2974 - Importing all of history not quite right

ctorg · 03-22-2007, 09:12 AM

I created a league starting in 1987 with all of history imported. Unfortunately, a bunch of teams are listed under "Earlier Franchises" that should be considered part of existing ones. The Brooklyn Dodgers, for instance, import as a different team than the Los Angeles Dodgers. The Braves import as three different teams: Boston, Milwaukee, and Atlanta.

Basically, it looks like if a team switched cities, the game considered them a different franchise. This should not be the case at all.

I am surprised this was missed in testing.

ctorg · 03-22-2007, 09:14 AM

I think I will consider importing of all of history to be "broken" until this is fixed.

Claymore · 03-22-2007, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctorg

I created a league starting in 1987 with all of history imported. Unfortunately, a bunch of teams are listed under "Earlier Franchises" that should be considered part of existing ones. The Brooklyn Dodgers, for instance, import as a different team than the Los Angeles Dodgers. The Braves import as three different teams: Boston, Milwaukee, and Atlanta.

Basically, it looks like if a team switched cities, the game considered them a different franchise. This should not be the case at all.

I am surprised this was missed in testing.

Damn fictional beta-tester playin around with facegen! :-)

ctorg · 03-22-2007, 09:35 AM

I haven't even toyed with FaceGen yet.

Markus Heinsohn · 03-22-2007, 09:38 AM

The game can only use what Lahman offers, and if two teams share the same franchise ID in Lahman then it will be the same franchise in OOTP. This is not a bug at all. Without this automatic relocation & expansion would not work.

ctorg · 03-22-2007, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

The game can only use what Lahman offers, and if two teams share the same franchise ID in Lahman then it will be the same franchise in OOTP. This is not a bug at all. Without this automatic relocation & expansion would not work.

Markus...

They DO share the same franchise ID. Teams are importing incorrectly. The LA Dodgers and Brooklyn Dodgers are the same franchise, and are recorded as such in the version of Lahman (5.4) I am using. They are importing as two different franchises.

Markus Heinsohn · 03-22-2007, 10:01 AM

Ah, now I know what you mean... but the way it works is intentional.

ctorg · 03-22-2007, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Ah, now I know what you mean... but the way it works is intentional.

But... that's not how major league history is recorded.

Markus Heinsohn · 03-22-2007, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctorg

But... that's not how major league history is recorded.

It is just a matter of taste how things are displayed. I greatly prefer it the way it is now, because I can see how the extinct teams did on a single screen.

statfreak · 03-22-2007, 10:13 AM

Is there a way to "trick" OOTP2007 into showing these type of franchises as one franchise (you know, for those with a different taste)?

Markus Heinsohn · 03-22-2007, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by statfreak

Is there a way to "trick" OOTP2007 into showing these type of franchises as one franchise (you know, for those with a different taste)?

Sim from the beginning, when the game automatically expands then it is treated as one franchise (doesn't work differently).

ctorg · 03-22-2007, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

It is just a matter of taste how things are displayed. I greatly prefer it the way it is now, because I can see how the extinct teams did on a single screen.

The thing is, in official baseball history, those teams are not extinct. The team records and everything else carry over. So, for instance, if you look up the all-time batting average leader of the LA Dodgers, you get Babe Herman. That is how it is officially recorded in history, even though Herman played for the Brooklyn Dodgers. The franchise is continuous. As it is now, Babe Herman shows up as having the record for a defunct team called the Brooklyn Dodgers. In my 1987 league, the LA Dodgers all-time leader is listed as Tommy Davis, which is inaccurate for real baseball history.

It's not just a matter of taste; that's the way history is recorded.

The game handles it correctly if you start in 1901 and move forward, but not if you start in a later year and look back. That doesn't seem consistent to me.

Claymore · 03-22-2007, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

It is just a matter of taste how things are displayed. I greatly prefer it the way it is now, because I can see how the extinct teams did on a single screen.

Ack, you might like it, but I'd wager a lot of people are going to prefer it with linked histories. It is also inconsistant because if you sim through the league the history remains because you didnt import it. That alone will drive me crazy. It would really be great if we could gets teams to display linked histories at least as an option in the next patch.

Claymore · 03-22-2007, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctorg

The thing is, in official baseball history, those teams are not extinct. The team records and everything else carry over. So, for instance, if you look up the all-time batting average leader of the LA Dodgers, you get Babe Herman. That is how it is officially recorded in history, even though Herman played for the Brooklyn Dodgers. The franchise is continuous. As it is now, Babe Herman shows up as having the record for a defunct team called the Brooklyn Dodgers. In my 1987 league, the LA Dodgers all-time leader is listed as Tommy Davis, which is inaccurate for real baseball history.

It's not just a matter of taste; that's the way history is recorded.

The game handles it correctly if you start in 1901 and move forward, but not if you start in a later year and look back. That doesn't seem consistent to me.

/agree 100%

Markus Heinsohn · 03-22-2007, 10:24 AM

It was a design decision. I'll look into it again soon...

Claymore · 03-22-2007, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

It was a design decision. I'll look into it again soon...

I'd really really really appreciate it if you did, if for at least consistancies sake. Right now tha game records things differently based upon whether you simmed it out or imported after a certain date...

Personal Attack · 03-22-2007, 10:35 AM

Ok, but if I start a fictional league and move franchises from city to city, that will retain franchise records 'correctly'? Please confirm that this is only an import issue.

For the record, I am very much with ctorg on this one. I understand that it was a design decision, but I thought the point of importing the MLB league history was to, you know, import MLB league history, not rewrite MLB history. Hank Aaron won't have any Atlanta Braves records! That doesn't make sense, Markus, I'm sorry.

Markus Heinsohn · 03-22-2007, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Personal Attack

Ok, but if I start a fictional league and move franchises from city to city, that will retain franchise records 'correctly'?

Yes!

thomamon · 03-22-2007, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Personal Attack

Ok, but if I start a fictional league and move franchises from city to city, that will retain franchise records 'correctly'? Please confirm that this is only an import issue.

For the record, I am very much with ctorg on this one. I understand that it was a design decision, but I thought the point of importing the MLB league history was to, you know, import MLB league history, not rewrite MLB history. Hank Aaron won't have any Atlanta Braves records! That doesn't make sense, Markus, I'm sorry.

You are correct.

ctorg · 03-22-2007, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claymore

I'd really really really appreciate it if you did, if for at least consistancies sake. Right now tha game records things differently based upon whether you simmed it out or imported after a certain date...

"

For the record, I think you've done an amazing job with the game from what I've seen so far, Markus. It makes me feel bad to offer up a criticism so quickly, but I figure you were ready for it anyway.

03-22-2007, 09:12 AM	#1
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	2974 - Importing all of history not quite right I created a league starting in 1987 with all of history imported. Unfortunately, a bunch of teams are listed under "Earlier Franchises" that should be considered part of existing ones. The Brooklyn Dodgers, for instance, import as a different team than the Los Angeles Dodgers. The Braves import as three different teams: Boston, Milwaukee, and Atlanta. Basically, it looks like if a team switched cities, the game considered them a different franchise. This should not be the case at all. I am surprised this was missed in testing. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

03-22-2007, 09:14 AM	#2
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	I think I will consider importing of all of history to be "broken" until this is fixed. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

03-22-2007, 09:35 AM	#4
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	I haven't even toyed with FaceGen yet. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

03-22-2007, 10:13 AM	#10
statfreak Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 2,434	Is there a way to "trick" OOTP2007 into showing these type of franchises as one franchise (you know, for those with a different taste)? __________________ Roll out the barrel!

03-22-2007, 09:38 AM	#5
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,803	The game can only use what Lahman offers, and if two teams share the same franchise ID in Lahman then it will be the same franchise in OOTP. This is not a bug at all. Without this automatic relocation & expansion would not work.

03-22-2007, 10:01 AM	#7
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,803	Ah, now I know what you mean... but the way it works is intentional.

03-22-2007, 10:24 AM	#15
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,803	It was a design decision. I'll look into it again soon...

03-22-2007, 10:35 AM	#17
Personal Attack Bat Boy Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 10	Ok, but if I start a fictional league and move franchises from city to city, that will retain franchise records 'correctly'? Please confirm that this is only an import issue. For the record, I am very much with ctorg on this one. I understand that it was a design decision, but I thought the point of importing the MLB league history was to, you know, import MLB league history, not rewrite MLB history. Hank Aaron won't have any Atlanta Braves records! That doesn't make sense, Markus, I'm sorry.