problem with depth charts i've not experienced before

asamford · 08-10-2002, 09:56 PM

if I have a guy set for 20% against LH and RH as a backup C, shouldn't he be starting 1 out of every 5 games? Why does this guy have only 1 start through 2 months of play? I've simmed hundreds of seasons with OOTP4 and this is the first i've ever encountered anything like this before...

ziimalan · 08-10-2002, 11:00 PM

has this plan of starting 1 out of every 5 games worked for you in the past? because I dont think it means he starts 20% of the games

Draft Dodger · 08-10-2002, 11:01 PM

I believe the way it works is that he doesn't start 20% of the games, but that each game he has a 20% chance of starting - not quite the same thing.

still, I'd think you'd be getting more starts than that.

/deja vu

ziimalan · 08-10-2002, 11:03 PM

lol

IatricSB · 08-11-2002, 06:46 AM

I was wondering the same thing (about depth charts). Recently, I made an outfielder have a 40% chance to play in LF and a 40% chance to play in RF plus a 40% change to play in 1B (and please, none of the expected stupid jokes about 120%). The other players listed in the depth chart for those position showe 0% for them. So it should have been between him and the starter as to who played.

Wasn't sure how much time he would see, but I was surprised that in the month of September, he only started 1 out of 22 games.

I also once put a player in the depth chart with 90% just to see what happened. Don't remember the exact results, but it was definitely under 25% that he started in. Anybody have a clue as to how it really works?

bigphesta · 08-11-2002, 01:56 PM

I dont' think it's a starting percentage, rather a SUBSTITUTION percentage... ie, in game. Why do I think this? Well I have one OFer who's really good and have his sub set to 1% then my other two of'ers are set to about 10 percent... the OF'er with 1% has NEVER missed an inning through the course of the season, while the OF'ers with the 10% have missed starts AND are frequently sat during the game, so I think it's a combo of both starts and substitutions, so that the sub plays 10% of the defensive innings through the course of the season... Just my thought and how I've tried to use it.

Draft Dodger · 08-11-2002, 02:58 PM

well, if I'm reading this right, it's supposed to be the % chance that a bench player has to start a game, and the % chance he gets substituted for during the game.

I haven't run any sort of test, but it doesn't seem like it works quite the way it should be sometimes.

"Depth Charts allow you to determine the frequency at which position players start games and are substituted for; for instance, you have the option of entering the the percentage probability that a selected player will get a start over the regular starter. You can also choose Auto Depth, which will create a depth chart for you using the game's artificial intelligence."

CMH · 08-11-2002, 03:51 PM

i've wondered the same thing. I wanted my DH to play 1B half of the time and my 1B to play some DH on the days the DH plays 1B.

I set it as high as 100% (after failing to see any changes).

At the end of the season my DH only played 1 game at 1B since I upped it to 100%. This was over the entire second half of the season.

WHY?!

Draft Dodger · 08-11-2002, 04:14 PM

I don't know for sure, but my suspicion is that fatigue is somehow messing up the "check for substitution" routine in the game.

I don't recall this happening in OOTP3 (but it's been a while) - which leads me to believe a new feature in 4 is affecting this.

IatricSB · 08-11-2002, 04:22 PM

I agree with you DD. I could have sworn that substitution used to work better and if you put in a guy at 25%, you could expect him to play quite often. But either fatigue, OOTP4, or a recent patch seems to have changed it.

asamford · 08-11-2002, 05:16 PM

well it seems like the AI is making decisions for me. When my starting catcher didn't have great ratings it had no problem playing my backup as much as I asked it too, but when I got a stud catcher he ended up starting 146 games, which is too many for a catcher and somewhat unrealistic, even after I'd set my backup at 20%, which I would hope start him on average of once every 5 games, and any time the starter happened to be tired. I've never really checked to see how often someone would start based on their %, it seemed like guys I gave high %'s to would get a decent # of starts, this was the first time I had noticed a guy I'd given a pretty high percentage harldy play at all.

jerrycapo · 08-13-2002, 09:35 PM

I have noticed this myself. I typically let the AI set my depth chart for me and then bump the back up catcher to 20%. This seems to be the norm in MLB today, so I tr to use it. I have a stud catcher and use minor league call ups for the backup.

I think the AI bases the % of playing time based on how good the starter is compared to the back up regardless of depth chart settings. As my backup gets more ML experience, hence higher ratings, he gets more playing time. The first season I looked at this my back up (a rookie at the time) would only play (not necessarily start) 1 to 2 games per month. By the fourth year he was playing between 5 and 8 games per month.

So I believe the AI determines the depth chart regardless of settings.

All the best,
Jerry

IatricSB · 08-13-2002, 09:54 PM

I have two outfielders competing for a spot and wasn't sure who to play. I made one the starter and the other the replacement at 40%. Turns out the replacement did start in about 40% of the games. I think I'll try a test sub where I have the same outfielder start, but a lousy player at 40% behind him to see if it still gives time or ignores it.

fluharty · 08-14-2002, 09:23 AM

This is something that bugz the heck out of me too. I wanted my backup SS to get 25% I understand this means there's a 25% chance hell get a start- which is plain STUPID, by the way; I'm sure LLoyd MacClenden has a coin he flips to see if Craig Wilson or Armando Rios will get the start in RF- but ignoring my opinion of the realism of substitution percents, they dont always seem to work. Even listed at 25% my SS has gotten a TOTAL of 2 at bats through two months of play!!! Meanwhile, I have a CF listed at 25% who has about 1/3 the AB of my starter. So for him, is appears to work ok. For the SS, not even close!

ZXLT · 08-14-2002, 10:50 AM

I thought it just meant that, if a lefthanded starter was starting against his team, there is a 20% chance that the guy will start?

Steve G · 08-15-2002, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by YankeePride
i've wondered the same thing. I wanted my DH to play 1B half of the time and my 1B to play some DH on the days the DH plays 1B.

I set it as high as 100% (after failing to see any changes).

At the end of the season my DH only played 1 game at 1B since I upped it to 100%. This was over the entire second half of the season.

WHY?!

What was the first guy on the depth chart's starting % at DH? If you have a player starting at one position and subbing another with say 50%, then my assumption is that the will play the other positions 50% of the TIME HE's NOT ALREADY PLAYING THE FIRST. So if he's only misses 10 games and the first position, he should play at the second.

SufferingSoxFan · 08-15-2002, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by asamford
if I have a guy set for 20% against LH and RH as a backup C, shouldn't he be starting 1 out of every 5 games? Why does this guy have only 1 start through 2 months of play? I've simmed hundreds of seasons with OOTP4 and this is the first i've ever encountered anything like this before...

The only thing that I would suggest is make sure your starting lineups are not in conflict with the depth charts. or increase the percentages and see what happens.

Seamhead · 08-15-2002, 02:47 PM

I had the opposite problem yesterday when my backup shortstop, who has a 10% substitute percentage, started all three games of a series, even though my regular shortstop is healthy. Granted, my regular shortstop is struggling at the plate, but I was surprised to see the AI throw my backup in there for an entire series.

Big Train · 08-16-2002, 07:53 PM

A related question I've wondered about. I have a really good player and want him to play every game he can, but if he's tired or has an injury or something I want to tell the AI who to start in his place. Will putting the sub in the depth chart with a 1% chance of starting accomplish this?

endgame · 08-19-2002, 01:29 AM

I haven't found an easy way to identify Tired in the everyday players. They show up in the lineup (green) and the backups' percentages (ranging from 1% to about 20%) don't seem to kick into play 'because' of the Tired status - at least as it pertain to non-pitchers.

I click on the first non-pitcher and scroll through Next bars until I've surveyed the roster and make changes as needed. Most of the time this is unnecessary, but with the schedule editor there are times when a pretty pressing calendar makes for some equally tired players.

08-10-2002, 09:56 PM	#1
asamford Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Snellville, Georgia Posts: 1,769	problem with depth charts i've not experienced before if I have a guy set for 20% against LH and RH as a backup C, shouldn't he be starting 1 out of every 5 games? Why does this guy have only 1 start through 2 months of play? I've simmed hundreds of seasons with OOTP4 and this is the first i've ever encountered anything like this before...

08-10-2002, 11:00 PM	#2
ziimalan Major Leagues Join Date: May 2002 Location: new jeru Posts: 392	has this plan of starting 1 out of every 5 games worked for you in the past? because I dont think it means he starts 20% of the games __________________ hmmmmm...

08-10-2002, 11:01 PM	#3
Draft Dodger Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: formerly of the OTBL Posts: 4,113	I believe the way it works is that he doesn't start 20% of the games, but that each game he has a 20% chance of starting - not quite the same thing. still, I'd think you'd be getting more starts than that. /deja vu __________________ Draft Dodger (Anarchy: Anything goes. The Draft Dodger viewpoint.) Sophmoric[sic] Member of the OOTP Boards (It's not OOTP; it's your computer) 15 GB Webhosting for $6.95 a month IMO we are best off abandoning that sinking ship that is Off Topic to the rats infesting it and just starting a whole new Baseball Forum from scratch.

08-10-2002, 11:03 PM	#4
ziimalan Major Leagues Join Date: May 2002 Location: new jeru Posts: 392	lol __________________ hmmmmm...

08-11-2002, 06:46 AM	#5
IatricSB Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: California Posts: 3,493	I was wondering the same thing (about depth charts). Recently, I made an outfielder have a 40% chance to play in LF and a 40% chance to play in RF plus a 40% change to play in 1B (and please, none of the expected stupid jokes about 120%). The other players listed in the depth chart for those position showe 0% for them. So it should have been between him and the starter as to who played. Wasn't sure how much time he would see, but I was surprised that in the month of September, he only started 1 out of 22 games. I also once put a player in the depth chart with 90% just to see what happened. Don't remember the exact results, but it was definitely under 25% that he started in. Anybody have a clue as to how it really works? __________________ Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body; but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow! What a Ride!" Chicago(N) - Boys of Summer Oakland - 20th Century League Bakersfield - Wild Things Brooklyn - QBA Dodge City - NBSL California - ABC Dodger's Senioriest fan on the OOTP Boards

08-11-2002, 01:56 PM	#6
bigphesta Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Des Moines, Iowa Posts: 1,366	I dont' think it's a starting percentage, rather a SUBSTITUTION percentage... ie, in game. Why do I think this? Well I have one OFer who's really good and have his sub set to 1% then my other two of'ers are set to about 10 percent... the OF'er with 1% has NEVER missed an inning through the course of the season, while the OF'ers with the 10% have missed starts AND are frequently sat during the game, so I think it's a combo of both starts and substitutions, so that the sub plays 10% of the defensive innings through the course of the season... Just my thought and how I've tried to use it.

08-11-2002, 02:58 PM	#7
Draft Dodger Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: formerly of the OTBL Posts: 4,113	well, if I'm reading this right, it's supposed to be the % chance that a bench player has to start a game, and the % chance he gets substituted for during the game. I haven't run any sort of test, but it doesn't seem like it works quite the way it should be sometimes. "Depth Charts allow you to determine the frequency at which position players start games and are substituted for; for instance, you have the option of entering the the percentage probability that a selected player will get a start over the regular starter. You can also choose Auto Depth, which will create a depth chart for you using the game's artificial intelligence." __________________ Draft Dodger (Anarchy: Anything goes. The Draft Dodger viewpoint.) Sophmoric[sic] Member of the OOTP Boards (It's not OOTP; it's your computer) 15 GB Webhosting for $6.95 a month IMO we are best off abandoning that sinking ship that is Off Topic to the rats infesting it and just starting a whole new Baseball Forum from scratch.

08-11-2002, 03:51 PM	#8
CMH Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,057	i've wondered the same thing. I wanted my DH to play 1B half of the time and my 1B to play some DH on the days the DH plays 1B. I set it as high as 100% (after failing to see any changes). At the end of the season my DH only played 1 game at 1B since I upped it to 100%. This was over the entire second half of the season. WHY?!

08-11-2002, 04:14 PM	#9
Draft Dodger Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: formerly of the OTBL Posts: 4,113	I don't know for sure, but my suspicion is that fatigue is somehow messing up the "check for substitution" routine in the game. I don't recall this happening in OOTP3 (but it's been a while) - which leads me to believe a new feature in 4 is affecting this. __________________ Draft Dodger (Anarchy: Anything goes. The Draft Dodger viewpoint.) Sophmoric[sic] Member of the OOTP Boards (It's not OOTP; it's your computer) 15 GB Webhosting for $6.95 a month IMO we are best off abandoning that sinking ship that is Off Topic to the rats infesting it and just starting a whole new Baseball Forum from scratch.

08-11-2002, 04:22 PM	#10
IatricSB Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: California Posts: 3,493	I agree with you DD. I could have sworn that substitution used to work better and if you put in a guy at 25%, you could expect him to play quite often. But either fatigue, OOTP4, or a recent patch seems to have changed it. __________________ Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body; but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow! What a Ride!" Chicago(N) - Boys of Summer Oakland - 20th Century League Bakersfield - Wild Things Brooklyn - QBA Dodge City - NBSL California - ABC Dodger's Senioriest fan on the OOTP Boards

08-11-2002, 05:16 PM	#11
asamford Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Snellville, Georgia Posts: 1,769	well it seems like the AI is making decisions for me. When my starting catcher didn't have great ratings it had no problem playing my backup as much as I asked it too, but when I got a stud catcher he ended up starting 146 games, which is too many for a catcher and somewhat unrealistic, even after I'd set my backup at 20%, which I would hope start him on average of once every 5 games, and any time the starter happened to be tired. I've never really checked to see how often someone would start based on their %, it seemed like guys I gave high %'s to would get a decent # of starts, this was the first time I had noticed a guy I'd given a pretty high percentage harldy play at all.

08-13-2002, 09:35 PM	#12
jerrycapo Major Leagues Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 411	I have noticed this myself. I typically let the AI set my depth chart for me and then bump the back up catcher to 20%. This seems to be the norm in MLB today, so I tr to use it. I have a stud catcher and use minor league call ups for the backup. I think the AI bases the % of playing time based on how good the starter is compared to the back up regardless of depth chart settings. As my backup gets more ML experience, hence higher ratings, he gets more playing time. The first season I looked at this my back up (a rookie at the time) would only play (not necessarily start) 1 to 2 games per month. By the fourth year he was playing between 5 and 8 games per month. So I believe the AI determines the depth chart regardless of settings. All the best, Jerry

08-13-2002, 09:54 PM	#13
IatricSB Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: California Posts: 3,493	I have two outfielders competing for a spot and wasn't sure who to play. I made one the starter and the other the replacement at 40%. Turns out the replacement did start in about 40% of the games. I think I'll try a test sub where I have the same outfielder start, but a lousy player at 40% behind him to see if it still gives time or ignores it. __________________ Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body; but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow! What a Ride!" Chicago(N) - Boys of Summer Oakland - 20th Century League Bakersfield - Wild Things Brooklyn - QBA Dodge City - NBSL California - ABC Dodger's Senioriest fan on the OOTP Boards

08-14-2002, 09:23 AM	#14
fluharty All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Morgantown, WV Posts: 1,023	This is something that bugz the heck out of me too. I wanted my backup SS to get 25% I understand this means there's a 25% chance hell get a start- which is plain STUPID, by the way; I'm sure LLoyd MacClenden has a coin he flips to see if Craig Wilson or Armando Rios will get the start in RF- but ignoring my opinion of the realism of substitution percents, they dont always seem to work. Even listed at 25% my SS has gotten a TOTAL of 2 at bats through two months of play!!! Meanwhile, I have a CF listed at 25% who has about 1/3 the AB of my starter. So for him, is appears to work ok. For the SS, not even close!

08-14-2002, 10:50 AM	#15
ZXLT Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Oregon Posts: 261	I thought it just meant that, if a lefthanded starter was starting against his team, there is a 20% chance that the guy will start?

08-15-2002, 02:47 PM	#18
Seamhead Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Portland,OR Posts: 89	I had the opposite problem yesterday when my backup shortstop, who has a 10% substitute percentage, started all three games of a series, even though my regular shortstop is healthy. Granted, my regular shortstop is struggling at the plate, but I was surprised to see the AI throw my backup in there for an entire series.

08-16-2002, 07:53 PM	#19
Big Train Major Leagues Join Date: May 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 402	A related question I've wondered about. I have a really good player and want him to play every game he can, but if he's tired or has an injury or something I want to tell the AI who to start in his place. Will putting the sub in the depth chart with a 1% chance of starting accomplish this?

08-19-2002, 01:29 AM	#20
endgame Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 16,842	I haven't found an easy way to identify Tired in the everyday players. They show up in the lineup (green) and the backups' percentages (ranging from 1% to about 20%) don't seem to kick into play 'because' of the Tired status - at least as it pertain to non-pitchers. I click on the first non-pitcher and scroll through Next bars until I've surveyed the roster and make changes as needed. Most of the time this is unnecessary, but with the schedule editor there are times when a pretty pressing calendar makes for some equally tired players. __________________ "Try again. Fail again. Fail better." -- Samuel Beckett _____________________________________________