Future issues with LLWS?

CMH · 08-25-2002, 02:49 PM

Wiley from Page2 brings up a good question in this article:

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/wiley/020823.html

I've mentioned it before but i'll say it again. I dont want to think as if the problems with the New York teams in the LLWS is a racial issue. However, there is little standing against my observations and its obvious now that there are others who feel the very same.

Can it really be a mistake that the New York teams are the only teams of color in the past two LLWS and both have been criticized heavily for things that many of the other little league teams do?

Those things really involve two main topics:

1. Age...as i said before, Kentucky and MA both had kids that look well over the age of 13. I dont think they are older than 13, but my question is, why not the investigation? Yet last year a Latin boy from the Bronx gets investigated b/c of an issue with age. Yes the league was correct and there was an issue, but I personally feel the only reason anyone cared was b/c he was Latin and from the Bronx.

2. "Hotdoggin" it....uh yea, who doesnt do this? The Harlem team may have done it more than anyone else but every team in the LLWS had their own way of hotdoggin' it. Just b/c the Harlem team didnt do it "like everyone else" does not mean they were wrong and uncivilized.

My main concern is that with the New York teams becoming more dominant in the past years, the LLWS and its officials (mainly the all-star managers of teams outside of New York) are worried that their white-infested league will soon become similar to major sports where players of color are the majority and whites are the minority. Its bound to happen, but with the raising acquisations and concerns, i'm only led to believe that the all-star managers are scared of these colored players.

Remember, i'm not tryin to turn this into a racial issue and I know my statements dont necessarily support my former, but as i've said before I really do feel that something is up and there needs to be a stop to it.

What do you guys think? And really be serious about this. Most of you probably dont realize how important this issue is and how much it means to me and other people of color. If any silver spoon fed individual wants to be clever to take this post into a different direction, i would advise you keep ya comments to yourself...or trust me, i will report you. i'm being serious. this is a serious topic.

lynchjm24 · 08-25-2002, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by YankeePride
Wiley from Page2 brings up a good question in this article:

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/wiley/020823.html

I've mentioned it before but i'll say it again. I dont want to think as if the problems with the New York teams in the LLWS is a racial issue. However, there is little standing against my observations and its obvious now that there are others who feel the very same.

Can it really be a mistake that the New York teams are the only teams of color in the past two LLWS and both have been criticized heavily for things that many of the other little league teams do?

Those things really involve two main topics:

1. Age...as i said before, Kentucky and MA both had kids that look well over the age of 13. I dont think they are older than 13, but my question is, why not the investigation? Yet last year a Latin boy from the Bronx gets investigated b/c of an issue with age. Yes the league was correct and there was an issue, but I personally feel the only reason anyone cared was b/c he was Latin and from the Bronx.

2. "Hotdoggin" it....uh yea, who doesnt do this? The Harlem team may have done it more than anyone else but every team in the LLWS had their own way of hotdoggin' it. Just b/c the Harlem team didnt do it "like everyone else" does not mean they were wrong and uncivilized.

My main concern is that with the New York teams becoming more dominant in the past years, the LLWS and its officials (mainly the all-star managers of teams outside of New York) are worried that their white-infested league will soon become similar to major sports where players of color are the majority and whites are the minority. Its bound to happen, but with the raising acquisations and concerns, i'm only led to believe that the all-star managers are scared of these colored players.

Remember, i'm not tryin to turn this into a racial issue and I know my statements dont necessarily support my former, but as i've said before I really do feel that something is up and there needs to be a stop to it.

What do you guys think? And really be serious about this. Most of you probably dont realize how important this issue is and how much it means to me and other people of color. If any silver spoon fed individual wants to be clever to take this post into a different direction, i would advise you keep ya comments to yourself...or trust me, i will report you. i'm being serious. this is a serious topic.

I'm not looking to start a huge fight - but it shouldn't be on TV, except for the final.

I'd have to say that I'm sure along the way almost all the teams run into people that question the ages of their players.

The Bronx was using kids that WERE 14 - as opposed to other teams that have kids that 'look' like they are 13.

CMH · 08-25-2002, 04:37 PM

correction, the Bronx was using A kid that was over the age of 13.

and yes you are right. the other teams are using kids that look like they are older than 13 as opposed to the Bronx team that had a kid that was over 13.

my question is, why didnt anyone question those kids that look like they are older than 13? someone is gonna say, i'm sure it was investigated, but i disagree. If it were investigated, it would be on the news. I could imagine the headlines now..."Another Danny Almonte!", "UH OH!, here we go again", "13?" etc.

I didnt see or hear any of that which leads me to believe there was no investigation. I think you misunderstand my point.

The point is that Danny Almonte was not investigated b/c he was 14 years old. If they knew he was 14, he wouldnt be investigated, he would have been disallowed to play immediately. He was investigated b/c he was dominant and looked like he was older than 13 years of age.

The Kentucky kid and MA kid were dominating and look like they are older than 13. so why no investigation???

my only assumption is that there is more to the reasons Danny Almonte was investigated. Not only was he dominating and looked over 13, but he was Latino and from the Bronx. He was different. He came from an area where it is expected of you to remain in the streets and become unsuccessful in life. (The truth is the Bronx is no where close to as bad as other areas in the United States, but thats another argument for another thread). Danny Almonte was an example. All-Star managers were afraid of him and could not believe that a Latin kid from the Bronx could be this successful. Its impossible. So they realized, hey he looks like he isnt 13 and he is too dominant, something is up. Lets investigate.

Yes they were right, trust me i have no ill effects of that. I am happy they found Almonte out. What I am unhappy with is the reason.

No one thought the same about the Kentucky or MA kid. NO ONE! Its a fact, not an opinion. HAVE YOU READ A STORY QUESTIONING THEIR AGE???

why? I dont want to believe it, but all i could assume (and yes I know what happens when you assume, but i'm willing to take a stand) is that Almonte was more of a racial issue than an age issue.

Its the only thing that explains the reason the Harlem team was questioned. I mean come on! who decides that maybe we should investigate this team and find out if all of them live in Harlem. First of all, just as Wiley mentioned, WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD LIE ABOUT LIVING IN HARLEM?! many would rather say they live somewhere else. these kids are being accussed of doing the complete opposite...rediculous. and guess what, the people who investigated were wrong. Yea one kid didnt exactly live in Harlem, but there was a special issue with it. I bet if you investigated the Kentucky team, or the Florida team, or wateva team, you'll find at least one kid who might be questionable in terms of where they live and if they do live in the little league team's area.

The New York team's have been singled out two years in a row. No one has given me a specific reason. you dont know if a player is older than 13 or doesnt live in an area unless you investigate it first. This was not done with any other team besides Harlem. WHY? Give me a real reason. Dont say, b/c the kid was older than 13. Thats not a reason why you investigate. As i said before, you dont know the truth and thats why you investigate. The investigations grew from curiosity and speculations. No all-star manager speculated against any other team besides the New York teams.

WHY if not race?

H I Mcdonough · 08-25-2002, 05:06 PM

I think a lot of people (i.e. white people, like myself) will dismiss this. They'll say it has nothing to do with the kids being black or Latin. But I think it does. And I don't think it's being done on purpose.

Regardless of all this, something else that should be addressed is how GOOD it is for the game to have inner city teams in the little league world series and doing well. Baseball should be interested in recapturing some of the inner city youth sports interest from football and basketball. And that team being on tv and playing well is a good thing, showboating or not.

jlungs · 08-25-2002, 05:17 PM

Was the Phillipine team disqualified in 1992 investigated because they were from the Phillipines? In my opinion, in each case legitimate concerns were raised with the eligibility of players. Some turn out to be true, some don't. Race is not an issue, the issue is finding rules violations in successful teams.

CMH · 08-25-2002, 05:24 PM

well thats what i wanna hear. I dont want it to be a racial issue, i only ask the question b/c i'm concerned and curious.

personally i do not think any of the players on the Kentucky or MA team were investigated. That is where my concern lies.

lynchjm24 · 08-25-2002, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by YankeePride
correction, the Bronx was using A kid that was over the age of 13.

and yes you are right. the other teams are using kids that look like they are older than 13 as opposed to the Bronx team that had a kid that was over 13.

my question is, why didnt anyone question those kids that look like they are older than 13? someone is gonna say, i'm sure it was investigated, but i disagree. If it were investigated, it would be on the news. I could imagine the headlines now..."Another Danny Almonte!", "UH OH!, here we go again", "13?" etc.

I didnt see or hear any of that which leads me to believe there was no investigation. I think you misunderstand my point.

The point is that Danny Almonte was not investigated b/c he was 14 years old. If they knew he was 14, he wouldnt be investigated, he would have been disallowed to play immediately. He was investigated b/c he was dominant and looked like he was older than 13 years of age.

The Kentucky kid and MA kid were dominating and look like they are older than 13. so why no investigation???

my only assumption is that there is more to the reasons Danny Almonte was investigated. Not only was he dominating and looked over 13, but he was Latino and from the Bronx. He was different. He came from an area where it is expected of you to remain in the streets and become unsuccessful in life. (The truth is the Bronx is no where close to as bad as other areas in the United States, but thats another argument for another thread). Danny Almonte was an example. All-Star managers were afraid of him and could not believe that a Latin kid from the Bronx could be this successful. Its impossible. So they realized, hey he looks like he isnt 13 and he is too dominant, something is up. Lets investigate.

Yes they were right, trust me i have no ill effects of that. I am happy they found Almonte out. What I am unhappy with is the reason.

No one thought the same about the Kentucky or MA kid. NO ONE! Its a fact, not an opinion. HAVE YOU READ A STORY QUESTIONING THEIR AGE???

why? I dont want to believe it, but all i could assume (and yes I know what happens when you assume, but i'm willing to take a stand) is that Almonte was more of a racial issue than an age issue.

Its the only thing that explains the reason the Harlem team was questioned. I mean come on! who decides that maybe we should investigate this team and find out if all of them live in Harlem. First of all, just as Wiley mentioned, WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD LIE ABOUT LIVING IN HARLEM?! many would rather say they live somewhere else. these kids are being accussed of doing the complete opposite...rediculous. and guess what, the people who investigated were wrong. Yea one kid didnt exactly live in Harlem, but there was a special issue with it. I bet if you investigated the Kentucky team, or the Florida team, or wateva team, you'll find at least one kid who might be questionable in terms of where they live and if they do live in the little league team's area.

The New York team's have been singled out two years in a row. No one has given me a specific reason. you dont know if a player is older than 13 or doesnt live in an area unless you investigate it first. This was not done with any other team besides Harlem. WHY? Give me a real reason. Dont say, b/c the kid was older than 13. Thats not a reason why you investigate. As i said before, you dont know the truth and thats why you investigate. The investigations grew from curiosity and speculations. No all-star manager speculated against any other team besides the New York teams.

WHY if not race?

It's pretty easy to investigate a kid who was born in the US. Our record keeping is a little more sound than in the Domininican.

Almonte was a big deal because it was New York - if it were Fargo North Dakota, be assured the Post and News would have paid zero attention.

I'm sure lots of kids are accused of being over 12 in lots of leagues. However, many of the problems are fixed during the little league regular seasons - most of the eligibility is dealt with then.

I'm sure sometimes maybe race comes into play, but I would have to say you are overreacting.

Harlem was singled out because they acted like a bunch of jackasses. It had nothing to do with the fact it was Harlem or they were minorities. They acted like fools, and yes people were to harsh because they were kids, but they weren't wrong.

lynchjm24 · 08-25-2002, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by YankeePride
well thats what i wanna hear. I dont want it to be a racial issue, i only ask the question b/c i'm concerned and curious.

personally i do not think any of the players on the Kentucky or MA team were investigated. That is where my concern lies.

How would you have any idea if kids on the MA or KY teams were investigated?
There is nothing to investigate on a kid born in Worcester MA, either he has a birth certificate that says he is the right age or not. It's pretty simple.

lynchjm24 · 08-25-2002, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by H I Mcdonough
I think a lot of people (i.e. white people, like myself) will dismiss this. They'll say it has nothing to do with the kids being black or Latin. But I think it does. And I don't think it's being done on purpose.

Regardless of all this, something else that should be addressed is how GOOD it is for the game to have inner city teams in the little league world series and doing well. Baseball should be interested in recapturing some of the inner city youth sports interest from football and basketball. And that team being on tv and playing well is a good thing, showboating or not.

I think almost everyone in NY is pulled for the Bronx and Harlem, the scores were on the big scoreboards at Shea and Yankee stadium - everyone cheered when they won. I think most people were hoping that Almonte ended up being 12 - I never heard one word from anyone saying that they didn't want the NY teams to win.

CMH · 08-25-2002, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lynchjm24

How would you have any idea if kids on the MA or KY teams were investigated?
There is nothing to investigate on a kid born in Worcester MA, either he has a birth certificate that says he is the right age or not. It's pretty simple.

nothing to investigate on a kid born in Worcester MA?

i didnt know that people born in Worcester, MA were an exception to the rule. I have been around the area a couple of times and I can not believe I did not realize how great the people were there.

dayam, now i'm gonna have to check my birth certificate. I wasnt born in Worcester so its impossible for me to really be 20 years old. Maybe i'm really 22 years old, being that I was born in New York.

Lynch, i dont know how serious you were here, but if you were 100% serious, i dont get you. How are you gonna say that there is nothing to investigate on a kid born in Worcester, MA? What makes that kid different from the Bronx, NY kid? You do not make any sense.

either he has a birth certificate that says he is the right age or not. It's pretty simple

really? that simple? so i guess someone born in New York doesnt have a birth certificate? now i'm really gonna have to double check my birth certificate. Not only may I be 22 years old, but I may not really even exist.

Specs · 08-25-2002, 06:35 PM

Danny Almonte didn't have a valid birth certificate. That is why they investigated.

H I Mcdonough · 08-25-2002, 06:49 PM

I thought this was more about the supposed "hot-dogging" and "showboating" issue? Not the whole age investigation thing.

Did I hear that the Harlem team was booed by the crowd when that kid did his Deion Sanders impression on the way to home plate?

CMH · 08-25-2002, 06:55 PM

Specs, do you have a valid birth certificate?

i'm gonna guess you are gonna say yes.

ok, you decided to join a league that i also happen to manage. It is none of my business whether or not you are really 12, 13, 21, 24, wateva.

One day, you pitch and i notice you are dominating the opposition. I say, cant be possible. He does look too old. I bet this kid isnt really 13 years old.

I investigate.

Now answer this, did I know you had a valid birth certificate? No.

So please rephrase your comment. You said, danny almonte had an invalid birth certificate and was therefore investigated. Ummmm, please reread what you just said. How am I gonna investigate an invalid birth certificate. If its invalid then i wouldnt have to investigate, its already proof. the proper comment should have been, Danny Almonte was investigated and it was discovered that he had an invalid birth certificate.

So once again, i ask...why not investigate the MA or Kentucky kid and see if they have invalid birth certificates.

no one has given me a good answer yet. every answer i've received is exactly what the media and Little League told us. Obviously, I wouldnt raise this issue if I found the information given by the media and Little League valid.

as for what this is really about. I could care less who booed and who didnt. There was no need for booing. I dont care if the kid showboated or did not. The kid running the bases was 13 years old! How dare you boo a 13 year old. ITS THE FREAKIN LLWS! for crying out loud!

SHAME ON ANYONE WHO HATED THE HARLEM TEAM B/C THEY SHOWBOATED. you may have not liked it, but hate is a strong word and hoping they lose is disgraceful. these are little kids playing a game they love. dont boo them, dont hope they lose. this isnt MLB!

It hurts me dearly that the Harlem team was hated on for doing absolutely nothing. Why b/c they beat your beloved little white boy teams? Did mommy and daddy hate that Latin kid that hit the game winning homerun b/c he did it againt your precious little white boy?

please!

grow up. I know for a fact that when this Harlem team went to the tournament the first thing people thought was "thugs". SHAME ON YOU!

The Little League World Series is a perfect example of what is wrong with this world. They say racism is not around anymore. That it doesnt exist. You gotta be kidding yourself!

The responses i've received so far prove that people still ignore the main issue. They only look at the skin color and geographical region.

FACE IT. the kids were from Harlem and people thought they had to have cheated to make it this far!

I'm disgusted!

lynchjm24 · 08-25-2002, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by YankeePride

nothing to investigate on a kid born in Worcester MA?

i didnt know that people born in Worcester, MA were an exception to the rule. I have been around the area a couple of times and I can not believe I did not realize how great the people were there.

dayam, now i'm gonna have to check my birth certificate. I wasnt born in Worcester so its impossible for me to really be 20 years old. Maybe i'm really 22 years old, being that I was born in New York.

Lynch, i dont know how serious you were here, but if you were 100% serious, i dont get you. How are you gonna say that there is nothing to investigate on a kid born in Worcester, MA? What makes that kid different from the Bronx, NY kid? You do not make any sense.

either he has a birth certificate that says he is the right age or not. It's pretty simple

really? that simple? so i guess someone born in New York doesnt have a birth certificate? now i'm really gonna have to double check my birth certificate. Not only may I be 22 years old, but I may not really even exist.

Danny Almonte wasn't born in the Bronx you moron.

My point is that there is nothing to INVESTIGATE for someone born in the US - either they have a legal birth certificate or not. Obviously you didn't follow the Bronx story last year - if you did you would realize that other countries don't have the type of record keeping that the United States does.

lynchjm24 · 08-25-2002, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by YankeePride
Specs, do you have a valid birth certificate?

i'm gonna guess you are gonna say yes.

ok, you decided to join a league that i also happen to manage. It is none of my business whether or not you are really 12, 13, 21, 24, wateva.

One day, you pitch and i notice you are dominating the opposition. I say, cant be possible. He does look too old. I bet this kid isnt really 13 years old.

I investigate.

Now answer this, did I know you had a valid birth certificate? No.

So please rephrase your comment. You said, danny almonte had an invalid birth certificate and was therefore investigated. Ummmm, please reread what you just said. How am I gonna investigate an invalid birth certificate. If its invalid then i wouldnt have to investigate, its already proof. the proper comment should have been, Danny Almonte was investigated and it was discovered that he had an invalid birth certificate.

So once again, i ask...why not investigate the MA or Kentucky kid and see if they have invalid birth certificates.

no one has given me a good answer yet. every answer i've received is exactly what the media and Little League told us. Obviously, I wouldnt raise this issue if I found the information given by the media and Little League valid.

as for what this is really about. I could care less who booed and who didnt. There was no need for booing. I dont care if the kid showboated or did not. The kid running the bases was 13 years old! How dare you boo a 13 year old. ITS THE FREAKIN LLWS! for crying out loud!

SHAME ON ANYONE WHO HATED THE HARLEM TEAM B/C THEY SHOWBOATED. you may have not liked it, but hate is a strong word and hoping they lose is disgraceful. these are little kids playing a game they love. dont boo them, dont hope they lose. this isnt MLB!

It hurts me dearly that the Harlem team was hated on for doing absolutely nothing. Why b/c they beat your beloved little white boy teams? Did mommy and daddy hate that Latin kid that hit the game winning homerun b/c he did it againt your precious little white boy?

please!

grow up. I know for a fact that when this Harlem team went to the tournament the first thing people thought was "thugs". SHAME ON YOU!

The Little League World Series is a perfect example of what is wrong with this world. They say racism is not around anymore. That it doesnt exist. You gotta be kidding yourself!

The responses i've received so far prove that people still ignore the main issue. They only look at the skin color and geographical region.

FACE IT. the kids were from Harlem and people thought they had to have cheated to make it this far!

I'm disgusted!

The kids in Harlem were investigated because some of them lived part time out of the area. If Worcester showed up with kids who lived in Springfield they would hear the same thing. Harlem was allowed to play because they understood that some of the kids had difficult family situations - and therefore it wasn't a big deal that they didn't always live within the boundries.

No one thought they were 'thugs', they acted like total jackasses.

You have no idea what you are talking about and just keep screaming racism.. Shut up.

In case you haven't noticed, the US rarely wins. But still, the event gets bigger and bigger, so it can't be that the Americans who watch are racist - because the only two teams I can think of that won from the US in recent memory are Trumbull and Toms River.

Cry all you want... Danny Almonte was 14 - so who was wrong - the little league that brought him to the LLWS or the people who were right in saying he was too old.

Carplos · 08-25-2002, 08:52 PM

I was rooting for them to lose, they're from NY, the could be black, white, asian, Moslem, Martian, I'd root for them to lose. I don't care if they showboat, I would if I was good, they're obviously a good team. But I was rooting against them. I hope a NY team NEVER makes it again.

New York should be contracted from the United States of America.

And for the record, I don't REALLY hate New Yawkers, I just always root against their teams.

Carplos · 08-25-2002, 08:54 PM

I was rooting against Harlem all along, before they showboated. I don't care if they're White, Black, Asian, Brown, Martian, or what, I always root against NY teams. I hope a NY team never makes it again.

rferry · 08-25-2002, 08:56 PM

i thought almonte's coach knew that his faked birth certificate said he turned 13 in march (rules state you must turn 13 after july 31st), but he ended up being even older than that.

atomheart · 08-25-2002, 09:04 PM

Quote:

SHAME ON ANYONE WHO HATED THE HARLEM TEAM B/C THEY SHOWBOATED. you may have not liked it, but hate is a strong word and hoping they lose is disgraceful. these are little kids playing a game they love. dont boo them, dont hope they lose. this isnt MLB!

You and I agree on most things, Yankee Pride. But not this. I will boo Harlem for showboating. I will boo their parents for not teaching them class. This has nothing to do with race. It's such an easy thing to play the race card nowadays.

I'm glad they lost. I will always be glad to see the asses lose, no matter what the sport, no matter what the age.

Furthermore, the investigation you speak of has nothing to do with race, but rather media density. Nothing more. It sells papers.

lynchjm24 · 08-25-2002, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Carplos
I was rooting for them to lose, they're from NY, the could be black, white, asian, Moslem, Martian, I'd root for them to lose. I don't care if they showboat, I would if I was good, they're obviously a good team. But I was rooting against them. I hope a NY team NEVER makes it again.

New York should be contracted from the United States of America.

And for the record, I don't REALLY hate New Yawkers, I just always root against their teams.

Carplos I agree with a lot of what you say man....... but New York is a great city, it's ok to hate the teams but it's a tremendous place. I hate the Boston teams, but it's still a great place.

08-25-2002, 02:49 PM	#1
CMH Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,057	Future issues with LLWS? Wiley from Page2 brings up a good question in this article: http://espn.go.com/page2/s/wiley/020823.html I've mentioned it before but i'll say it again. I dont want to think as if the problems with the New York teams in the LLWS is a racial issue. However, there is little standing against my observations and its obvious now that there are others who feel the very same. Can it really be a mistake that the New York teams are the only teams of color in the past two LLWS and both have been criticized heavily for things that many of the other little league teams do? Those things really involve two main topics: 1. Age...as i said before, Kentucky and MA both had kids that look well over the age of 13. I dont think they are older than 13, but my question is, why not the investigation? Yet last year a Latin boy from the Bronx gets investigated b/c of an issue with age. Yes the league was correct and there was an issue, but I personally feel the only reason anyone cared was b/c he was Latin and from the Bronx. 2. "Hotdoggin" it....uh yea, who doesnt do this? The Harlem team may have done it more than anyone else but every team in the LLWS had their own way of hotdoggin' it. Just b/c the Harlem team didnt do it "like everyone else" does not mean they were wrong and uncivilized. My main concern is that with the New York teams becoming more dominant in the past years, the LLWS and its officials (mainly the all-star managers of teams outside of New York) are worried that their white-infested league will soon become similar to major sports where players of color are the majority and whites are the minority. Its bound to happen, but with the raising acquisations and concerns, i'm only led to believe that the all-star managers are scared of these colored players. Remember, i'm not tryin to turn this into a racial issue and I know my statements dont necessarily support my former, but as i've said before I really do feel that something is up and there needs to be a stop to it. What do you guys think? And really be serious about this. Most of you probably dont realize how important this issue is and how much it means to me and other people of color. If any silver spoon fed individual wants to be clever to take this post into a different direction, i would advise you keep ya comments to yourself...or trust me, i will report you. i'm being serious. this is a serious topic.

08-25-2002, 06:55 PM	#13
CMH Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,057	Specs, do you have a valid birth certificate? i'm gonna guess you are gonna say yes. ok, you decided to join a league that i also happen to manage. It is none of my business whether or not you are really 12, 13, 21, 24, wateva. One day, you pitch and i notice you are dominating the opposition. I say, cant be possible. He does look too old. I bet this kid isnt really 13 years old. I investigate. Now answer this, did I know you had a valid birth certificate? No. So please rephrase your comment. You said, danny almonte had an invalid birth certificate and was therefore investigated. Ummmm, please reread what you just said. How am I gonna investigate an invalid birth certificate. If its invalid then i wouldnt have to investigate, its already proof. the proper comment should have been, Danny Almonte was investigated and it was discovered that he had an invalid birth certificate. So once again, i ask...why not investigate the MA or Kentucky kid and see if they have invalid birth certificates. no one has given me a good answer yet. every answer i've received is exactly what the media and Little League told us. Obviously, I wouldnt raise this issue if I found the information given by the media and Little League valid. as for what this is really about. I could care less who booed and who didnt. There was no need for booing. I dont care if the kid showboated or did not. The kid running the bases was 13 years old! How dare you boo a 13 year old. ITS THE FREAKIN LLWS! for crying out loud! SHAME ON ANYONE WHO HATED THE HARLEM TEAM B/C THEY SHOWBOATED. you may have not liked it, but hate is a strong word and hoping they lose is disgraceful. these are little kids playing a game they love. dont boo them, dont hope they lose. this isnt MLB! It hurts me dearly that the Harlem team was hated on for doing absolutely nothing. Why b/c they beat your beloved little white boy teams? Did mommy and daddy hate that Latin kid that hit the game winning homerun b/c he did it againt your precious little white boy? please! grow up. I know for a fact that when this Harlem team went to the tournament the first thing people thought was "thugs". SHAME ON YOU! The Little League World Series is a perfect example of what is wrong with this world. They say racism is not around anymore. That it doesnt exist. You gotta be kidding yourself! The responses i've received so far prove that people still ignore the main issue. They only look at the skin color and geographical region. FACE IT. the kids were from Harlem and people thought they had to have cheated to make it this far! I'm disgusted! Last edited by CMH; 08-25-2002 at 07:07 PM.

08-25-2002, 08:56 PM	#18
rferry All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2002 Location: DC Posts: 549	i thought almonte's coach knew that his faked birth certificate said he turned 13 in march (rules state you must turn 13 after july 31st), but he ended up being even older than that. __________________ please excuse my grammar, i read baseball weekly in my high school english classes.

08-25-2002, 04:37 PM	#3
CMH Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,057	correction, the Bronx was using A kid that was over the age of 13. and yes you are right. the other teams are using kids that look like they are older than 13 as opposed to the Bronx team that had a kid that was over 13. my question is, why didnt anyone question those kids that look like they are older than 13? someone is gonna say, i'm sure it was investigated, but i disagree. If it were investigated, it would be on the news. I could imagine the headlines now..."Another Danny Almonte!", "UH OH!, here we go again", "13?" etc. I didnt see or hear any of that which leads me to believe there was no investigation. I think you misunderstand my point. The point is that Danny Almonte was not investigated b/c he was 14 years old. If they knew he was 14, he wouldnt be investigated, he would have been disallowed to play immediately. He was investigated b/c he was dominant and looked like he was older than 13 years of age. The Kentucky kid and MA kid were dominating and look like they are older than 13. so why no investigation??? my only assumption is that there is more to the reasons Danny Almonte was investigated. Not only was he dominating and looked over 13, but he was Latino and from the Bronx. He was different. He came from an area where it is expected of you to remain in the streets and become unsuccessful in life. (The truth is the Bronx is no where close to as bad as other areas in the United States, but thats another argument for another thread). Danny Almonte was an example. All-Star managers were afraid of him and could not believe that a Latin kid from the Bronx could be this successful. Its impossible. So they realized, hey he looks like he isnt 13 and he is too dominant, something is up. Lets investigate. Yes they were right, trust me i have no ill effects of that. I am happy they found Almonte out. What I am unhappy with is the reason. No one thought the same about the Kentucky or MA kid. NO ONE! Its a fact, not an opinion. HAVE YOU READ A STORY QUESTIONING THEIR AGE??? why? I dont want to believe it, but all i could assume (and yes I know what happens when you assume, but i'm willing to take a stand) is that Almonte was more of a racial issue than an age issue. Its the only thing that explains the reason the Harlem team was questioned. I mean come on! who decides that maybe we should investigate this team and find out if all of them live in Harlem. First of all, just as Wiley mentioned, WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD LIE ABOUT LIVING IN HARLEM?! many would rather say they live somewhere else. these kids are being accussed of doing the complete opposite...rediculous. and guess what, the people who investigated were wrong. Yea one kid didnt exactly live in Harlem, but there was a special issue with it. I bet if you investigated the Kentucky team, or the Florida team, or wateva team, you'll find at least one kid who might be questionable in terms of where they live and if they do live in the little league team's area. The New York team's have been singled out two years in a row. No one has given me a specific reason. you dont know if a player is older than 13 or doesnt live in an area unless you investigate it first. This was not done with any other team besides Harlem. WHY? Give me a real reason. Dont say, b/c the kid was older than 13. Thats not a reason why you investigate. As i said before, you dont know the truth and thats why you investigate. The investigations grew from curiosity and speculations. No all-star manager speculated against any other team besides the New York teams. WHY if not race?

08-25-2002, 05:06 PM	#4
H I Mcdonough Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 291	I think a lot of people (i.e. white people, like myself) will dismiss this. They'll say it has nothing to do with the kids being black or Latin. But I think it does. And I don't think it's being done on purpose. Regardless of all this, something else that should be addressed is how GOOD it is for the game to have inner city teams in the little league world series and doing well. Baseball should be interested in recapturing some of the inner city youth sports interest from football and basketball. And that team being on tv and playing well is a good thing, showboating or not.

08-25-2002, 05:17 PM	#5
jlungs Bat Boy Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 3	Was the Phillipine team disqualified in 1992 investigated because they were from the Phillipines? In my opinion, in each case legitimate concerns were raised with the eligibility of players. Some turn out to be true, some don't. Race is not an issue, the issue is finding rules violations in successful teams.

08-25-2002, 05:24 PM	#6
CMH Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,057	well thats what i wanna hear. I dont want it to be a racial issue, i only ask the question b/c i'm concerned and curious. personally i do not think any of the players on the Kentucky or MA team were investigated. That is where my concern lies.

08-25-2002, 06:49 PM	#12
H I Mcdonough Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 291	I thought this was more about the supposed "hot-dogging" and "showboating" issue? Not the whole age investigation thing. Did I hear that the Harlem team was booed by the crowd when that kid did his Deion Sanders impression on the way to home plate?

08-25-2002, 08:52 PM	#16
Carplos Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,896 Infractions: 1/0 (0)	I was rooting for them to lose, they're from NY, the could be black, white, asian, Moslem, Martian, I'd root for them to lose. I don't care if they showboat, I would if I was good, they're obviously a good team. But I was rooting against them. I hope a NY team NEVER makes it again. New York should be contracted from the United States of America. And for the record, I don't REALLY hate New Yawkers, I just always root against their teams.

08-25-2002, 08:54 PM	#17
Carplos Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,896 Infractions: 1/0 (0)	I was rooting against Harlem all along, before they showboated. I don't care if they're White, Black, Asian, Brown, Martian, or what, I always root against NY teams. I hope a NY team never makes it again.