Well . . . shoot. (Aramis Ramirez to leave Cubs)

CHCfan · 11-11-2006, 11:50 PM

link

It's not techincally a certainty yet, but the brief Cubs/A-Ram era appears to be over.

bababui · 11-12-2006, 12:19 AM

Aramis...Welcome to Anaheim

CHCfan · 11-12-2006, 12:24 AM

Shea Hilenbrand/Mark Derosa/Some Other Crappy 3B . . . Welcome to Chicago

bababui · 11-12-2006, 12:25 AM

But they most likely will also end up with JD Drew..and a healthy Pryor and Wood. All is not lost.

CHCfan · 11-12-2006, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bababui

But they most likely will also end up with JD Drew..and a healthy Pryor and Wood. All is not lost.

I guess this explains my pessimism: I don't see any of those three thing happening. If they do end up with Drew, I can only imagine him landing on the DL, as well.

JDOldSchool · 11-12-2006, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bababui

Aramis...Welcome to Anaheim

He's atrocious on the bases, even worse defensively, and a total dog nearly 100% of the time. I'm not all about "clutch" by any means, but Ramirez is the prime example of the guy who doesn't come through when it counts (like, in April/May when your team is relying on him) and now that he's going to get a whole lotta paper I see no reason why he puts forth any real effort.

CHCfan · 11-12-2006, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDOldSchool

He's atrocious on the bases, even worse defensively, and a total dog nearly 100% of the time. I'm not all about "clutch" by any means, but Ramirez is the prime example of the guy who doesn't come through when it counts (like, in April/May when your team is relying on him) and now that he's going to get a whole lotta paper I see no reason why he puts forth any real effort.

The media bashing of Aramis was almost as bad as the media bashing of A-Rod. Any team with a player of either of their calibur is lucky to have them. A hitter who averages over .300/.350/.360 with 35 homers can easily be forgiven for "loafing it" on groundouts and a slow start.

He deserves $16-18M and if, along with a supposed hometown discount, Jim Hendry won't pay him that . . . I am very disappointed, but I wish Aramis luck wherever it becomes appreciated.

darkhorse · 11-12-2006, 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDOldSchool

Ramirez is the prime example of the guy who doesn't come through when it counts

The numbers don't seem to support this theory.

http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/Jramia0010.htm

mikev · 11-12-2006, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHCfan

The media bashing of Aramis was almost as bad as the media bashing of A-Rod. Any team with a player of either of their calibur is lucky to have them. A hitter who averages over .300/.350/.360 with 35 homers can easily be forgiven for "loafing it" on groundouts and a slow start.

He deserves $16-18M and if, along with a supposed hometown discount, Jim Hendry won't pay him that . . . I am very disappointed, but I wish Aramis luck wherever it becomes appreciated.

I, for one, would expect slightly more than a .710 OPS from a guy that hits 35 homers but plays pretty shoddy defense :P

CHCfan · 11-12-2006, 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikev

I, for one, would expect slightly more than a .710 OPS from a guy that hits 35 homers but plays pretty shoddy defense :P

I wouldn't say his defense is shoddy at all. After joing the Cubs, he brought with him a reputation of being terrible in the field. In his three years in Chicago he has improved greatly - I'd say his range is average and his arm is very good. Last year he had 10 errors - not bad at all.

I won't argue OPS (or most measures of defensive ability), because frankly, I don't entirely understand them, but as someone who has watched him play just about every day, I can say he is probably among the elite thirdbasemen in baseball.

ihatenames · 11-12-2006, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHCfan

I wouldn't say his defense is shoddy at all. After joing the Cubs, he brought with him a reputation of being terrible in the field. In his three years in Chicago he has improved greatly - I'd say his range is average and his arm is very good. Last year he had 10 errors - not bad at all.

I won't argue OPS (or most measures of defensive ability), because frankly, I don't entirely understand them, but as someone who has watched him play just about every day, I can say he is probably among the elite thirdbasemen in baseball.

He won't be winning any gold gloves. But i think he is the defination of average at third. According to the fielding bible he ranked 16th in third basemen. Before coming to the cubs he was terrible. Now he's just average perhaps a little below average.

Cowboys3356 · 11-12-2006, 11:24 AM

I love how things just keeping getting worse for the Cubs. Hope has left Chicago and the season has yet to begin.

The Cardinals are the World Series Champions and the Cubs have nothing to look forward to expect a 100 loss season. I love it!!!

CMH · 11-12-2006, 12:02 PM

Despite his offensive production, I'm still a bit surprised that Ramirez will command so much in the open market.

bababui · 11-12-2006, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YankeePride

Despite his offensive production, I'm still a bit surprised that Ramirez will command so much in the open market.

The number of good 3Bmen is shockingly low.

CMH · 11-12-2006, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bababui

The number of good 3Bmen is shockingly low.

True. But, usually I would think perception would equal value. Ramirez has never really been perceived as a quality all-star player. I'm not saying people doubt his offensive ability. I'm just saying that he is barely mentioned amongst guys like Chavez, Rolen, Rodriguez, Crede, and Cabrera.

jaxmagicman · 11-12-2006, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YankeePride

True. But, usually I would think perception would equal value. Ramirez has never really been perceived as a quality all-star player. I'm not saying people doubt his offensive ability. I'm just saying that he is barely mentioned amongst guys like Chavez, Rolen, Rodriguez, Crede, and Cabrera.

Not to mention Wright.

CMH · 11-12-2006, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

Not to mention Wright.

David Wright is in a class of his own.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...ilver/060418_2

Sdpm100 · 11-12-2006, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHCfan

Shea Hilenbrand/Mark Derosa/Some Other Crappy 3B . . . Welcome to Chicago

If you get DeRosa you can always play him at another position. He is very versatile you know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by YankeePride

David Wright is in a class of his own.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...ilver/060418_2

Thanks for the link, the write-up for #7 is very apt IMO.

mlyons · 11-12-2006, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YankeePride

David Wright is in a class of his own.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...ilver/060418_2

I don't think you can really call him a class of his own based on that article. Sure, Silver's got him as the #2 guy in baseball, but he's got two of the other third basemen in the discussion at #3 and #4. I also imagine Cabrera's shot past Wright and Rodriguez in Silver's estimation since the article was written back in April.

Jordan · 11-12-2006, 02:15 PM

I reeeeeealllly hope he resigns. I call my self a fairweather Cubs fan because they aren't the only team I have allegiances with. And the fact that it's my city.

If he's gone, they won't win 60 games.

11-11-2006, 11:50 PM	#1
CHCfan All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Grand Island, NE Posts: 1,117	Well . . . shoot. (Aramis Ramirez to leave Cubs) link It's not techincally a certainty yet, but the brief Cubs/A-Ram era appears to be over.

11-12-2006, 12:24 AM	#3
CHCfan All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Grand Island, NE Posts: 1,117	Shea Hilenbrand/Mark Derosa/Some Other Crappy 3B . . . Welcome to Chicago

11-12-2006, 11:24 AM	#12
Cowboys3356 All Star Starter Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,572	I love how things just keeping getting worse for the Cubs. Hope has left Chicago and the season has yet to begin. The Cardinals are the World Series Champions and the Cubs have nothing to look forward to expect a 100 loss season. I love it!!!

11-12-2006, 12:02 PM	#13
CMH Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,057	Despite his offensive production, I'm still a bit surprised that Ramirez will command so much in the open market.

11-12-2006, 02:15 PM	#20
Jordan All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Chi Suburbs now... Posts: 1,991	I reeeeeealllly hope he resigns. I call my self a fairweather Cubs fan because they aren't the only team I have allegiances with. And the fact that it's my city. If he's gone, they won't win 60 games.