Park Factors

LASpirit · 11-21-2006, 01:11 PM

When a players stats are loaded into OOTP 2006, are there any adjustments made to those stats based on park factors? The reason I ask is I want to run a custom league using historical stats. So if i load Ryan Howards 2006 stats but he is listed as being on the Nationals, will OOTP adjust his 58 HRs for playing in Washington or will OOTP assume he hit 58 HRs with half of them in the Nationals park?

Thanks.

disposableheros · 11-21-2006, 01:20 PM

58 homers is 58 homers. no thought is put into where they were hit.

ctorg · 11-21-2006, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LASpirit

When a players stats are loaded into OOTP 2006, are there any adjustments made to those stats based on park factors? The reason I ask is I want to run a custom league using historical stats. So if i load Ryan Howards 2006 stats but he is listed as being on the Nationals, will OOTP adjust his 58 HRs for playing in Washington or will OOTP assume he hit 58 HRs with half of them in the Nationals park?

Thanks.

It would be reasonably simple (though it would take time) to use MS Access to create a database that is normalized for park factors.

andymac · 11-21-2006, 01:41 PM

You may be interested in the Translated Stats that Baseball Prospectus has that basically tries to translate baseball stats througout history so that they can be compared next to each other. These stats also have park factor adjustments.

Some examples:

Code:

			AB	H	2B	3B	HR	BB	SO	BA	OBP	SLG

Ryan Howard '06		581	182	25	1	58	108	181	.313	.425	.659
Translated		559	172	26	1	56	105	163	.308	.424	.658


Babe Ruth '27		540	192	29	8	60	137	89	.356	.486	.772
Translated		554	187	27	1	78	137	183	.338	.469	.812

Vinny Castilla '98	645	206	28	4	46	40	89	.319	.362	.589
Translated		636	175	27	4	41	38	82	.275	.322	.524

You can look up any player at www.baseballprospectus.com

LASpirit · 11-21-2006, 03:15 PM

So if 58 HRs is 58HRs, how are park factors incorporated into the game. Its seems to me that if the park factors are not part of the equation for determining the player model, then how can they be used in the game at all?

Am I thinking about this correctly? For the sake of argument, lets say Soriano hit 50 HRs in 2006 and Howard hit 50 HRs in 2006. We load this data into OOTP thru the lahman dB and no park adjustments are made to the player model used to determine pitcher/batter outcomes. If this is the case, then either ballpark factors have no role in OOTP and the replay of 2006 has Soriano and Howard hitting approx 50HRs, or ballpark factors are included in the replay and Howard hits quite a few more HRs than Soriano b/c of their respective ballparks.

Which is it?

P.S. ctorg, thanks for the advice. That's exactly what I plan to do. This question is taken from my earlier, larger post "Custom League with psuedo historical dB" to which no one replied.

Thanks!

bp_ · 11-21-2006, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LASpirit

So if 58 HRs is 58HRs, how are park factors incorporated into the game. Its seems to me that if the park factors are not part of the equation for determining the player model, then how can they be used in the game at all?

Am I thinking about this correctly? For the sake of argument, lets say Soriano hit 50 HRs in 2006 and Howard hit 50 HRs in 2006. We load this data into OOTP thru the lahman dB and no park adjustments are made to the player model used to determine pitcher/batter outcomes. If this is the case, then either ballpark factors have no role in OOTP and the replay of 2006 has Soriano and Howard hitting approx 50HRs, or ballpark factors are included in the replay and Howard hits quite a few more HRs than Soriano b/c of their respective ballparks.

Which is it?

Thanks!

I'm not sure that I can totally answer your question but I do know that park factors are applied during a simmed game. Perhaps you are thinking of OOTP as a game that does historical replay. I think the people here will tell you that is not necessarily what OOTP does.

fhomess · 11-21-2006, 03:58 PM

I think this is correct:
OOTP loads players from the database without respect to translating those statistics. Any translations need to be done before loading the stats. This means that OOTP considers the stats as being loaded to have all been generated in the exact same conditions.

Those stats are converted into ratings, which is what the game uses to determine batter-pitcher outcomes.

During the batter-pitcher outcome determination, the ballpark in which the game is being played will affect the outcome. It's your responsibility to make sure the ballparks in OOTP play the way they would in real life if you're trying to recreate an MLB season. OOTP doesn't make those adjustments for you.

In summary:
Ballpark factors are not considered when loading players.
Ballpark factors are considered when generating game results.

andymac · 11-21-2006, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LASpirit

So if 58 HRs is 58HRs, how are park factors incorporated into the game. Its seems to me that if the park factors are not part of the equation for determining the player model, then how can they be used in the game at all?

Am I thinking about this correctly? For the sake of argument, lets say Soriano hit 50 HRs in 2006 and Howard hit 50 HRs in 2006. We load this data into OOTP thru the lahman dB and no park adjustments are made to the player model used to determine pitcher/batter outcomes. If this is the case, then either ballpark factors have no role in OOTP and the replay of 2006 has Soriano and Howard hitting approx 50HRs, or ballpark factors are included in the replay and Howard hits quite a few more HRs than Soriano b/c of their respective ballparks.

Which is it?

P.S. ctorg, thanks for the advice. That's exactly what I plan to do. This question is taken from my earlier, larger post "Custom League with psuedo historical dB" to which no one replied.

Thanks!

OOTP doesn't know the park factors of historic parks, so unless you manually get them into the game by entering the park factors or using a database that adjusts for them it isn't going to be using any for historic sims.

In the regular sims, the game generates park factors for all of the ballparks that are created and applies them to everything that happens in-game.

LASpirit · 11-21-2006, 04:15 PM

That's great information. So if I understand this correctly, then the following should be my approach:

I'm trying to run a custom league with historical players using outcome models that reflect the players true ability. I'm going to generate a lahman type dB using MS Access that will input park neutral statistics. Generally, all hitters from the Rockies will be down graded (humidor not-with-standing) and all hitters from the Nationals will be upgraded, and vice versa for pitchers.

These stats will go to generate the models for pitcher/batter outcomes. Any park factors that I include will affect the outcomes only. So if Soriano plays in a park like Colorado in this custom league, he should get two bumps in performance, one during his park neutralization from the Nationals park when data is loaded to OOTP, and a second one whenever he is playing in Colorado, yes?

Thanks for the info.

andymac · 11-21-2006, 04:24 PM

Yep, you've got it figured out.

LASpirit · 11-21-2006, 05:13 PM

Thanks for your help.

Markus Heinsohn · 11-21-2006, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andymac

OOTP doesn't know the park factors of historic parks, so unless you manually get them into the game by entering the park factors or using a database that adjusts for them it isn't going to be using any for historic sims.

That's incorrect. The Lahman DB has simple park factors for ballparks, and the game uses them when importing the players and calculating the ratings.

So hitter from Colorado have lower ratings than their stats would suggest...

LASpirit · 11-21-2006, 06:08 PM

Markus,

Thank you. Is there somewhere that clearly defines where these are located in the lahman dB (i'll check that site again). (edit: I found the readme file.)

It seems to me that I would be better off with loading all the data as park neutral after adjusting them with more advanced park factors, setting all the lahman dB park factors to 100 and then manually adjusting the park factors in OOTP.

Would you recommend this or do you propose a better solution?

Thanks for your help.

-Scott

StyxNCa · 11-21-2006, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

That's incorrect. The Lahman DB has simple park factors for ballparks, and the game uses them when importing the players and calculating the ratings.

So hitter from Colorado have lower ratings than their stats would suggest...

So do I need to "normalize" all parks so that the avg. in each catagory is 100 or not?

Curtis · 11-22-2006, 01:05 AM

I would assume that if (for example) your ML parks average a .9 for home runs, you'll just hit fewer home runs than you would in the 'real' majors.

That's what I've done for my Oriental universe. The parks with the highest batting average and home run modifiers, lowest double and triple modifiers, and smallest dimensions and lowest fences are at the lowest levels of play. At the IL level extra base hits are more common, but singles and homers less so, and every team plays in a canyon with very high walls. I'm hoping this will counter the game's tendency to have minor leaguers hit .200 with 6 homers for the season.

ctorg · 11-22-2006, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

That's incorrect. The Lahman DB has simple park factors for ballparks, and the game uses them when importing the players and calculating the ratings.

So hitter from Colorado have lower ratings than their stats would suggest...

That's interesting. I didn't realize OOTP actually used the park factors in determining ratings. That's actually really great to know.

11-21-2006, 01:11 PM	#1
LASpirit Bat Boy Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 14	Park Factors When a players stats are loaded into OOTP 2006, are there any adjustments made to those stats based on park factors? The reason I ask is I want to run a custom league using historical stats. So if i load Ryan Howards 2006 stats but he is listed as being on the Nationals, will OOTP adjust his 58 HRs for playing in Washington or will OOTP assume he hit 58 HRs with half of them in the Nationals park? Thanks.

11-21-2006, 01:20 PM	#2
disposableheros Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 4,332	58 homers is 58 homers. no thought is put into where they were hit. __________________ 2 Wild Cards, 11 Division Champs, 4 League Champs, 3 World Champs, and 3 Best GM awards Baseball Maelstrom - New York Mets - 180-149 .547 Corporate League Baseball - Coke Buzz - 889-649 .578 Western Hemisphere Baseball League - Santiago Saints - 672-793 .459 Record - 2428-2271 .517

11-21-2006, 01:41 PM	#4
andymac Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Effingham, IL Posts: 5,725	You may be interested in the Translated Stats that Baseball Prospectus has that basically tries to translate baseball stats througout history so that they can be compared next to each other. These stats also have park factor adjustments. Some examples: Code: AB H 2B 3B HR BB SO BA OBP SLG Ryan Howard '06 581 182 25 1 58 108 181 .313 .425 .659 Translated 559 172 26 1 56 105 163 .308 .424 .658 Babe Ruth '27 540 192 29 8 60 137 89 .356 .486 .772 Translated 554 187 27 1 78 137 183 .338 .469 .812 Vinny Castilla '98 645 206 28 4 46 40 89 .319 .362 .589 Translated 636 175 27 4 41 38 82 .275 .322 .524 You can look up any player at www.baseballprospectus.com __________________ June Madness: Links FTB: andymac

11-21-2006, 03:15 PM	#5
LASpirit Bat Boy Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 14	So if 58 HRs is 58HRs, how are park factors incorporated into the game. Its seems to me that if the park factors are not part of the equation for determining the player model, then how can they be used in the game at all? Am I thinking about this correctly? For the sake of argument, lets say Soriano hit 50 HRs in 2006 and Howard hit 50 HRs in 2006. We load this data into OOTP thru the lahman dB and no park adjustments are made to the player model used to determine pitcher/batter outcomes. If this is the case, then either ballpark factors have no role in OOTP and the replay of 2006 has Soriano and Howard hitting approx 50HRs, or ballpark factors are included in the replay and Howard hits quite a few more HRs than Soriano b/c of their respective ballparks. Which is it? P.S. ctorg, thanks for the advice. That's exactly what I plan to do. This question is taken from my earlier, larger post "Custom League with psuedo historical dB" to which no one replied. Thanks! Last edited by LASpirit; 11-21-2006 at 03:18 PM.

11-21-2006, 03:58 PM	#7
fhomess Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 3,651	I think this is correct: OOTP loads players from the database without respect to translating those statistics. Any translations need to be done before loading the stats. This means that OOTP considers the stats as being loaded to have all been generated in the exact same conditions. Those stats are converted into ratings, which is what the game uses to determine batter-pitcher outcomes. During the batter-pitcher outcome determination, the ballpark in which the game is being played will affect the outcome. It's your responsibility to make sure the ballparks in OOTP play the way they would in real life if you're trying to recreate an MLB season. OOTP doesn't make those adjustments for you. In summary: Ballpark factors are not considered when loading players. Ballpark factors are considered when generating game results. __________________ StatsLab- PHP/MySQL based utilities for Online Leagues Baseball Cards - Full list of known templates and documentation on card development. Last edited by fhomess; 11-21-2006 at 04:00 PM.

11-21-2006, 04:15 PM	#9
LASpirit Bat Boy Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 14	That's great information. So if I understand this correctly, then the following should be my approach: I'm trying to run a custom league with historical players using outcome models that reflect the players true ability. I'm going to generate a lahman type dB using MS Access that will input park neutral statistics. Generally, all hitters from the Rockies will be down graded (humidor not-with-standing) and all hitters from the Nationals will be upgraded, and vice versa for pitchers. These stats will go to generate the models for pitcher/batter outcomes. Any park factors that I include will affect the outcomes only. So if Soriano plays in a park like Colorado in this custom league, he should get two bumps in performance, one during his park neutralization from the Nationals park when data is loaded to OOTP, and a second one whenever he is playing in Colorado, yes? Thanks for the info. Last edited by LASpirit; 11-21-2006 at 04:25 PM.

11-21-2006, 04:24 PM	#10
andymac Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Effingham, IL Posts: 5,725	Yep, you've got it figured out. __________________ June Madness: Links FTB: andymac

11-21-2006, 05:13 PM	#11
LASpirit Bat Boy Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 14	Thanks for your help. __________________ Continental Baseball Association Federal League West Champs: 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 Federal League Pennants: 1999, 2000, 2001 CBA Champions: 1999, 2000, 2001

11-21-2006, 06:08 PM	#13
LASpirit Bat Boy Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 14	Markus, Thank you. Is there somewhere that clearly defines where these are located in the lahman dB (i'll check that site again). (edit: I found the readme file.) It seems to me that I would be better off with loading all the data as park neutral after adjusting them with more advanced park factors, setting all the lahman dB park factors to 100 and then manually adjusting the park factors in OOTP. Would you recommend this or do you propose a better solution? Thanks for your help. -Scott __________________ Continental Baseball Association Federal League West Champs: 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 Federal League Pennants: 1999, 2000, 2001 CBA Champions: 1999, 2000, 2001 Last edited by LASpirit; 11-21-2006 at 06:16 PM.

11-22-2006, 01:05 AM	#15
Curtis Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Watertown, New York Posts: 4,567	I would assume that if (for example) your ML parks average a .9 for home runs, you'll just hit fewer home runs than you would in the 'real' majors. That's what I've done for my Oriental universe. The parks with the highest batting average and home run modifiers, lowest double and triple modifiers, and smallest dimensions and lowest fences are at the lowest levels of play. At the IL level extra base hits are more common, but singles and homers less so, and every team plays in a canyon with very high walls. I'm hoping this will counter the game's tendency to have minor leaguers hit .200 with 6 homers for the season.