even without him the Rangers would still be in last place! Hey you could make an argument that if the Rangers had the money they are paying Arod they could buy some good pitchers and players to move up in the standings! So while ARod may be one of the best players in the bigs, NOWAY is he the MVP!!

i know i never said ARod is an MVP. That would be crazy.

My pick comes down to these guys in the American League:

in no particular order, just by what name i remember as i type (forgive me if i forget someone who obviously deserves it, i'm typing off of memory)

1. Alfonso Soriano
2. Jason Giambi
3. Torii Hunter
4. Garret Anderson
5. Miguel Tejada
6. Manny Ramirez

however, since I do not think pitchers deserve the MVP award (thats another argument for another time) my list conveniantly consists of only 6 players.

the pitchers who could win it:

Jarrod Washburn
Barry Zito
Pedro Martinez
Derek Lowe

Mariner and Giants Fan · 08-30-2002, 06:17 PM

Maybe he's an accountant, they always round numbers down when under half way to the next number and round up when halfway or more to the next number: 3.4 = 3 and 3.5 = 4!

LOL!

Mariner and Giants Fan · 08-30-2002, 06:19 PM

Giambi will win it because all of the writers who didn't vote for him in 2001 will feel sorry for him and since it's so cloes just give it too him!

Nirvana91 · 08-30-2002, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by YankeePride
yea but whats the point of being a good hitter? hitting .300.

if you hit .302 or .399 YOU ARE A .300 hitter. thats tells me that almost 3 out of 10 at bats, you'll be on first base with a hit.

If a guy is a .399 hitter, I'd expect him to get on base 4 out of 10 times, not 3.

You can call a guy who bats .340 a .300 hitter all you want, but it's still does a disservice to the guy. There's a big difference between .300 and .340.

Ichiro deserved the MVP last season, definitely. He led the AL in batting average, hits, and stolen bases, and finished second is runs scored. Let's not forget the gold glove award. He also batted .445 (.506 obp) with runners in scoring position, and .460 (.558 obp) with RISP/2 out. I think that alone warrants an MVP selection. Not too mention the fact that he hustles out every grounder and doesn't showboat like most major leaguers.

Just my take...........

08-29-2002, 07:43 PM	#1
twins15 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Area 51 Posts: 4,792	Ichiro Don't look now, but Ichiro is down to third in the AL in batting, and been caught stealing 12 times.

08-29-2002, 11:44 PM	#3
twins15 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Area 51 Posts: 4,792	i hate to agree with a yankee fan, but i agree that he is overrated. __________________ "Ah man we're just hungry man" - Dovonte Edwards Bismarck Boy Scouts of the OTBL - league yes-man Ross Gload at baseball-reference.com Book Quotes and Book Lists

08-30-2002, 12:36 AM	#4
jor31 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 296	I disagree on your main oppinion, but do agree on little ones, like thet Mizuno bats are nivce and he wear s cool sunglasses. __________________ <img src="http://www.seti-stats.de/setistats/userstats.php?bcolor=128,128,128&tcolor=128,128,12 8&l=2&lng=en&id=3123">

08-30-2002, 05:40 PM	#14
Mariner and Giants Fan All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Port Townsend, WA. Posts: 1,264	OK Ichiro is a little over publicized, not overrated. He is slumping now and you can see how it is affecting the Mariners. Is he the best player in the bigs? No way, but he sure is one of the top 15. Now was he deserving of the MVP last year? Absolutely! Without him the M's don't even win 95 games (see 2000 with Arod!). Look at the A's without Giambi! Better than last year with him! My question for this year is: How can anyone in their right mind think ARod deserves the MVP? Sure he's got great stats, but even without him the Rangers would still be in last place! Hey you could make an argument that if the Rangers had the money they are paying Arod they could buy some good pitchers and players to move up in the standings! So while ARod may be one of the best players in the bigs, NOWAY is he the MVP!! __________________ Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen"

08-30-2002, 06:17 PM	#18
Mariner and Giants Fan All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Port Townsend, WA. Posts: 1,264	Maybe he's an accountant, they always round numbers down when under half way to the next number and round up when halfway or more to the next number: 3.4 = 3 and 3.5 = 4! LOL! __________________ Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen"

08-29-2002, 10:30 PM	#2
CMH Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,057	did not deserve the MVP last year...thats all i have to say. good player, but all he does is hit the ball at .300, steal bases and play excellent outfield. OKAY, so thats darn good. but what about gettin on base and producing runs? hardly a 5 tool player. very overrated

08-30-2002, 03:52 AM	#5
Marinerz Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Monroe, WA Posts: 26	The only tool he lacks is power. And .300 isnt right, .340 is a big diff and thats what hes hitting around. He also one of the best outfield arms in baseball let alone king of his domain, outfield

08-30-2002, 03:52 AM	#6
edm All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 1,999	All the way down to 3rd, man he is horrible... I don't care how over rated he is, I absolutely love watching him hit. He has 'imo' one of the purest swings ever. Its a great thing to see.

08-30-2002, 09:03 AM	#7
Highlander All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 982	I'm not sure if he should have been MVP, but I'm not so sure he is overrated either. Everyone seems to look at power now as the ultimate skill in baseball.....you have to hit HR. I think it is great to see a player without power get so much recognition for being a great player. He does a number of other things besides hit HR to help his team.....although it would be nice if he could draw a few walks.

08-30-2002, 09:51 AM	#8
CMH Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,057	whoa, guys i didnt say the guy sucks. i said he is overrated. thats it. overrated does not mean i feel he sucks. i said he is a good ball player...just not a 5 tool guy. i complimented his fielding (read). i complimented his speed (read)...i said he hits .300, yes its not .340, but he hits .300. i dont care if you hit .302 or .340...you are hitting .300. maybe i shouldve said a high .300 just to differenciate. anywayz, i love to watch the guy play too. but i personally feel he gets too much commercial time b/c he is from Japan. Its all a marketing move by MLB to win more fans over and entice more Japanese players to move here to continue the Japanese support. as a result, the guy is overated. i could care less that he doesnt hit for power, but in my opinion the best player in the league should be one who does it all. Ichiro just misses.

08-30-2002, 03:31 PM	#10
CMH Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,057	so when you hit .340 you arent a .300 type hitter? did you take third grade math like everyone else here did, or do you choose to be ignorant?

08-30-2002, 03:59 PM	#11
fluharty All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Morgantown, WV Posts: 1,023	YankeePride, some people take any oportunity to criticize someone and run with it. I understood what you meant. A ".300 hitter" is a fellow who hits at or above ".300". Pretty simple. High-300 hitters are then a subgroup of 300 hitters.

08-30-2002, 04:20 PM	#12
gamadict Minors (Single A) Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Pitsburgh, PA... Posts: 50	Well, the reason MVP voters tend to give it to power hitters is usually 'cause they deserve it. Wihch was the case last year. For example, Giambi got on base a lot more, hit the ball a lot farther and had more total bases in fewer plate appearences. His batting average was only 8 points lower, too. He didn't have as many steals, but as we know, in the modern game, the steal is greatly devalued...Although Ichiro had a really good percentage and did help his team with the steal. His defense is obviously signifigantly better, but it's not nearly enough to make up for the offensive difference...ARod, pretty much the same story, except he stole some bases at a decent percentage and was maybe worth more defensively...Ichiro is definitely overrated simply by virtue of coming away with the MVP last year...

08-30-2002, 05:58 PM	#16
CMH Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,057	yea but whats the point of being a good hitter? hitting .300. if you hit .302 or .399 YOU ARE A .300 hitter. thats tells me that almost 3 out of 10 at bats, you'll be on first base with a hit. a .275 guy is not a .300 hitter. its an alright average but its not impressive. when i look at guys who are great hitters I start at .300 and up...i'm sure most people do the same since its the backbone of many Hall Of Fame arguments.

08-30-2002, 06:19 PM	#19
Mariner and Giants Fan All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Port Townsend, WA. Posts: 1,264	Giambi will win it because all of the writers who didn't vote for him in 2001 will feel sorry for him and since it's so cloes just give it too him! __________________ Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen"